• should the group be archived?

    From jfmc@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 11 01:51:56 2022
    Hi everyone.

    Is there any way to fix the spam problem in this group?

    It makes it completely unusable and hides all the interesting discussions that happened in the past.

    What is the recommended forum for (multi-system) Prolog discussions nowadays?

    Cheers,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mostowski Collapse@21:1/5 to jfmc on Thu Aug 11 06:53:37 2022
    Hi,

    There was a ISO Prolog (core) standard mailing list in the
    past. Isn't ISO Prolg aimed at "multi-system". Whats your
    definition of "multi-system"?

    A forum where multiple Prolog systems are represented?
    But sometimes I have the feeling that SWI-Prolog thinks
    that it is some standard, when I read:

    Making ProB Compatible with SWI-Prolog https://www.doi.org/10.1017/S1471068422000230

    But then now SWI-Prolog isn't really a friend of
    Ciao Prolog anymore, I see on Twitter:
    thank you for these great suggestions!

    looks like ciao-lang online is an even better
    fit than swish with has an overly complex UI https://twitter.com/rzeta0/status/1557288636315484160

    LoL, how much popcorn should I order?
    The next years will be really fun!

    Bye

    jfmc schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 10:51:57 UTC+2:
    Hi everyone.

    Is there any way to fix the spam problem in this group?

    It makes it completely unusable and hides all the interesting discussions that happened in the past.

    What is the recommended forum for (multi-system) Prolog discussions nowadays?

    Cheers,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From A. K.@21:1/5 to jfmc on Sat Oct 29 07:53:12 2022
    jfmc schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 10:51:57 UTC+2:
    Hi everyone.

    Is there any way to fix the spam problem in this group?

    It makes it completely unusable and hides all the interesting discussions that happened in the past.

    What is the recommended forum for (multi-system) Prolog discussions nowadays?

    Cheers,

    Group should be closed. And open a write-only group for top spammer burs..
    Or just rename the bin for him.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mostowski Collapse@21:1/5 to Mostowski Collapse on Sat Oct 29 12:02:36 2022
    Does Mini Forth have partial strings? Looks like Scryer
    Prolog is currently keeping itself busy with partial strings
    for weeks and months.

    ?- read(T).
    [a|b].
    thread 'main' panicked at 'internal error: entered unreachable code', src/machine/machine_state_impl.rs:871:25
    note: run with `RUST_BACKTRACE=1` environment variable to display a backtrace read/1 crash #1627
    https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/issues/1627

    Quite amazing. So this idea by Ulrich Neumerkel has not
    yet lead to a stable Scryer Prolog? Whats insurmountable
    difficulty for partial strings?

    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 20:47:13 UTC+2:
    I think this project is dead, when was the last commit:

    andrewtholt committed Mar 9, 2015
    https://github.com/andrewtholt/minforth

    Envy a comp.lang.prolog that isn't dead?

    A. K. schrieb:
    jfmc schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 10:51:57 UTC+2:
    Hi everyone.

    Is there any way to fix the spam problem in this group?

    It makes it completely unusable and hides all the interesting discussions that happened in the past.

    What is the recommended forum for (multi-system) Prolog discussions nowadays?

    Cheers,

    Group should be closed. And open a write-only group for top spammer burs.. Or just rename the bin for him.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mostowski Collapse@21:1/5 to A. K. on Sat Oct 29 20:47:11 2022
    I think this project is dead, when was the last commit:

    andrewtholt committed Mar 9, 2015
    https://github.com/andrewtholt/minforth

    Envy a comp.lang.prolog that isn't dead?

    A. K. schrieb:
    jfmc schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 10:51:57 UTC+2:
    Hi everyone.

    Is there any way to fix the spam problem in this group?

    It makes it completely unusable and hides all the interesting discussions that happened in the past.

    What is the recommended forum for (multi-system) Prolog discussions nowadays?

    Cheers,

    Group should be closed. And open a write-only group for top spammer burs..
    Or just rename the bin for him.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mostowski Collapse@21:1/5 to Mostowski Collapse on Sat Oct 29 12:10:08 2022
    Aren't partial strings base on chars just simple pattern
    matching. You only need to pattern match two cases:

    [c1,..,cn]

    [c1,..,cn|X]

    Where c1,..,cn are chars and X is a variable. Its just
    as easy as this proposal here:

    Feature request indirect implementation of new built-ins #68
    I think detection and dedicated compilation of the
    following pattern would solve the issue:
    Expr /\ (1 << N)
    https://github.com/trealla-prolog/trealla/issues/68

    Partial strings is only detection and dedicated compilation of
    two patterns, still it takes already years to make Scryer Prolog
    stable. What would happen if Scryer Prolog would

    implement getbit/2 this way? Would this ever work?
    Maybe they use the wrong framework for their interpreter
    and compiler building? A framework that has what

    kind of disadvantage? I don't know. What is the inherent
    problem that detection and dedicated compilation becomes
    a wall of problems. A big big wall, a kind of columb-wall

    that might an outside believe, its an inpenetrable wall? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb_barrier

    LMAO!

