• Why The US =?UTF-8?B?RG9lc27igJl0?= Stand A Chance

    From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 20 04:59:16 2025
    So, North Mexico’s new President wants to bring more high-tech
    manufacturing back to his country, instead of relying on the advanced
    skills of those pesky Asians.

    Unfortunately, that won’t be so easy <https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/building-a-chipmaking-fab-in-the-us-costs-twice-as-much-takes-twice-as-long-as-in-taiwan>.
    The Taiwanese can get a new chip fab built in half the time it takes
    in the USA. Anybody can get it built quicker than the USA. Even those
    backward, Socialist Europeans can do it a little bit quicker than the
    USA.

    Maybe President Musk can hire in those Taiwanese fab-building firms to
    get his efforts started. And if he’s nice to them, maybe they will
    explain in simple terms to the locals, how, if they work and study
    hard, and try to get to grips with these things called “maths” and “science” instead of running away from them, they can, maybe someday, aspire to do this sort of thing on their own.

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to ldo@nz.invalid on Thu Feb 20 21:58:34 2025
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    So, North Mexico’s new President wants to bring more high-tech >manufacturing back to his country, instead of relying on the advanced
    skills of those pesky Asians.

    Unfortunately, that won’t be so easy ><https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/building-a-chipmaking-fab-in-the-us-costs-twice-as-much-takes-twice-as-long-as-in-taiwan>.
    The Taiwanese can get a new chip fab built in half the time it takes
    in the USA. Anybody can get it built quicker than the USA. Even those >backward, Socialist Europeans can do it a little bit quicker than the
    USA.

    This is because there aren't many fabs in the US. When there are a lot of
    big industrial operations of some sort, it's far easier and cheaper to
    buy and set up related manufacturing hardware in that place.

    I live near a large shipyard. I can get huge mills and drills for very
    cheap on the surplus market. If I wanted to set up a company making
    heavy machinery, I would be able to do it pretty well. But PC board fab hardware is nowhere to be seen here.

    There are some small fabs in Silicon Valley that are running 3" wafers
    using equipment like Intel was using in the seventies. That can be very profitable in a small niche market. But expanding out of that niche
    market isn't easy since the next step up requires machinery that you
    don't find on the used market in Silicon Valley... you'd need to go to
    Taiwan or Korea for it. You run out of resist in a small job shop in
    Taiwan, you borrow some from the next guy down the street. You can't
    do that in Silicon Valley so easily any more because the density of
    fab businesses is so much lower.

    You don't START by building a state of the art nanometer fab. You start
    by making cheap opamps and TTL glue chips and once you have that down you
    work up. But you want to do that in a place where there is surplus hardware, readily available supplies, and local expertise. Attempts to start at the
    top invariably end in failure too.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Fri Feb 21 08:57:19 2025
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    You don't START by building a state of the art nanometer fab. You start
    by making cheap opamps and TTL glue chips and once you have that down you work up.

    I think the USA never left that space. Texas Instruments has six
    fabs in the USA, oldest built in 1966 and newest in 2022. That
    said, they've also got one in China and last time I bought from
    them (directly) the parcel came from Shanghai.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

    But you want to do that in a place where there is surplus hardware,
    readily available supplies, and local expertise. Attempts to start at the top invariably end in failure too.

    Intel appear to have a lot of fabs in the USA already "at the top"
    in terms of nm. But then we keep hearing that they're about to go
    broke, so maybe that's part of their problem (or it's what Trump's
    about to change?).

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  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to Computer Nerd Kev on Fri Feb 21 09:01:08 2025
    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    I think the USA never left that space. Texas Instruments has six
    fabs in the USA

    Make that eight, I missed the two they've purchased.

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