• Re: Character Creators

    From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Mon Jul 1 18:25:25 2024
    On 7/1/2024 4:44 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The hype train for the newest "Dragon Age" game is roaring down the
    tracks. The latest is an article on GameInformer on how the game has
    an incredibly robust character creation system, heads and shoulders
    above anything they've done before. But I'm not here to talk about
    "Dragon Age".

    Rather, I'm here to question the importance (and wisdom of pouring so
    many resources into developing) these character creation tools. I
    mean, sure they're neat. There's a certain segment of the population
    who likes nothing better than to use these tools to create convincing duplicates of real people. ("Look, I created Keanu Reeves in
    Skyrim!"). But creating these character creation tools isn't cheap in manpower or time, and I have to wonder: does it really matter?

    No.

    Is that
    segment of player so large as to balance out the expenditure used in
    creating the tool?

    No

    Because I suspect the vast bulk of players spend
    ten or fifteen minutes tops with it -creating a character that looks
    just vaguely close enough to their vision- before moving on the actual
    meat of the game.

    Sure, the character creation tool is usually just a front-end to the
    same editor the developers (or a procedural generation algorithm) use
    to manipulate faces for NPCs. So its not like they're making it from
    scratch. Still, the question remains: is all that effort to create
    such varied face technology really worth it? Do players /really/ care?

    It just seems that with actual video-game technology stagnating
    --games of today, tech-wise, are pretty much the same as games from
    five years ago-- publishers are instead trying to differentiate their
    games with the /appearance/ of new sophistication rather than actual advances. But this fiddlyness comes with a cost, and with AAA games
    /already/ costing over $100 million to make... maybe trim down on the unimportant stuff? Or at least focus those limited resources on the
    stuff that actually matters, like solid gameplay, good writing, and
    clever level design?

    The C-suite suits don't understand the language you are using. What is
    "solid gameplay, good writing, and clever level design"?

    Because no matter how good your character creation tool is, it's not
    going to save your game if the rest of it sucks.

    But it will suck some suckers in to buying it before they realize that
    is all the game has going for it.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Justisaur@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Tue Jul 2 07:50:38 2024
    On 7/1/2024 4:44 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The hype train for the newest "Dragon Age" game is roaring down the
    tracks. The latest is an article on GameInformer on how the game has
    an incredibly robust character creation system, heads and shoulders
    above anything they've done before. But I'm not here to talk about
    "Dragon Age".

    Rather, I'm here to question the importance (and wisdom of pouring so
    many resources into developing) these character creation tools. I
    mean, sure they're neat. There's a certain segment of the population
    who likes nothing better than to use these tools to create convincing duplicates of real people. ("Look, I created Keanu Reeves in
    Skyrim!"). But creating these character creation tools isn't cheap in manpower or time, and I have to wonder: does it really matter? Is that segment of player so large as to balance out the expenditure used in
    creating the tool? Because I suspect the vast bulk of players spend
    ten or fifteen minutes tops with it -creating a character that looks
    just vaguely close enough to their vision- before moving on the actual
    meat of the game.

    Sure, the character creation tool is usually just a front-end to the
    same editor the developers (or a procedural generation algorithm) use
    to manipulate faces for NPCs. So its not like they're making it from
    scratch. Still, the question remains: is all that effort to create
    such varied face technology really worth it? Do players /really/ care?

    It just seems that with actual video-game technology stagnating
    --games of today, tech-wise, are pretty much the same as games from
    five years ago-- publishers are instead trying to differentiate their
    games with the /appearance/ of new sophistication rather than actual advances. But this fiddlyness comes with a cost, and with AAA games
    /already/ costing over $100 million to make... maybe trim down on the unimportant stuff? Or at least focus those limited resources on the
    stuff that actually matters, like solid gameplay, good writing, and
    clever level design?

    Because no matter how good your character creation tool is, it's not
    going to save your game if the rest of it sucks.

    I like them and I've spent hours making a character in the dark souls
    games, never to see their face again after getting a helmet that covers
    it I like, not to mention camera being stuck behind them so you don't
    really see it even if you aren't wearing a face-covering helment. Some
    games have options/mods to hide the helmets, which I think they could
    really use. Sometimes I make a pretty face, other times I make the
    weirdest one I can possibly get with the creator.