    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 21:02:38 UTC+2:
    Does Mini Forth have partial strings? Looks like Scryer
    Prolog is currently keeping itself busy with partial strings
    for weeks and months.

    ?- read(T).
    [a|b].
    thread 'main' panicked at 'internal error: entered unreachable code', src/machine/machine_state_impl.rs:871:25
    note: run with `RUST_BACKTRACE=1` environment variable to display a backtrace read/1 crash #1627
    https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/issues/1627

    Quite amazing. So this idea by Ulrich Neumerkel has not
    yet lead to a stable Scryer Prolog? Whats insurmountable
    difficulty for partial strings?
    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 20:47:13 UTC+2:
    I think this project is dead, when was the last commit:

    andrewtholt committed Mar 9, 2015
    https://github.com/andrewtholt/minforth

    Envy a comp.lang.prolog that isn't dead?

    A. K. schrieb:
    jfmc schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 10:51:57 UTC+2:
    Hi everyone.

    Is there any way to fix the spam problem in this group?

    It makes it completely unusable and hides all the interesting discussions that happened in the past.

    What is the recommended forum for (multi-system) Prolog discussions nowadays?

    Cheers,

    Group should be closed. And open a write-only group for top spammer burs..
    Or just rename the bin for him.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mostowski Collapse@21:1/5 to Mostowski Collapse on Sat Oct 29 12:24:51 2022
    I do not have a lot of CI/CD on my side, but I have a new
    test case runner, which can show multi column test results
    side by side, test results that come from different sources.

    I already use it to show test results from these 3 systems
    side by side. It was quite some work over the last 10 days
    to mirgate formerly Jekejeke Prolog to the new testing framework:

    1. Dogelog Player JavaScript [column name "js"]
    2. Dogelog Player Python [column name "py"]
    3. Formerly Jekejeke Prolog [column name "j"]

    The new testing framework is ultra simple and 100% written
    in Prolog. It requires a very minimal subset of Prolog. Mabye
    will add further columns in the near future, like

    a SWI-Prolog column or a Trealla Prolog column. The
    Logtalk Testing Framework is probably a dead horse. Its
    the opposite of minimal, if you first need Logtalk to

    test Prolog systems. Its one more Lognonsense. I am
    also phasing out the old formerly Jekejeke Prolog testing
    framework. Its already phased out concerning test results

    itself, what survies so far is a coverage tool. But sooner
    or later this tool will also go, and be replaced by something
    simpler. Also the beautifer should be replaced.

    P.S.: Here are the current results, you see columns "js",
    "py" and "j", its split over two test suites:

    http://pages.xlog.ch/littab/doclet/docs/10_samples/04_doge_comply/reference_result/package.html

    http://pages.xlog.ch/littab/doclet/docs/10_samples/04_doge_comply/frequent_result/package.html

    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 21:18:34 UTC+2:
    There is a lot of experimenting how to increase quality
    assurance of Scryer Prolog. Of course continous integration (CI)
    and continuous deployment (CD) could be key, especially

    if you have a setup as in Scryer Prolog with many experts to
    few programmers. There are like a dozend experts swirling
    around and only very few programmers. So these experts

    even don't have local forks, or could do some bug fixing
    by themselves, which would be much more efficient. So they
    need to communicate bugs and wait for new release and

    do retesting, and communicate findings again. Very slow
    process and not very effective because problem solving
    pairs are separated. Its not that the same engineer indentifies

    and fixes a problem. Here is what they are struggling with:

    GitHub runners bla bla
    https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/discussions/966
    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 21:10:09 UTC+2:
    Aren't partial strings base on chars just simple pattern
    matching. You only need to pattern match two cases:

    [c1,..,cn]

    [c1,..,cn|X]

    Where c1,..,cn are chars and X is a variable. Its just
    as easy as this proposal here:

    Feature request indirect implementation of new built-ins #68
    I think detection and dedicated compilation of the
    following pattern would solve the issue:
    Expr /\ (1 << N)
    https://github.com/trealla-prolog/trealla/issues/68

    Partial strings is only detection and dedicated compilation of
    two patterns, still it takes already years to make Scryer Prolog
    stable. What would happen if Scryer Prolog would

    implement getbit/2 this way? Would this ever work?
    Maybe they use the wrong framework for their interpreter
    and compiler building? A framework that has what

    kind of disadvantage? I don't know. What is the inherent
    problem that detection and dedicated compilation becomes
    a wall of problems. A big big wall, a kind of columb-wall

    that might an outside believe, its an inpenetrable wall? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb_barrier

    LMAO!
    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 21:02:38 UTC+2:
    Does Mini Forth have partial strings? Looks like Scryer
    Prolog is currently keeping itself busy with partial strings
    for weeks and months.

