There's a trailer video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
There's a trailer video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
That looks really cool. Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.
I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2 it
was so long ago. This looks really good, but I'll wait until it's out
and reviewed by real people.
Am 10.06.24 um 02:06 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
I mean, I'd still rather the industry stop relying on old IPs as aI stopped playing doom after Doom 1...
crutch and create new stuff instead, but I can't deny/some/ interest
in this game. But the fact that it's yet-another-sequel does push it
back from instant 'must buy' to 'we'll see, maybe when its on sale or
part of HumbleBundle'.
I have not missed anything, YMMV, but for me this was a one time event
where a ton of things came together, but shooters are generally not my favorite kind of thing. I personally from a technical achievement would
rate Ultima Underworld and System Shock way higher, but Doom with its
nob brain shooter elements was longer lasting and spawned more or less
as initial explotion an entire genre of dumb shooters...
On 10/06/2024 01:43, Justisaur wrote:
On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
There's a trailer video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
That looks really cool. Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.
I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2
it was so long ago. This looks really good, but I'll wait until it's
out and reviewed by real people.
Doom is one of those games I've never really played. I missed it first
time around and did play a bit of one of the later versions, can't
remember which one, but I can't say the gameplay grabbed me.
Doom is one of those games I've never really played.
PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
Doom is one of those games I've never really played.
The music alone is reason enough to play Doom 1. Same with Descent 1 &
2, amazing soundtracks.
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
personally as they would like. :)
I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with Heretic then Doom.
Am 10.06.24 um 09:07 schrieb JAB:
On 10/06/2024 01:43, Justisaur wrote:The game, the original, when it came out was refreshing and new and
On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
There's a trailer video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
That looks really cool. Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.
I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2
it was so long ago. This looks really good, but I'll wait until it's
out and reviewed by real people.
Doom is one of those games I've never really played. I missed it first
time around and did play a bit of one of the later versions, can't
remember which one, but I can't say the gameplay grabbed me.
really hit a nerve
a ton of that had to do with the dark humor (chainsaw) and the music by
nine inch nails.
Technically the game shined with its fluid 3d but basically other games
were way more technically advanced. But braindead action itches a nerve
in many people and doom filled that void back then on the pc side
perfectly, and from there it became a cultural phenomenon due to press reports!
Not sure whether it is worthwhile to play any of the sequels, if you
love shooters then probably yes, if you are like my relatively annoyed
by the endless streams of shooters since Doom which were the doom (pun intended) of many other more cerebral genres, then definitely not!
Just be sure it has good MIDI. FM MIDI sucks. ;)
Damn it! I wanted to do the pedantic 'but actually!' bit about the
music!
(although I half-suspect Jab wrote that just to trigger people like
me. Mission accomplished, if so 😉
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:34:55 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Just be sure it has good MIDI. FM MIDI sucks. ;)
I may not be a fan of DOOM but I like the soundtrack. I have the
Roland SC-55 midi version in my collection. I agree, FM midi sucks.
Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
personally as they would like. :)
I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with
Heretic then Doom.
Heretic was fun. What about Hexen?
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
personally as they would like. :)
I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with >Heretic then Doom.
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:35:18 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with >>>> it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as
personally as they would like. :)
I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with
Heretic then Doom.
Heretic was fun. What about Hexen?
"Hexen" got a bad rap, but I loved it. Not so much for the gameplay
but for its (then-unique-to-FPS-games) class system, its levels with recognizable themes, and terrific atmosphere. "Wolfenstein 3D",
"Doom", "Heretic" and their endless clones... their levels were often
mazes that bore little resemblance to anything EXCEPT a labyrinth that existed soley because it was required for a game. But "Hexen 3D" (and
other 'next generation' Doom-clones, including "Dark Forces" and "Duke
Nukem 3D", pushed forward the idea that levels could be more than
mazes.
The best thing I can say about "Hexen" was that, at times, it reminded
me of playing a tabletop roleplaying game. Obviously not because of
the style of gameplay, but it had the same atmosphere; the same feel
of creeping through a dungeon. "Heretic" never managed that.
