• Re: TIL: Ultima 6 NuVIe

    From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Tue Sep 17 12:00:08 2024
    On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 22:21:19 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    So, today I learned about something that's sort of a dream come true
    for me...

    Ultima VI, released way back in 1990, was something of a
    groundbreaking game. But despite it having lush graphics, it hasn't
    aged all that well, largely because of its very clunky interface and >extremely limited view-distance. I've often tried to go back and
    replay the game, but these downsides have been such a thorn that I've
    given up before I'm more than an hour or two into the game.

    Often I've wondered why nobody ever created some sort of mod or patch
    to this game to make it more palatable to gamers spoiled by modern
    amenities. Well, it turns out they did.*

    Ultima VI NuVIe not only allows the ancient DOS game to run on modern >hardware (not that was so difficult with DOSBox, but still) and fixes
    its two most egregious issues. First, it greatly expands the scale of
    the view window**, allowing you to see more than five tiles in any
    direction (I find double that satisfactory). Secondly, it improves the >drag-n-drop mouse control. Given how much of the game revolves around >inventory management, this is an incredibly useful feature.

    The mod actually isn't new; it was in development over a decade ago.
    For some reason though, it never came to my attention, even though it
    is _exactly_ the sort of thing I'd been looking for.

    Anyway, I discovered it today, and couldn't be happier.

    Get it here:
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/nuvie/

    Thank you Internet! You made my day!



    Oh, and if you happen to have the FM Towns version of Ultima VI, it'll
    even use the full-speech voice-acting! Although given the lackluster >performances, that may not be as much a bonus as it first sounds ;-)

    Mmm. Get me a piece o' map.

    Thank you! It has been added to my vintage game folder. Might even pull
    this one out. Ultima VI was one of the last great narrative games for the series, and put a great twist on the second trilogy.

    Also, I love the way the gargoyle theme and Rule Britannia blended.

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

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  • From Mike S.@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 17 14:23:23 2024
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 12:00:08 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    Thank you! It has been added to my vintage game folder. Might even pull
    this one out. Ultima VI was one of the last great narrative games for the >series, and put a great twist on the second trilogy.

    Spalls post reminded me that I have had Nuvie bookmarked for several
    years now. I have Ultima 6 working fine in DosBox but the changes
    Spalls mentions likely makes Nuvie worth using instead.

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  • From Ross Ridge@21:1/5 to spallshurgenson@gmail.com on Tue Sep 17 20:59:15 2024
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
    Ultima VI NuVIe not only allows the ancient DOS game to run on modern >hardware (not that was so difficult with DOSBox, but still) and fixes
    its two most egregious issues. First, it greatly expands the scale of
    the view window**, allowing you to see more than five tiles in any
    direction (I find double that satisfactory).

    The problem with that is the more you expand the view the more obvious
    it becomes that you're playing in a theme park version of Britannia
    as compared to the previous games. The city of Britain and Castle
    Britannia used to be on the southern end a large plain in Ultima IV & V.
    In Ultima VI they fill that entire plain right up to the mountains.

    Ultima VII had the same problem if you played it with an engine that
    expanded the view, made worse by how cramped the map had become. Paws,
    which used to be a small town on the other side of a large bay from
    Britain had to be merged into it.

    This is why I never really liked the one-scale-fits-all approach to
    RPG design. Most people seem to find it more immersive, but to me it
    has the opposite effect.

    --
    l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
    [oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
    -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
    db //

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  • From Mike S.@21:1/5 to spallshurgenson@gmail.com on Wed Sep 18 12:45:59 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:20:06 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    Since many of its features are controlled by directly editing its
    CONFIG file, here are some tips for newbies.

    Thank you for the information. I took a screenshot of your post and
    filed it away with my Ultima files. If or when I get around to playing
    this one, I will definitely be trying out Nuvie and referring to your
    info. But I am also going to remember what Ross said.

    I already played Ultima 1-5 so I am actually up to this now. I did
    play Ultima 7 and 7.5 but it was so long ago I barely remember them
    and I am not sure if I ever finished them or not. They were my
    favorites though so I wouldn't mind playing those two again.

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  • From usuario@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 19 12:37:07 2024
    El Sat, 14 Sep 2024 22:21:19 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson escribió:

    So, today I learned about something that's sort of a dream come true for me...

    Ultima VI, released way back in 1990, was something of a groundbreaking
    game. But despite it having lush graphics, it hasn't aged all that well, largely because of its very clunky interface and extremely limited view-distance. I've often tried to go back and replay the game, but
    these downsides have been such a thorn that I've given up before I'm
    more than an hour or two into the game.