    ?- read(T).
    [a|b].
    thread 'main' panicked at 'internal error: entered unreachable code', src/machine/machine_state_impl.rs:871:25
    note: run with `RUST_BACKTRACE=1` environment variable to display a backtrace
    read/1 crash #1627
    https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/issues/1627

    Quite amazing. So this idea by Ulrich Neumerkel has not
    yet lead to a stable Scryer Prolog? Whats insurmountable
    difficulty for partial strings?
    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 20:47:13 UTC+2:
    I think this project is dead, when was the last commit:

    andrewtholt committed Mar 9, 2015 https://github.com/andrewtholt/minforth

    Envy a comp.lang.prolog that isn't dead?

    A. K. schrieb:
    jfmc schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 10:51:57 UTC+2:
    Hi everyone.

    Is there any way to fix the spam problem in this group?

    It makes it completely unusable and hides all the interesting discussions that happened in the past.

    What is the recommended forum for (multi-system) Prolog discussions nowadays?

    Cheers,

    Group should be closed. And open a write-only group for top spammer burs..
    Or just rename the bin for him.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mostowski Collapse@21:1/5 to Mostowski Collapse on Sat Oct 29 12:18:32 2022
    There is a lot of experimenting how to increase quality
    assurance of Scryer Prolog. Of course continous integration (CI)
    and continuous deployment (CD) could be key, especially

    if you have a setup as in Scryer Prolog with many experts to
    few programmers. There are like a dozend experts swirling
    around and only very few programmers. So these experts

    even don't have local forks, or could do some bug fixing
    by themselves, which would be much more efficient. So they
    need to communicate bugs and wait for new release and

    do retesting, and communicate findings again. Very slow
    process and not very effective because problem solving
    pairs are separated. Its not that the same engineer indentifies

    and fixes a problem. Here is what they are struggling with:

    GitHub runners bla bla
    https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/discussions/966

    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 21:10:09 UTC+2:
    Aren't partial strings base on chars just simple pattern
    matching. You only need to pattern match two cases:

    [c1,..,cn]

    [c1,..,cn|X]

    Where c1,..,cn are chars and X is a variable. Its just
    as easy as this proposal here:

    Feature request indirect implementation of new built-ins #68
    I think detection and dedicated compilation of the
    following pattern would solve the issue:
    Expr /\ (1 << N)
    https://github.com/trealla-prolog/trealla/issues/68

    Partial strings is only detection and dedicated compilation of
    two patterns, still it takes already years to make Scryer Prolog
    stable. What would happen if Scryer Prolog would

    implement getbit/2 this way? Would this ever work?
    Maybe they use the wrong framework for their interpreter
    and compiler building? A framework that has what

    kind of disadvantage? I don't know. What is the inherent
    problem that detection and dedicated compilation becomes
    a wall of problems. A big big wall, a kind of columb-wall

    that might an outside believe, its an inpenetrable wall? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb_barrier

    LMAO!
    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 21:02:38 UTC+2:
    Does Mini Forth have partial strings? Looks like Scryer
    Prolog is currently keeping itself busy with partial strings
    for weeks and months.

    ?- read(T).
    [a|b].
    thread 'main' panicked at 'internal error: entered unreachable code', src/machine/machine_state_impl.rs:871:25
    note: run with `RUST_BACKTRACE=1` environment variable to display a backtrace
    read/1 crash #1627
    https://github.com/mthom/scryer-prolog/issues/1627

    Quite amazing. So this idea by Ulrich Neumerkel has not
    yet lead to a stable Scryer Prolog? Whats insurmountable
    difficulty for partial strings?
    Mostowski Collapse schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 20:47:13 UTC+2:
    I think this project is dead, when was the last commit:

    andrewtholt committed Mar 9, 2015
    https://github.com/andrewtholt/minforth

    Envy a comp.lang.prolog that isn't dead?

    A. K. schrieb:
    jfmc schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. August 2022 um 10:51:57 UTC+2:
    Hi everyone.

    Is there any way to fix the spam problem in this group?

    It makes it completely unusable and hides all the interesting discussions that happened in the past.

    What is the recommended forum for (multi-system) Prolog discussions nowadays?

    Cheers,

    Group should be closed. And open a write-only group for top spammer burs..
    Or just rename the bin for him.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)