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  • HDDs (Re: FREE GAME: Ghostrunner)

    From Ant@21:1/5 to Dimensional Traveler on Sun Dec 31 22:25:39 2023
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    ...
    ah, another one I already have on Steam. and I felt no inclination of actually playing before.
    whatever, on my Epic account it goes.

    Another True Believer in the Way of the Number! Blessings be upon your
    hard drive Brother.

    Who still uses HDDs for modern PC gaming? :P
    --
    "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another. ... See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being, I tell you of them." --Isaiah 42:8-9. Dang h2o leaks again.
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  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to Ant on Sun Dec 31 17:16:43 2023
    On 12/31/23 16:25, Ant wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    ...
    ah, another one I already have on Steam. and I felt no inclination of
    actually playing before.
    whatever, on my Epic account it goes.

    Another True Believer in the Way of the Number! Blessings be upon your
    hard drive Brother.

    Who still uses HDDs for modern PC gaming? :P

    I'm sure there's some people stuck on an older laptop.
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Ant on Sun Dec 31 17:13:17 2023
    On 12/31/2023 2:25 PM, Ant wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    ...
    ah, another one I already have on Steam. and I felt no inclination of
    actually playing before.
    whatever, on my Epic account it goes.

    Another True Believer in the Way of the Number! Blessings be upon your
    hard drive Brother.

    Who still uses HDDs for modern PC gaming? :P

    Generic Hard Drive regardless of type, insect.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 1 09:13:27 2024
    On Sun, 31 Dec 2023 22:25:39 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Ant
    wrote:

    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    ...
    ah, another one I already have on Steam. and I felt no inclination of
    actually playing before.
    whatever, on my Epic account it goes.

    Another True Believer in the Way of the Number! Blessings be upon your
    hard drive Brother.

    Who still uses HDDs for modern PC gaming? :P

    I do. I only put the really big stuff with atrocious load times* on the
    NVMe drive. Also, it patches faster. The patching is the real reason for
    it if you looked at the footnote. So my entire Steam install is there.

    For games as large BG3, I have to leave about 200GB of empty on the SSD,
    in case it wants to do a full patch. I made the mistake of having less
    free space and it did the entire patch on the HDD and then _copied_ that
    to the SSD. Absolute pain.

    Everything else runs just fine off a modern HDD. No complaints at all.
    Even BG3 ran fine off my HDD, but the patches were unbearable. Otherwise,
    I don't know what you're tongue-wagging at. ;^P

    (Warning: that footer is *extensive*)

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten


    * (TL;DR - Small rant. SSDs don't really improve anything very much.
    Verified with a fast HDD. Lazy development has eaten every hardware
    advance since the IBM PC was released in the 80's. (*nom nom nom*))

    <rant>

    However, an SSD doesn't help the load times much; usually it's just badly written software. Civ V and VI are particularly bad at this. No matter
    how fast the drive, they still take an eternity to load. Since I game on
    HDD a lot, I've done the comparisons. It's the software, not transfer
    speed.

    At least SSDs have made on-the-fly loading a consideration --
    theoretically shortening loading screens -- but it worked fine on HDDs
    too (Rage). Somehow, developers are messing this up too (I'm looking at
    you BG3) and there's _still_ asset popping even _with_ an SSD. Again
    folks, for the best game experience load what assets need to be there to
    avoid popping. Use a loading screen or a clever elevator ride. THEN bring
    the game screen up and sideload everything else in-game. A side-loading
    stutter here or there is tolerable. Popping on screen reveal is just
    brutal. Is it so hard? It's the overall experience that matters, not the
    load times. My 2 cents.

    Talos Principle 2 does a nice job of this by loading its rather large
    assets during the transit from one zone to another. There are places
    where the tunnel goes completely black, and the HD spins up and you can't
    see the graphics skipping. I haven't tested this on HDD, but I bet it's
    pretty tolerable that way, too.

    Paying attention to the basic experience of the gamer provides much more performance quality -- both perceived and actual -- than SSDs. SSDs
    apparently have just inspired laziness in development. Most performance improvements over the years have inevitably been eaten up by abstraction
    layers and lazy coding. So now every game going forward will require them
    and the experience will still be lacking. Ugh.

    Pay attention to the experience people! Improved performance is not a
    gift to developers to slag off and write more inefficient code more
    quickly. I'm sick of PCs getting better and better and software
    performance feeling pretty much the same no matter how much power I have.