    Often I've wondered why nobody ever created some sort of mod or patch to
    this game to make it more palatable to gamers spoiled by modern
    amenities. Well, it turns out they did.*

    Ultima VI NuVIe not only allows the ancient DOS game to run on modern hardware (not that was so difficult with DOSBox, but still) and fixes
    its two most egregious issues. First, it greatly expands the scale of
    the view window**, allowing you to see more than five tiles in any
    direction (I find double that satisfactory). Secondly, it improves the drag-n-drop mouse control. Given how much of the game revolves around inventory management, this is an incredibly useful feature.

    The mod actually isn't new; it was in development over a decade ago. For
    some reason though, it never came to my attention, even though it is _exactly_ the sort of thing I'd been looking for.

    Anyway, I discovered it today, and couldn't be happier.

    Get it here:
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/nuvie/

    Thank you Internet! You made my day!



    Oh, and if you happen to have the FM Towns version of Ultima VI, it'll
    even use the full-speech voice-acting! Although given the lackluster performances, that may not be as much a bonus as it first sounds ;-)






    ----------------
    * actually, there are multiple such efforts, but they all transformed
    the game into something too distant from its original form. One uses the Ultima VII engine, the other Dungeon Siege engine. They're both
    interesting projects, but don't really feel like "Ultima VI" as I
    remember it.

    ** albeit not by default. You need to tweak the config files to get the improved result

    Current Scummvm supports Ultima games too.

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  • From Werner P.@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 19 17:26:40 2024
    Am 15.09.24 um 04:21 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:

    Get it here:
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/nuvie/

    Thank you Internet! You made my day!


    Apparently there also is a port of the game to the Exult/Ultima 7
    engine, it was in active development a while ago, dont know how far it is!

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  • From Werner P.@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 23 12:52:51 2024
    Am 19.09.24 um 18:07 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
    I replayed Ultima 7 a few years back. I was disappointed to learn that
    the experience wasn't as great as I remembered. Without argument,
    "Ultima 7" was a groundbreaking game, taking many of the ideas of
    "Ultima 6" and giving them some necessary polish.

    Ultima 7 did not age well, the combat system was a mess and that drags
    the experience down nowadays.
    I will stick to my fond memories, had the same experience as you!

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  • From Werner P.@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 23 12:55:12 2024
    Am 23.09.24 um 12:52 schrieb Werner P.:
    Am 19.09.24 um 18:07 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
    I replayed Ultima 7 a few years back. I was disappointed to learn that
    the experience wasn't as great as I remembered. Without argument,
    "Ultima 7" was a groundbreaking game, taking many of the ideas of
    "Ultima 6" and giving them some necessary polish.

    Ultima 7 did not age well, the combat system was a mess and that drags
    the experience down nowadays.
    I will stick to my fond memories, had the same experience as you!

    Nevertheless I would give a lot to see another Ultima again, but with a
    more streamlined experience. Ultima or at least half of it was to enter Britannia again and see the "old comrades" and how another problem/story revolved around the known setting and exploring the world skyrim like
    for little stories and events!

    Larian very likely would do it if they could, they are Ultima fans
    through and through. Their engine reeks of a modern Ultima 7 engine!

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  • From Mike S.@21:1/5 to Werner P. on Mon Sep 23 08:48:08 2024
    On Mon, 23 Sep 2024 12:52:51 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

    Ultima 7 did not age well, the combat system was a mess and that drags
    the experience down nowadays.
    I will stick to my fond memories, had the same experience as you!

    I never played any Ultima for the combat. It was boring in the earlier
    games and broken in Ultima 7. There are better RPGs for combat.

    I enjoyed Ultima 4 and 5 a lot for reasons other then the combat and I
    did not have any nostalgia for them as I never played those as a kid.
    I think I am going to like Ultima 6 and 7 just fine.

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  • From Werner P.@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 24 19:25:58 2024
    Am 23.09.24 um 14:48 schrieb Mike S.:
    On Mon, 23 Sep 2024 12:52:51 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

    Ultima 7 did not age well, the combat system was a mess and that drags
    the experience down nowadays.
    I will stick to my fond memories, had the same experience as you!

    I never played any Ultima for the combat. It was boring in the earlier
    games and broken in Ultima 7. There are better RPGs for combat.

    I enjoyed Ultima 4 and 5 a lot for reasons other then the combat and I
    did not have any nostalgia for them as I never played those as a kid.
    I think I am going to like Ultima 6 and 7 just fine.

    I played Ultima 7 mostly for the explorational aspect, but you have to
    have in mind those games basically were the first ones doing a lot of
    stuff, they invented a ton of what has become standard and refined nowadays.
    So yes, the quests are often fetch quests and they have a ton of stuff
    also done by other games, but those games came after Ultima!

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  • From Mike S.@21:1/5 to spallshurgenson@gmail.com on Wed Sep 25 08:31:14 2024
    On Tue, 24 Sep 2024 23:14:44 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    That said, I actually sort of _liked_ the combat system. Not because
    the combat was fun (it wasn't) but because it de-emphasised the combat >entirely. Your party generally was incredibly overpowered anyway, and
    by mid-game you could easily trounce any enemy. Pressing "c"
    essentially turned into a "make the bad guys go away" button; no fuss,
    no muss. That let me focus more on the bits that Ultima 7 _was_ good
    at; the exploration and world-building.

