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  • oopsie daisy

    From August Abolins@2:221/360 to All on Sat May 30 02:32:44 2020

    (:

    ˙snɹıΛ ɹǝʇɹǝʌuI ǝɥʇ ʎq pǝʇɔǝɟuı uǝǝq sɐɥ uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ

    ¡H∀H∀H∀H ¿uop ǝpısdn pɐǝɹ noʎ uɐϽ



    --

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Sat May 30 10:54:42 2020
    Hello August,

    On Saturday May 30 2020 02:32, you wrote to All:


    (:

    ˙snɹıΛ ɹǝʇɹǝʌuI ǝɥʇ ʎq pǝʇɔǝɟuı uǝǝq sɐɥ uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ

    ¡H∀H∀H∀H ¿uop ǝpısdn pɐǝɹ noʎ uɐϽ

    Hmmm, most of the characters are just the little squares indicating my system does not support the glyphs in question...

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
    * Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)
  • From Michael Dukelsky@2:5020/1042.3 to August Abolins on Sat May 30 09:14:52 2020
    Hello August Abolins!

    30 May 20 02:32:44, August Abolins wrote to All:


    (:

    ˙snɹıΛ ɹǝʇɹǝʌuI ǝɥʇ ʎq pǝʇɔǝɟuı uǝǝq sɐɥ
    uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ

    ¡H∀H∀H∀H ¿uop ǝpısdn pɐǝɹ noʎ uɐϽ

    After turning upside down your message looked this way: http://pics.rsh.ru/img/upside_down_k63qzi3w.png

    Almost perfect. It is strange that gossiped swallowed two characters of "Can".

    Michael


    --- gossipEd-linux/amd64 2.0.3-50-13c584e8
    * Origin: Пожилой фидошник (2:5020/1042.3)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to August Abolins on Sat May 30 14:09:21 2020
    Hello, August Abolins.
    On 30/05/2020 2.32 you wrote:

    (:
    ˙snɹıΛ ɹǝʇɹǝʌuI ǝɥʇ ʎq pǝʇɔǝɟuı uǝǝq sɐɥ
    uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ
    ¡H∀H∀H∀H ¿u�op ǝpısdn pɐǝɹ noʎ uɐϽ
    --

    !looC

    Looks almost ok in Hotdoged, only the w in the word "down" is not w.


    --
    Tommi

    --- HotdogEd/2.13.5 (Android; Google Android; rv:1) Hotdoged/1587085792000 HotdogEd/2.13.5
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat May 30 09:55:35 2020
    Re: oopsie daisy
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to August Abolins on Sat May 30 2020 10:54:42


    MvdV> Hmmm, most of the characters are just the little squares indicating
    MvdV> my system does not support the glyphs in question...

    they don't quote properly with this editor but in the reader, everything showed up quite properly except for the upside down 'w'... but i'm in a konsole terminal ssh'd into my BBS reading/replying live and 'online'...

    TERM=xterm
    LANG=en_US.UTF-8

    apparently i'm also using the "Monospace" font out of some 26 fonts available... all of which appear to be monospace format...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tommi Koivula on Sat May 30 19:17:53 2020
    On 5/30/2020 7:09 AM, between "Tommi Koivula : August Abolins":

    (:
    ˙snɹıΛ ɹǝʇɹǝʌuI ǝɥʇ ʎq pǝʇɔǝɟuı uǝǝq sɐɥ
    uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ
    ¡H∀H∀H∀H ¿u�op ǝpısdn pɐǝɹ noʎ uɐϽ
    --

    !looC

    ¡ןooϽ



    Looks almost ok in Hotdoged, only the w in the word "down" is not w.

    Yeah.. I noticed that when the message got saved. Is that because of TB's limitation at "UTF-8 4" and not supporting "UTF-8 16" ?


    Meanwhile, simple hack:

    ¡H∀H∀H∀H ¿umop ǝpısdn pɐǝɹ noʎ uɐϽ


    UTF-8 is revealing many possibilities.

    Oopsie daisy version:

    ˙sǝıʇıןıqıssod ʎuɐɯ ƃuıןɐǝʌǝɹ sı 8-Ⅎ⊥∩

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sat May 30 19:28:42 2020
    On 5/30/2020 4:54 AM, between "Michiel van der Vlist : August Abolins":

    ¡H∀H∀H∀H ¿u�op ǝpısdn pɐǝɹ noʎ uɐϽ

    MvdV>
    MvdV> Hmmm, most of the characters are just the little squares
    MvdV> indicating my system does not support the glyphs in question...

    I cheated. Your UTF-8 project assumes or is limited to language text.

    But why not go the distance? <G>

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Michael Dukelsky on Sat May 30 19:34:13 2020
    On 5/30/2020 2:14 AM, between "Michael Dukelsky : August Abolins":

    After turning upside down your message looked this way: http://pics.rsh.ru/img/upside_down_k63qzi3w.png

    LOL!