    I'm not going to hang my buying of a game on them, that's for sure. But
    my enjoyment was affected on a couple. I really wish Horizon had one,
    instead I have to look at that woman that looks like a neanderthal
    throwback, or she has some sort of genetic disorder. She's definitely
    got a bit of uncanny valley. I don't particularly like being forced to
    be that one guy in Death Stranding either. Just a few options would be
    fine by me, so I can pick something I like better.

    I'd certainly miss it in souls games when I want to make something weird though.

    The only one I think it's really important in is generic superhero
    games, If you can't design your suit which is all you'll be seeing, then
    it really irks me (City of Heroes.)

    --
    -Justisaur

    ø-ø
    (\_/)\
    `-'\ `--.___,
    ¶¬'\( ,_.-'
    \\
    ^'

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to Justisaur on Wed Jul 3 14:30:07 2024
    Justisaur <justisaur@yahoo.com> wrote at 14:50 this Tuesday (GMT):
    On 7/1/2024 4:44 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The hype train for the newest "Dragon Age" game is roaring down the
    tracks. The latest is an article on GameInformer on how the game has
    an incredibly robust character creation system, heads and shoulders
    above anything they've done before. But I'm not here to talk about
    "Dragon Age".

    Rather, I'm here to question the importance (and wisdom of pouring so
    many resources into developing) these character creation tools. I
    mean, sure they're neat. There's a certain segment of the population
    who likes nothing better than to use these tools to create convincing
    duplicates of real people. ("Look, I created Keanu Reeves in
    Skyrim!"). But creating these character creation tools isn't cheap in
    manpower or time, and I have to wonder: does it really matter? Is that
    segment of player so large as to balance out the expenditure used in
    creating the tool? Because I suspect the vast bulk of players spend
    ten or fifteen minutes tops with it -creating a character that looks
    just vaguely close enough to their vision- before moving on the actual
    meat of the game.

    Sure, the character creation tool is usually just a front-end to the
    same editor the developers (or a procedural generation algorithm) use
    to manipulate faces for NPCs. So its not like they're making it from
    scratch. Still, the question remains: is all that effort to create
    such varied face technology really worth it? Do players /really/ care?

    It just seems that with actual video-game technology stagnating
    --games of today, tech-wise, are pretty much the same as games from
    five years ago-- publishers are instead trying to differentiate their
    games with the /appearance/ of new sophistication rather than actual
    advances. But this fiddlyness comes with a cost, and with AAA games
    /already/ costing over $100 million to make... maybe trim down on the
    unimportant stuff? Or at least focus those limited resources on the
    stuff that actually matters, like solid gameplay, good writing, and
    clever level design?

    Because no matter how good your character creation tool is, it's not
    going to save your game if the rest of it sucks.

    I like them and I've spent hours making a character in the dark souls
    games, never to see their face again after getting a helmet that covers
    it I like, not to mention camera being stuck behind them so you don't
    really see it even if you aren't wearing a face-covering helment. Some
    games have options/mods to hide the helmets, which I think they could
    really use. Sometimes I make a pretty face, other times I make the
    weirdest one I can possibly get with the creator.

    I vaguely remember there was an rpg I liked where you could set the
    appearance of armor/weapons/etc separate from stats, and there was an
    option to have like a basic shirt too which was really funny

    I'm not going to hang my buying of a game on them, that's for sure. But
    my enjoyment was affected on a couple. I really wish Horizon had one, instead I have to look at that woman that looks like a neanderthal
    throwback, or she has some sort of genetic disorder. She's definitely
    got a bit of uncanny valley. I don't particularly like being forced to
    be that one guy in Death Stranding either. Just a few options would be
    fine by me, so I can pick something I like better.

    I'd certainly miss it in souls games when I want to make something weird though.

    The only one I think it's really important in is generic superhero
    games, If you can't design your suit which is all you'll be seeing, then
    it really irks me (City of Heroes.)


    Honestly, I'm fine with just having a few presets to pick from. Any
    character creator I've used, I either leave it as default or hit random
    a couple times.
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)