XPost: comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage

On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 13:25:51 -0500, Paul wrote:

The 8TB drive is 3.5".

The power requirements are 12V for motor, 5V for logic.

3.5" drives are available up to 14TB or so in capacity
(at least, at your nearest retailer you might find them).
Some of the larger ones than that, are only intended
for data centers (host managed versus drive managed).

The 5TB drive is a 2.5". It's the largest 2.5"
they make. It runs off 5V only. 5V for motor, 5V for logic.
Generally 2.5" drives try to draw no more than 1 ampere,
and this occurs during spinup. The current consumed on
the small 15mm tall 2.5" drives, drops back once they're
up to speed.

The 2.5" drives come in a variety of heights. 7mm & 9.5mm
is useful in a laptop. The laptop bay is not big
enough to support 15mm drives. The 15mm drives were
made specifically for usage in portable external
enclosures. It's also why you don't tend to find
much information on 15mm ones, since they're not
intended to be sold as "raw" drives at retail.
As they don't fit in laptops, and nobody wants
a steady stream of customers bringing raw 15mm
drives back for a refund because they don't fit.

External drives have a USB connector. Some drives used
in such devices, the USB connector is part of the drive,
and the drive cannot be "shucked" and removed for usage
inside a SATA computer. Other external drives, there is a
separate controller board which converts SATA protocol
to USB protocol. Those sorts of drives can be taken
apart and the disk reused. It's possible the 8TB Seagate
mentioned, a 3.5", can be removed from the enclosure and
reused. The warranty is likely void if the drive is
used in this way (outside of its housing). Running the
drive serial number on the warranty page, will show the
drive itself in the bare state, has no warranty. The number
on the housing could indicate a valid warranty exists for
the entire item.

Paul

Hi Paul,

Regarding
o 5TB Costco Item #3005555 P/N 2R2AY1-570 (STHP5000600 on sticker)
o 8TB Costco Item #8888881 P/N 1XAAY5-570 (STEL800401 on sticker)

Here are photos I just snapped for you of the two Costco drives:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/MpjQMNM7/hdd01.jpg> size & weight difference
o <https://i.postimg.cc/5tdFwgLZ/hdd02.jpg> Costco packaging
o <https://i.postimg.cc/76XGrydk/hdd03.jpg> Model numbers

Thanks for that purposefully helpful information where I must comment that
the sheer physical size & weight difference of these two Seagate devices is immense.
o The 5TB Seagate drive weighs a puny 7 1/4 ounces all alone
o The 8TB Seagate drive weighs a whopping 30 1/2 ounces all alone
<https://i.postimg.cc/MpjQMNM7/hdd01.jpg>

Side by side the sheer physical size difference is also huge:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/5tdFwgLZ/hdd02.jpg>

These are the respective model numbers of the two hard drives:
o 8TB Seagate Backup Plus Hub P/N 1XAAP3-500 [aka Model SRD0PV1] 12VDC, 1A
o 12VDC 3.0A Schenzhen Honor Model ADS-40J-12 12036EPCU Switching Adapter
o 5TB Seagate Backup Plus Portable P/N 2R2APM-505
o <https://i.postimg.cc/76XGrydk/hdd03.jpg>

What I love about the 5TB is it doesn't require an additional 12VDC power supply, which means, I would think, perhaps, maybe, it's more likely to
work in a decade or so, but I'm not sure of the correct logic on that.

Which is more likely to work in a decade or two from now?

The 2.5" drives come in a variety of heights. 7mm & 9.5mm
is useful in a laptop. The laptop bay is not big
enough to support 15mm drives.

I do not know how tall the 5TB drive is, inside.

External drives have a USB connector. Some drives used
in such devices, the USB connector is part of the drive,
and the drive cannot be "shucked" and removed for usage
inside a SATA computer.

The possibility of being "shucked" makes a difference because we want this drive to work in a decade or two from now.

Running the
drive serial number on the warranty page, will show the
drive itself in the bare state, has no warranty. The number
on the housing could indicate a valid warranty exists for
the entire item.

1. I went to the Seagate warranty page
<https://www.seagate.com/support/warranty-and-replacements/>

2. I enter the 8-character serial number from the Costco sticker.

3. Your Product = Backup Plus Portable <== this is the 5TB
Model Number = STHP5000600
Serial Number = xxxxxxxx
Warranty Valid Until November 29, 2021

Your Product = Backup Plus HUB <== this is the 8TB
Model Number = STEL8000401
Serial Number = xxxxxxxx
Warranty Valid Until October 10, 2022

I'm not so much worried about warranty as I am the basic stone cold logic
of which drive is most likely to be still working a decade or two from now.
--
On Windows newsgroups everyone is always helpful even if we don't like M$.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 00:22:38 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:

Which is more likely to work in a decade or two from now?

Neither. Rotating drives wear out over time. So do SSDs. If an SSD is
not used much, it could last longer--but I would not rely on it.
Expect to replace any drive (with today's technology) within 5-7
years.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage

On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 08:12:02 -0600, jerryab@juno.com wrote:

Which is more likely to work in a decade or two from now?

Neither. Rotating drives wear out over time. So do SSDs. If an SSD is
not used much, it could last longer--but I would not rely on it.
Expect to replace any drive (with today's technology) within 5-7
years.

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for trying to help, where I apologize that _time_ is the issue.
o Not rotation time.

The drives will likely have fewer than 100 hours on them in 25 years.

While I completely understand your answer, you have to remember these
drives are _external_ drives, connected via USB, for _backup_ purposes.

Hence, rotation time isn't an issue in and of itself.
o Elapsed time is the issue (and technology changes).

Given how standards change, and the fact the 2.5 inch "portable" drive
isn't the same mechanics as the 3.5 inch "hub", and given SATA connections
and other changes over time, the question is simply one of how to choose between them.

I apologize for not being clear that rotation time is never the issue for backup drives (which are only connected once every few months, and even
then, for only a few hours at a time).

What matters is the technology changes that may likely occur over time, and
the reliability of the equipment over long periods of elapsed time in
storage.

I'm not so much worried about spinning time as I am the basic stone cold
logic of which drive is most likely to be still working a decade or two
from now after being stored (and while technology changes over time)?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 15:39:26 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> wrote:

The drives will likely have fewer than 100 hours on them in 25 years.

While I completely understand your answer, you have to remember these
drives are _external_ drives, connected via USB, for _backup_ purposes.

I understand your problem, and have handled such issues in the past.

While all the drives do not have much time in terms of power-on, they
ALL will have many years of decaying electrical components (such as
circuit boards, chips, and contacts)--which are required to make the
devices work. THAT is your real problem. And is the ONE problem you
have not addressed.

Plan to transfer the data every 5-7 years, from the old media to a new
media. The old stuff WILL be getting more fragile and subject to
failure as time passes, so you want to replace the DEVICE before it
fails--and renders the data stored on it irretrievable.

Banks are required to keep customer info for seven years after each transaction. So, they use microfilm and microfiche, not electronic
storage of any type. Courts are required to keep court records
forever. They mostly use paper. Their records go back over 100 yrs.

IMO, you need to think about what is needed vs what is cheap to do
today. If the data is not that important, then who cares? It may make
sense to subscribe to multiple online data storage and retrieval
services and let THEM worry about how to store it. That is why you pay
them. If they screw up, you can hold them responsible--unless their
TOS says they are NOT responsible. In which case, why does anyone use
them?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)