    I'm not sure if that's what Origin intended, but that's the effect it
    had on me.

    I agree completely. I had the exact same opinion of the combat. It
    sucked but I was ok with its suckage. I liked exploring the world and
    talking to its inhabitants. A deep involved combat system would just
    get in the way.

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  • From Ross Ridge@21:1/5 to Mike_S@nowhere.com on Wed Sep 25 13:45:52 2024
    Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> wrote:
    I enjoyed Ultima 4 and 5 a lot for reasons other then the combat and I
    did not have any nostalgia for them as I never played those as a kid.
    I think I am going to like Ultima 6 and 7 just fine.

    I played Ultima V when it was new and I enjoyed the combat. It was the
    first RPG I played where the combat felt "tactical" to me. It doesn't
    hold up compared to the tactical RPGs that came later, but it showed
    that the sort of combat I had always wanted in RPGs was possible.

    --
    l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
    [oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
    -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
    db //

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  • From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Wed Sep 25 12:11:08 2024
    On Tue, 24 Sep 2024 23:14:44 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    On Mon, 23 Sep 2024 12:52:51 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

    Am 19.09.24 um 18:07 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
    I replayed Ultima 7 a few years back. I was disappointed to learn that
    the experience wasn't as great as I remembered. Without argument,
    "Ultima 7" was a groundbreaking game, taking many of the ideas of
    "Ultima 6" and giving them some necessary polish.

    Ultima 7 did not age well, the combat system was a mess and that drags
    the experience down nowadays.
    I will stick to my fond memories, had the same experience as you!

    A lot of people complain about Ultima 7's combat, and understandably
    so. The game stripped out all strategy -and pretty much all control-
    from the game. You'd hit the "c" key to switch your party into combat
    mode, and the AI would instantly take over, automatically running
    about willy-nilly swatting at enemies until all nearby foes were dead.

    Technically, you _could_ control the characters manually but -because
    the game was real-time- this was functionally useless. The enemy AI
    didn't wait for you, and managing the characters was a mess.

    Worst was when a party member got seriously wounded; he'd run away
    (often dropping his weapon and equipment) and -if the enemy chased
    him- might even die offscreen and you'd never find him.

    That said, I actually sort of _liked_ the combat system. Not because
    the combat was fun (it wasn't) but because it de-emphasised the combat >entirely. Your party generally was incredibly overpowered anyway, and
    by mid-game you could easily trounce any enemy. Pressing "c"
    essentially turned into a "make the bad guys go away" button; no fuss,
    no muss. That let me focus more on the bits that Ultima 7 _was_ good
    at; the exploration and world-building.

    I'm not sure if that's what Origin intended, but that's the effect it
    had on me.

    Yeah. Didn't bug me either. You just learn to manage the side-effects and
    move on.

    Ultima VII, though much vaunted, was just not a very good game though
    IMO. It was not the train wreck that was Ultima VIII, which effectively euthanized the series, but the quest was a huge McGuffin chase and the
    Guardian was just not a good challenge compared to ethical improvement. I
    blame EA demanding a more Hollywood experience. EA ruins everything.

    I never got more than halfway through Serpent Isle, though the system was
    more polished. I simply got bored.

    U6 was the last satisfying Ultima I played. The third trilogy was pants.
    U5 is the pinnacle, IMO. Especially the possibility of just getting
    trapped with Lord British if you did the dumb thing.

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

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  • From Ross Ridge@21:1/5 to zaghadka@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 26 13:10:14 2024
    Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
    I never got more than halfway through Serpent Isle, though the system was >more polished. I simply got bored.

    I finished Serpent Isle, but never finished Ultima VII despite two
    attempts because of the same bug. If you fly over the mountains where the final battle happens you can trigger it early, causing you to be permantly locked out of the room where it happens. The second playthrough I knew
    about the bug and tried to avoid it, but still managed to accidentally
    trigger it

    --
    l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
    [oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
    -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
    db //

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  • From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to Ross Ridge on Thu Sep 26 11:38:56 2024
    On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 13:10:14 -0000 (UTC), in
    comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Ross Ridge wrote:

    Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
    I never got more than halfway through Serpent Isle, though the system was >>more polished. I simply got bored.

    I finished Serpent Isle, but never finished Ultima VII despite two
    attempts because of the same bug. If you fly over the mountains where the >final battle happens you can trigger it early, causing you to be permantly >locked out of the room where it happens. The second playthrough I knew
    about the bug and tried to avoid it, but still managed to accidentally >trigger it

    Huh. I never ran into that one. I break games regularly, finding niche
    bugs, but I guess I don't find major bugs.

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

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