    </rant>

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  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Zaghadka on Mon Jan 1 09:58:57 2024
    On 1/1/2024 7:13 AM, Zaghadka wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Dec 2023 22:25:39 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Ant wrote:

    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    ...
    ah, another one I already have on Steam. and I felt no inclination of
    actually playing before.
    whatever, on my Epic account it goes.

    Another True Believer in the Way of the Number! Blessings be upon your
    hard drive Brother.

    Who still uses HDDs for modern PC gaming? :P

    I do. I only put the really big stuff with atrocious load times* on the
    NVMe drive. Also, it patches faster. The patching is the real reason for
    it if you looked at the footnote. So my entire Steam install is there.

    For games as large BG3, I have to leave about 200GB of empty on the SSD,
    in case it wants to do a full patch. I made the mistake of having less
    free space and it did the entire patch on the HDD and then _copied_ that
    to the SSD. Absolute pain.

    Everything else runs just fine off a modern HDD. No complaints at all.
    Even BG3 ran fine off my HDD, but the patches were unbearable. Otherwise,
    I don't know what you're tongue-wagging at. ;^P

    (Warning: that footer is *extensive*)

    * (TL;DR - Small rant. SSDs don't really improve anything very much. Verified with a fast HDD. Lazy development has eaten every hardware
    advance since the IBM PC was released in the 80's. (*nom nom nom*))

    <rant>

    However, an SSD doesn't help the load times much; usually it's just >
    badly
    written software. Civ V and VI are particularly bad at this. No matter
    how fast the drive, they still take an eternity to load. Since I game
    on
    HDD a lot, I've done the comparisons. It's the software, not transfer
    speed.

    At least SSDs have made on-the-fly loading a consideration --
    theoretically shortening loading screens -- but it worked fine on HDDs
    too (Rage). Somehow, developers are messing this up too (I'm looking
    at
    you BG3) and there's _still_ asset popping even _with_ an SSD. Again
    folks, for the best game experience load what assets need to be there
    to
    avoid popping. Use a loading screen or a clever elevator ride. THEN >
    bring
    the game screen up and sideload everything else in-game. A side-> > > loading
    stutter here or there is tolerable. Popping on screen reveal is just
    brutal. Is it so hard? It's the overall experience that matters, not
    the
    load times. My 2 cents.

    Talos Principle 2 does a nice job of this by loading its rather large
    assets during the transit from one zone to another. There are places
    where the tunnel goes completely black, and the HD spins up and you >
    can't
    see the graphics skipping. I haven't tested this on HDD, but I bet >
    it's
    pretty tolerable that way, too.

    Paying attention to the basic experience of the gamer provides much >
    more
    performance quality -- both perceived and actual -- than SSDs. SSDs apparently have just inspired laziness in development. Most > > > > > performance
    improvements over the years have inevitably been eaten up by > > > >
    abstraction
    layers and lazy coding. So now every game going forward will require
    them
    and the experience will still be lacking. Ugh.

    Pay attention to the experience people! Improved performance is not a
    gift to developers to slag off and write more inefficient code more
    quickly. I'm sick of PCs getting better and better and software
    performance feeling pretty much the same no matter how much power I >
    have.

    </rant>

    EXACTLY! And "Amen Brother!" Even on the few Steam game discussion
    boards I read there are regular mini-flame wars over this with
    developers and some users berating other users complaining about load
    times by demanding the game HAS to be put on a SSD. And then accusing
    players of lying or not having an "up to date" SSD when they point out
    that they have installed it on a SSD.


    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Xocyll@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 2 12:06:59 2024
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:

    On Sun, 31 Dec 2023 22:25:39 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    ...
    ah, another one I already have on Steam. and I felt no inclination of
    actually playing before.
    whatever, on my Epic account it goes.

    Another True Believer in the Way of the Number! Blessings be upon your
    hard drive Brother.

    Who still uses HDDs for modern PC gaming? :P

    I do... Although it depends on the game. Because a 6TB HDD is far less >expensive than the equivalently sized SSD, and many games - even the
    modern ones - don't actually require the performance of an SSD.

    That's not to say some games don't run better (or require) an SSD...
    but a lot of them don't, and for those games, I'm glad to have
    spinning rust. And for the games that do benefit... well, I have an
    SSD for them too.