On 6/10/24 10:08, Werner P. wrote:
Am 10.06.24 um 09:07 schrieb JAB:
On 10/06/2024 01:43, Justisaur wrote:The game, the original, when it came out was refreshing and new and
On 6/9/2024 5:06 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
There's a trailer video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk8lkmYGWQ
That looks really cool. Shotgun, Hordes of enemies, Boss enemies,
Captain America shield, Mech, riding a dragon.
I haven't really been interested in Doom since the original, maybe 2
it was so long ago. This looks really good, but I'll wait until
it's out and reviewed by real people.
Doom is one of those games I've never really played. I missed it
first time around and did play a bit of one of the later versions,
can't remember which one, but I can't say the gameplay grabbed me.
really hit a nerve
a ton of that had to do with the dark humor (chainsaw) and the music
by nine inch nails.
Technically the game shined with its fluid 3d but basically other
games were way more technically advanced. But braindead action itches
a nerve in many people and doom filled that void back then on the pc
side perfectly, and from there it became a cultural phenomenon due to
press reports!
Not sure whether it is worthwhile to play any of the sequels, if you
love shooters then probably yes, if you are like my relatively annoyed
by the endless streams of shooters since Doom which were the doom (pun
intended) of many other more cerebral genres, then definitely not!
Doom 1 music was composed by Robert Prince.
Trent Reznor (NIN) composed the music for Quake (my favorite game ever).
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:13 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
Am 10.06.24 um 02:06 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
I mean, I'd still rather the industry stop relying on old IPs as aI stopped playing doom after Doom 1...
crutch and create new stuff instead, but I can't deny/some/ interest
in this game. But the fact that it's yet-another-sequel does push it
back from instant 'must buy' to 'we'll see, maybe when its on sale or
part of HumbleBundle'.
I have not missed anything, YMMV, but for me this was a one time event >>where a ton of things came together, but shooters are generally not my >>favorite kind of thing. I personally from a technical achievement would >>rate Ultima Underworld and System Shock way higher, but Doom with its
nob brain shooter elements was longer lasting and spawned more or less
as initial explotion an entire genre of dumb shooters...
I don't know if I'd rank "Underworld" a higher technical achievement
than "Doom". Both games were aiming for different things, after all.
Do not mistake me; I love "Underworld" and I greatly admire it, both
for its technical achievements and for its gameplay. And in some
respects, yes, "Underworld" was superior to Carmack's "Doom" engine.
But in other respects, "Doom" -specifically, its ability to render >full-screen first-person action at a blistering framerate- was
incredibly impressive, and surpassed Looking Glass's (well, Blue Sky >Software, at the time) efforts.
TL;DR: it's an apple-to-oranges comparison and I think both engines
were great at what they did, neither superior nor inferior to the
other. ;-)
That said: there's one game I still play more regularly than the
other... and as much as I love "Underworld", it got a lot less
playtime in 2024 than "Doom".
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 20:56:36 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:34:55 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Just be sure it has good MIDI. FM MIDI sucks. ;)
I may not be a fan of DOOM but I like the soundtrack. I have the
Roland SC-55 midi version in my collection. I agree, FM midi sucks.
You guys are cracking me up.
Not sure if you realize that at least half of all the best selling
commercial music of the 1980s that utilized synthesizers made
extensive use of FM synthesis in combination with MIDI?
(There isn't really such a thing as "FM MIDI"... Frequency Modulation
(FM) is the method of synthesis, and has nothing to do with the note
data (MIDI) that plays the sound).
I'm assuming here what you're discussing that sucks is likely the
sonic characteristics of specific sound cards or devices that just
happened to be based on FM? Yes some of those can sound tinny but
that is not necessarily a characteristic of Frequency Modulation as a synthesis method.
Also, many of the warmest/richest sounding subtractive analog
synthesizers can do FM. This only refers to modulating one oscillator
with another, effectively establishing the carrier/modulator
relationship that FM synths are based on.
By default and if the sound designer doesn't know what they are doing,
or if the signal path is crap, FM sounds can be harsh and metallic
sounding.
Listen to the pad that comes in at about 11 seconds in. A Yamaha DX7
(FM synth) was used for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RUIeX6UCT8
You guys are cracking me up.
