Hi,

Poincare gives an interesting insight, mostly forgotten,
that the last 100 years brought us a new logic:

Science and method
by Poincaré, Henri, 1854-1912 https://archive.org/details/sciencemethod00poinuoft/page/n3/mode/2up

His struggle starts at page 160, The New Logics.
Similar Einstein was New Mechanics for him.

So what are NEW and OLD logic:

- NEW Logic: The Logic for the Past Atom Age
The new logic is basically a logic that allows to
formalize the real numbers, for example via set theory.
It was judged so important that the whole education
underwent a transformation:

One of the motives was the Sputnik shock, as a result
of which there was a great need to catch up
educationally in the West.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neue_Mathematik

- OLD Logic: The Logic for the Coming Artificial Age
The old logic is basically Aristotelian Begriffslogik.
Bis zum 19. Jahrhundert war es die dominante Tradition.
Die Logiker für eine solche Logik waren mehr Grammatiker
und Wissensimgenieure, und weniger Mathematiker die der
Physik zugedient haben.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begriffslogik

LLMs give a new spin on OLD Logic, which has sent
shockwaves into hardcore NEW Logic proponents
as a means for Begriffslogik. Especially the use of
of less formal means based on natural language itself,

which was somehow seen as a problem, could be a solution:

Modern ontologies:
• Philosophers have debated the foundations for centuries.
• They emphasize technical terms defined in logic.
• But people talk. write. and think in natural languages (NLs).
• Any distinctions not represented in NLs tend to be ignored.

The Great Debate between John Sowa and Barry Smith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhYaTW5MK_U

Bye


Mild Shock schrieb:

Poincare had quite some problems with the
formal revolution that took place as well
in the last 100 or more years, starting with

things like naive set theory and its antinomies,
ending with computer formalized proofs of the Keppler
packing nowadays. He wrote a lengthy book:

Science and method
by Poincaré, Henri, 1854-1912 https://archive.org/details/sciencemethod00poinuoft/page/n3/mode/2up

His struggle starts at page 160, The New Logics.
Similar Einstein was New Mechanics for him.
Mostlikely Poincaré nowadays would be a form of

Sabine Hossenfelder with 100 YouTube videos and
possibly many followers. Poincaré faced the
destiny of any old fart that became irrelevant

over the time and turned into a commentator.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

The stance of LLMs towards ontology is a little
special. Asking OpenAI it tells me that LLMs can
behave as follows:

- Interpret Ontologies: Given descriptions or
structured data from ontologies, they can
understand and process relationships,
classes, and properties.

- Generate Ontology Components: They can help draft
classes, properties, or rules for ontologies when
provided with a domain description or examples.

- Explain Ontologies: They can interpret and explain
the structure and intent of an ontology for end-users.

I know at least of one project that tries to tap into
that, especially inputing a natural language text and
asking description components. The expected problems
are hallucination, informality and rigidity.

But since our whole education system is mainly based
on NEW Logic and not OLD Logic, which is somehow
tacitly assumed. And since LLMs have quite some grass
root dynamics, with YouTube videos platforms having

replaced the academic discussion forums and are now
influencing the terminology in the domain. The whole
matter feels like a bad joke, like waking up in a
Keeping Up with the Kardashians comedy.

Just like here:

A New Lexicon and Its Implications https://www.computer.org/csdl/magazine/it/2024/05/10754993/21THeGJDXUI

Bye

A New Lexicon and Its Implications https://www.computer.org/csdl/magazine/it/2024/05/10754993/21THeGJDXUI
FIGURE 5. Partial list of emergent generative AI terminology.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Poincare gives an interesting insight, mostly forgotten,
that the last 100 years brought us a new logic:

Science and method
by Poincaré, Henri, 1854-1912 https://archive.org/details/sciencemethod00poinuoft/page/n3/mode/2up

His struggle starts at page 160, The New Logics.
Similar Einstein was New Mechanics for him.

So what are NEW and OLD logic:

- NEW Logic: The Logic for the Past Atom Age
  The new logic is basically a logic that allows to
  formalize the real numbers, for example via set theory.
  It was judged so important that the whole education
  underwent a transformation:

One of the motives was the Sputnik shock, as a result
of which there was a great need to catch up
educationally in the West.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neue_Mathematik

- OLD Logic: The Logic for the Coming Artificial Age
  The old logic is basically Aristotelian Begriffslogik.
  Bis zum 19. Jahrhundert war es die dominante Tradition.
  Die Logiker für eine solche Logik waren mehr Grammatiker
  und Wissensimgenieure, und weniger Mathematiker die der
  Physik zugedient haben.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begriffslogik

LLMs give a new spin on OLD Logic, which has sent
shockwaves into hardcore NEW Logic proponents
as a means for Begriffslogik. Especially the use of
of less formal means based on natural language itself,

which was somehow seen as a problem, could be a solution:

Modern ontologies:
•    Philosophers have debated the foundations for centuries.
•    They emphasize technical terms defined in logic.
•    But people talk. write. and think in natural languages (NLs). •    Any distinctions not represented in NLs tend to be ignored.

The Great Debate between John Sowa and Barry Smith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhYaTW5MK_U

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Poincare had quite some problems with the
formal revolution that took place as well
in the last 100 or more years, starting with

things like naive set theory and its antinomies,
ending with computer formalized proofs of the Keppler
packing nowadays. He wrote a lengthy book:

Science and method
by Poincaré, Henri, 1854-1912
https://archive.org/details/sciencemethod00poinuoft/page/n3/mode/2up

His struggle starts at page 160, The New Logics.
Similar Einstein was New Mechanics for him.
Mostlikely Poincaré nowadays would be a form of

Sabine Hossenfelder with 100 YouTube videos and
possibly many followers. Poincaré faced the
destiny of any old fart that became irrelevant

over the time and turned into a commentator.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)