    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed. Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,
    instructional videos for games dl'd in the past, text docs, entire web
    pages you saved to disc from way back when (game info or whatever) cause
    those web domains are since gone.

    So many things don't need an SSD, including a lot of older games, and/or modding stuff for said games.

    Which is why my new computer I built late summer has a 2TB SSD and a
    16TB spinning rust (like that term btw) drive.

    SSDs are just excuses for Devs to get lazy and not optimize, just as we
    got bloat when big drives became cheap.

    Xocyll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to Xocyll on Tue Jan 2 13:13:01 2024
    On Tue, 02 Jan 2024 12:06:59 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Xocyll wrote:

    SSDs are just excuses for Devs to get lazy and not optimize

    ^This

    Any performance increase immediately makes your machine screaming fast,
    until 6 months to a year later when lazy devs bollocks it up.

    New hardware is a software-impaired treadmill that only makes your old
    hardware run like crap. I'm pretty sick of it. I want my computer to run
    like it did when I first put an SSD in it, not this.

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to Xocyll on Tue Jan 2 17:22:16 2024
    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed. Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 2 17:27:11 2024
    On 1/2/2024 3:22 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed.   Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol

    You've never watching a horror movie where people are running screaming?

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to Dimensional Traveler on Wed Jan 3 17:08:50 2024
    On 1/2/24 19:27, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 1/2/2024 3:22 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed.   Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol

    You've never watching a horror movie where people are running screaming?

    I don't like horror movies much.
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 3 17:17:01 2024
    On 1/3/2024 3:08 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    On 1/2/24 19:27, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 1/2/2024 3:22 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed.   Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol

    You've never watching a horror movie where people are running screaming?

    I don't like horror movies much.

    Neither do I but I still know that's a trope.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ant@21:1/5 to Dimensional Traveler on Thu Jan 4 04:58:39 2024
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    On 1/3/2024 3:08 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    On 1/2/24 19:27, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 1/2/2024 3:22 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed.   Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol

    You've never watching a horror movie where people are running screaming?

    I don't like horror movies much.

    Neither do I but I still know that's a trope.

    Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!! /me runs.
    --
    "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven." --Hebrews 1:3. :) NY, but
    2024 isn't any better like in JP.
    Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
    / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
    | |o o| |
    \ _ /
    ( )

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  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to Ant on Thu Jan 4 00:02:55 2024
    On 1/3/24 22:58, Ant wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    On 1/3/2024 3:08 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    On 1/2/24 19:27, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 1/2/2024 3:22 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed.   Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol

    You've never watching a horror movie where people are running screaming? >>>
    I don't like horror movies much.

    Neither do I but I still know that's a trope.

    Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!! /me runs.

    *ant scuttles away
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Xocyll@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 12 06:54:33 2024
    candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> looked up from reading the entrails of
    the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed. Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol

    Basically playing any Judas Priest.

    Xocyll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Xocyll on Fri Jan 12 08:17:12 2024
    On 1/12/2024 3:54 AM, Xocyll wrote:
    candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> looked up from reading the entrails of
    the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed. Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol

    Basically playing any Judas Priest.

    Oh, there are much "screamier" bands than Judas Priest.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Xocyll@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 13 14:59:44 2024
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> looked up from reading the
    entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:

    On 1/12/2024 3:54 AM, Xocyll wrote:
    candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> looked up from reading the entrails of
    the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed. Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol

    Basically playing any Judas Priest.

    Oh, there are much "screamier" bands than Judas Priest.

    Oh I'm aware, the difference is Judas Priest actually sing, vs the
    shrieking and bellowing of others.

    Xocyll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Xocyll on Sat Jan 13 12:49:06 2024
    On 1/13/2024 11:59 AM, Xocyll wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> looked up from reading the
    entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:

    On 1/12/2024 3:54 AM, Xocyll wrote:
    candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> looked up from reading the entrails of
    the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

    On 1/2/24 11:06, Xocyll wrote:
    <snip>
    Not to mention there are all the other things that don't require
    screaming speed. Music (mp3s you ripped before), music videos,

    Didn't know "screaming speed" was a stat lol

    Basically playing any Judas Priest.

    Oh, there are much "screamier" bands than Judas Priest.

    Oh I'm aware, the difference is Judas Priest actually sing, vs the
    shrieking and bellowing of others.

    Oooo, cynical. Keep practicing, you'll reach my level of cynicism soon
    enough. :D

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)