Not sure if you realize that at least half of all the best selling
commercial music of the 1980s that utilized synthesizers made
extensive use of FM synthesis in combination with MIDI?
(There isn't really such a thing as "FM MIDI"... Frequency Modulation
(FM) is the method of synthesis, and has nothing to do with the note
data (MIDI) that plays the sound).
I'm assuming here what you're discussing that sucks is likely the
sonic characteristics of specific sound cards or devices that just
happened to be based on FM? Yes some of those can sound tinny but
that is not necessarily a characteristic of Frequency Modulation as a >synthesis method.
Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 09:27:56 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
PS: This is a highly personal opinion, and I know I am a minority with
it even in this group, so do not take it personally!
Well I never cared for Doom either and anyone here can take it as >personally as they would like. :)
I don't know if it was actually a better game, but I had more fun with >Heretic then Doom.
Ahh I remember ripping the "melee weapon" from Heretic and Sticking it
in DOOM, so instead of the chainsaw you had that electric hands thing graphically.
Other than that, Heretic was a bit meh.
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 07:29:43 -0400, Rin Stowleigh
<rstowleigh@x-nospam-x.com> wrote:
You guys are cracking me up.
Not sure if you realize that at least half of all the best selling >>commercial music of the 1980s that utilized synthesizers made
extensive use of FM synthesis in combination with MIDI?
(There isn't really such a thing as "FM MIDI"... Frequency Modulation
(FM) is the method of synthesis, and has nothing to do with the note
data (MIDI) that plays the sound).
I'm assuming here what you're discussing that sucks is likely the
sonic characteristics of specific sound cards or devices that just
happened to be based on FM? Yes some of those can sound tinny but
that is not necessarily a characteristic of Frequency Modulation as a >>synthesis method.
To me, (and I suspect to video gamers in general who played PC video
games in the 80s and 90s) 'FM MIDI' generally refers to what you get
on a stock SoundBlaster card... which usually sounds terrible.
On 6/11/24 12:29, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 20:56:36 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 18:34:55 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Just be sure it has good MIDI. FM MIDI sucks. ;)
I may not be a fan of DOOM but I like the soundtrack. I have the
Roland SC-55 midi version in my collection. I agree, FM midi sucks.
You guys are cracking me up.
Not sure if you realize that at least half of all the best selling
commercial music of the 1980s that utilized synthesizers made
extensive use of FM synthesis in combination with MIDI?
(There isn't really such a thing as "FM MIDI"... Frequency Modulation
(FM) is the method of synthesis, and has nothing to do with the note
data (MIDI) that plays the sound).
I'm assuming here what you're discussing that sucks is likely the
sonic characteristics of specific sound cards or devices that just
happened to be based on FM? Yes some of those can sound tinny but
that is not necessarily a characteristic of Frequency Modulation as a
synthesis method.
Also, many of the warmest/richest sounding subtractive analog
synthesizers can do FM. This only refers to modulating one oscillator
with another, effectively establishing the carrier/modulator
relationship that FM synths are based on.
By default and if the sound designer doesn't know what they are doing,
or if the signal path is crap, FM sounds can be harsh and metallic
sounding.
Listen to the pad that comes in at about 11 seconds in. A Yamaha DX7
(FM synth) was used for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RUIeX6UCT8
This guy synths :)
Great post.
I've been using FM synths for some decades (Yamaha TX7, DX21, DX7) and
in the right hands, can sound wonderful.
Even OPL can sound great (Monkey Island, Dune 2, Tyrian, etc)
Cheers
I played Dune 2, but honestly do not remember much about the music,
it's been a long time... the others I never played.
But if they had great music, its possible that it was written and
mixed directly on the OPL card, as opposed to composing on different
gear and then tweaking the sounds on the OPL based card to work with
the MIDI data.
At least, I find it to be a much faster workflow to decide on the
specific sounds I'm going to use up front, rather than to write chords
and melody against generic sounds and then work different sounds in
later.
Not saying the latter approach can't work too. I just find that how
sounds that might sound great by themselves play with each other is
something that's more than the sum of all parts, and it's just easier
to find the magic as early in the process as possible.