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Sun May 31 14:48:41 2020
    Hello August,

    On Saturday May 30 2020 19:28, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> Hmmm, most of the characters are just the little squares
    MvdV>> indicating my system does not support the glyphs in question...

    I cheated. Your UTF-8 project assumes or is limited to language text.

    In what way did you cheat? You have to explain. Also I am not sure what you mean by "language text". Fidonet is about text messages isn't it?

    But why not go the distance? <G>

    Please elaborate...

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Sun May 31 15:21:45 2020
    Hello August,



    Yeah.. I noticed that when the message got saved. Is that because of
    TB's limitation at "UTF-8 4" and not supporting "UTF-8 16" ?

    UTF-8 16? Do you mean UTF16?

    UTF16 is not usable in Fidonet as a UTF16 sequence often contains NULL bytes and the NULL byte (00)is used in Fidonet to signal the end of the mesaage text.

    Oopsie daisy version:

    ˙sǝıʇıןıqıssod ʎuɐɯ ƃuıןɐǝʌǝɹ sı 8-Ⅎ⊥∩

    Hé now I see it upside down! (32bit Windows version of Vi)


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20110320
    * Origin: Blijf Tønijn (2:280/5555)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun May 31 17:09:18 2020
    On 5/31/2020 9:21 AM, between "Michiel van der Vlist : August Abolins":

    AA>> Yeah.. I noticed that when the message got saved. Is that because of
    AA>> TB's limitation at "UTF-8 4" and not supporting "UTF-8 16" ?

    MvdV>
    MvdV> UTF-8 16? Do you mean UTF16?

    I was referring to something that I vaguely remembered when someone here mentioned that the charset kludge that Thunderbird was using here was incorrect as "utf-8 2". And I even remembered THAT wrong and wrote "UTF-8 4" in my message. :(


    MvdV> UTF16 is not usable in Fidonet as a UTF16 sequence often contains
    MvdV> NULL bytes and the NULL byte (00)is used in Fidonet to signal the end MvdV> of the mesaage text.

    Ah.. Good to know. UTF-8 is good enough.


    AA>> ˙sǝıʇıןıqıssod ʎuɐɯ ƃuıןɐǝʌǝɹ sı 8-Ⅎ⊥∩

    MvdV>
    MvdV> Hé now I see it upside down! (32bit Windows version of Vi)

    As long as my little foray into the upside down world is still allowed, then good!

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun May 31 17:47:03 2020
    On 5/31/2020 8:48 AM, between "Michiel van der Vlist : August Abolins":

    I cheated. Your UTF-8 project assumes or is limited to
    language text.

    MvdV> In what way did you cheat? You have to explain. Also I am
    MvdV> not sure what you mean by "language text". Fidonet is
    MvdV> about text messages isn't it?

    I had the impression that maybe I was venturing into forbidden territory using glyphs instead of readable (right-side up) text chars.


    But why not go the distance? <G>

    MvdV> Please elaborate...

    I dunno.. I was thinking of art using UTF-8 characters. Although we can't all be fluent in the many languages that can be represented with UTF-8, maybe some artwork could turn up the notch.

    ) ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) :)



    --
    Daudz baltu dieniņu, Laimiņa dodi, Diženi raženi, Dzīvojoti!

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Sun May 31 23:55:18 2020
    Hello August,

    On Sunday May 31 2020 17:47, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> In what way did you cheat? You have to explain. Also I am
    MvdV>> not sure what you mean by "language text". Fidonet is
    MvdV>> about text messages isn't it?

    I had the impression that maybe I was venturing into forbidden
    territory using glyphs instead of readable (right-side up) text chars.

    I see... Let me consult the moderator... standby...

    Moderator says: Topic: The UTF-8 character encoding scheme and all that comes with it.

    Playing around with "funny" UTF-8 is covered by "all that comes with it", so no prob. ;-)

    MvdV>> Please elaborate...

    I dunno.. I was thinking of art using UTF-8 characters.

    Unlike before, we have to make the distinction between the character set and the encoding. With Morse, Baudot, EBCDIC and ASCII, there is no difference, the encoding and the character set are one and the same. But with Unicode there is a difference. Unicode uses the Universal Character Set. (UCS). Presently it covers some 144,000 characters. These are identified by a code point: U+xyzzyy where xyzzyy is a hexadecimal number up to 110000.

    There is only one Unicode character set.

    But there is more than one encoding. The most popular encoding method is UTF-8. There is also UTF-16 and UTF-32. Both are unsuitable for use in Fidonet because of the "NULL issue". There is UTF-7 designed for use over 7 bit channels. Mostly obsolete because 7 bit channels are mostly obsolete. Inefficient for Fidonet because Fidonet is 8 bit transparant. Even more obsure are GB18030, BOCU and SCSU.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode

    Although we can't all be fluent in the many languages that can be represented with UTF-8, maybe some artwork could turn up the notch.

    We will see...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)