So the whole idea of "general MIDI" is to be able to just take some
MIDI data, throw it into a sound generation device and any bass line
should sound like a good bass line, same with piano/drums/brass etc.
But good sounding music isn't quite that simple, each of those sounds
has slightly different envelopes and harmonic characteristics that
don't guarantee they necessarily sound good together. And then there
can be bugs in the MIDI implementation itself that really comes out
sounding weird. Sometimes what comes out the other end sounds good, sometimes not so much.
But given some combination of talent and patience, good sounding music
can be coerced out of even the worst sounding synths.
One of my favorite FM synths from back in the day was a TX81Z. Used
and in mint condition they still go for about what I paid for mine
back in 1989.
Dune 1 (adventure) had memorable MIDI music to me from my original SB
ISA card even though I didn't like adventure games.
Does anyone remember iMuse in LucasGames like in Star Wars games?
That one was amazing even with FM MIDI!
Of course, iMuse didn't really have much to do how the music
/sounded/. It was just a virtual composing system that altered what
music played depending on the action on the screen.
Now... with a Roland or a wave-table synth.... NOW you had some good
sounding music. ;-)
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 08:31:29 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 10/06/2024 23:42, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
Damn it! I wanted to do the pedantic 'but actually!' bit about the
music!
(although I half-suspect Jab wrote that just to trigger people like
me. Mission accomplished, if so ?
Can I be pedantic and 'well actually' I didn't say anything about the
music :-)
It's only fair. ;-)
It might not be accurate but you definitely can say it. ;-) ;-) ;-)
Am 10.06.24 um 09:07 schrieb JAB:
The game, the original, when it came out was refreshing and new and
really hit a nerve a ton of that had to do with the dark humor (chainsaw)
and the music by nine inch nails.
On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 11:51:15 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
Of course, iMuse didn't really have much to do how the music
/sounded/. It was just a virtual composing system that altered what
music played depending on the action on the screen.
I know what iMuse is but to be honest with you, I never really noticed
it doing its thing back in the day so I never saw it as a big deal to
me personally.
TL;DR: it's an apple-to-oranges comparison and I think both enginesAbsolutely apple2oranges, doom/wolfenstein etc... are basically souped
were great at what they did, neither superior nor inferior to the
other. 😉
It's not merely more advanced, it's Godzilla vs a cockroach moreHehe yes that sums it up, but that was basically the comparison of
advanced.
On 12/06/2024 17:36, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 08:31:29 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 10/06/2024 23:42, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
Damn it! I wanted to do the pedantic 'but actually!' bit about the
music!
(although I half-suspect Jab wrote that just to trigger people like
me. Mission accomplished, if so ?
Can I be pedantic and 'well actually' I didn't say anything about the
music :-)
It's only fair. ;-)
It might not be accurate but you definitely can say it. ;-) ;-) ;-)
Am 10.06.24 um 09:07 schrieb JAB:
The game, the original, when it came out was refreshing and new and
really hit a nerve a ton of that had to do with the dark humor
(chainsaw)
and the music by nine inch nails.
I think you'll find that was Werner, I'm not going to misspell humour
after all :-)
Am 12.06.24 um 19:58 schrieb JAB:
On 12/06/2024 17:36, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:Could not have been me, I am only a fan of the Worried Men Skiffle group... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w37PQNOLty8
On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 08:31:29 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 10/06/2024 23:42, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
Damn it! I wanted to do the pedantic 'but actually!' bit about the
music!
(although I half-suspect Jab wrote that just to trigger people like
me. Mission accomplished, if so ?
Can I be pedantic and 'well actually' I didn't say anything about the
music :-)
It's only fair. ;-)
It might not be accurate but you definitely can say it. ;-) ;-) ;-)
Am 10.06.24 um 09:07 schrieb JAB:
The game, the original, when it came out was refreshing and new and
really hit a nerve a ton of that had to do with the dark humor
(chainsaw)
and the music by nine inch nails.
I think you'll find that was Werner, I'm not going to misspell humour
after all :-)
But seriously yes, I was unaware of it!
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