• Re: One Step Forward...

    From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 27 13:56:14 2023
    On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:19:04 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    So I said this project was 'closed'... and it is. Certainly from the
    hardware side; I've got nothing more to add (actually, I've since
    'removed' - or rather, unplugged - two of the case fans to bring some
    sanity and quiet to the room when I use the PC. They weren't really
    necessary anyway).

    But on the software side? Look, the obscenely large (for 1999)
    hard-drive still has 60GB free, and I gotta use it all SOMEHOW.

    But what to add? I've dumped a lot of games and apps onto this system
    already, but I could always use more. But I'm having a hard time
    deciding (or even remembering) what to put on next. Hence this post.

    So, I want games and apps that:

    a) Were released for the Win9x platform between 1995 and
    1999. Anything released earlier falls into DOS gaming
    (and I have that well covered elsewhere), and anything
    later the hardware won't run well enough to bother with.
    Besides, games released in that period were often a lot
    more experimental as hardware capabilities expanded in
    leaps and bounds, and new gameplay mechanics started to
    become possible.

    b) Are somewhat unusual. Sure, there's the obvious stuff
    like Quake and Unreal, or Half Life and Need for Speed,
    or Sin. All classic games, sure but... well, maybe a
    bit overplayed? How about some of the more unusual
    games, the ones that - while good - we've all forgotten
    about in the intervening decades. Stuff like "Hexplore"
    or "Yoda Stories".

    c) Make good use of the hardware. Something that shows off
    90s PCs at their best. "Incoming Forces", for instance,
    was all about the lens flare, and lens flare was so very
    90s. Or the colored lighting in "Forsaken".

    So I'm thinking games like "Nocturne" or "Independence War", or apps
    like "Kai's Power Goo" or the "Yamaha XG-50 Soft-Synth". Games that
    scream 'I'm from the 90s' that you remember fondly even though you
    haven't played them in twenty years. Apps that once were considered
    essential tools that we now get for free in the OS. Programs that
    never make the top-10 list but still deserve another chance to shine.

    Any ideas?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anssi Saari@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Tue Mar 28 14:38:16 2023
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

    On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:19:04 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    So I said this project was 'closed'... and it is. Certainly from the
    hardware side; I've got nothing more to add (actually, I've since
    'removed' - or rather, unplugged - two of the case fans to bring some
    sanity and quiet to the room when I use the PC. They weren't really
    necessary anyway).


    But on the software side? Look, the obscenely large (for 1999)
    hard-drive still has 60GB free, and I gotta use it all SOMEHOW.

    I can't think of much. The big games from late 90s for me are probably
    SS2 and Deus Ex.

    I remember Red Alert mostly because I installed Windows 95 when I hit
    the infamous Red Alert's DOS version installer bug. I guess you've
    covered RTS games and moving them into Windows hardly made a difference
    from playing them in DOS.

    Battlezone from 1998 comes to mind as a slightly less known game, a kind
    of RTS/FPS hybrid. It did use 3D acceleration for graphics too as I
    recall, I remember some pretty smoke effects.

    Heavy Gear II? It even had a short mission where you were in free fall
    with your gear. That was a somewhat unusual bit in an otherwise fairly
    dull FPS.

    What else, NOLF maybe? I remember one newish feature there was that it
    showed stats of where you had hit your enemies as in head/torso/limb
    shots. It lead to me trying for headshots in System Shock 2 even though
    it was completely pointless there. I doubt it was the first game to do
    that though. Well, the 60s secret agent vibe wasn't that common at the
    time as I recall. But you probably have NOLF there already?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rms@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 28 08:58:49 2023
    But on the software side? Look, the obscenely large (for 1999)
    hard-drive still has 60GB free, and I gotta use it all SOMEHOW.

    Maybe the 90's FMV titles, like Black Dahlia etc?

    rms

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to Anssi Saari on Tue Mar 28 21:01:03 2023
    On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 14:38:16 +0300, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

    I can't think of much. The big games from late 90s for me are probably
    SS2 and Deus Ex.

    I'm trying to avoid the 'big name' games largely because, due to their
    status, most of them have been updated to run smoothly on modern
    hardware; thus, there's no need to put them on the dedicated Win9x PC.

    I remember Red Alert mostly because I installed Windows 95 when I hit
    the infamous Red Alert's DOS version installer bug. I guess you've
    covered RTS games and moving them into Windows hardly made a difference
    from playing them in DOS.

    I was never a fan of the Red Alert games; I always preferred the main
    series. "Command & Conquer 2" was one of the first games installed on
    the win98 computer. I loved its map art!

    Battlezone from 1998 comes to mind as a slightly less known game, a kind
    of RTS/FPS hybrid. It did use 3D acceleration for graphics too as I
    recall, I remember some pretty smoke effects.

    Ooh, that's a good one. I need to dig out the CD for that game.

    Heavy Gear II? It even had a short mission where you were in free fall
    with your gear. That was a somewhat unusual bit in an otherwise fairly
    dull FPS.

    That's another good suggestion; alas, one I had already thought of. I
    had to decide between "Heavy Gear" and "Heavy Gear II"; eventually I
    decided on the former, simply because it runs better on the hardware.
    While HG2 was /mechanically/ a better game (better visuals, better
    controls), and it had some memorable missions (the aforementioned
    space missions) its gameplay wasn't as exciting, largely because it
    nerfed the enemies. In the HG universe, the 'gears' (the giant robots)
    fit realistically between infanty and proper armored units like tanks,
    and the first game respected this. But in the second game, gears
    became overpowered and tanks extremely squishy. This not only removed
    a lot of the challenge, but much of the game's versimilitude.

    Side note: another classic Activision game of the era is "Interstate
    76", but I couldn't get that game to run; it crashed whenever I
    started a mission. Still, I did get to see the awesome intro.

    What else, NOLF maybe? I remember one newish feature there was that it
    showed stats of where you had hit your enemies as in head/torso/limb
    shots. It lead to me trying for headshots in System Shock 2 even though
    it was completely pointless there. I doubt it was the first game to do
    that though. Well, the 60s secret agent vibe wasn't that common at the
    time as I recall. But you probably have NOLF there already?

    NOLF is /very/ tempting but, having been released in 2002, I think it
    would be a poor fit for the hardware. The game would probably run but
    - with only a 300MHz CPU and a Voodoo 3, I'd likely have to compromise
    on visual quality and, let's face it, 3D FPS games of that era were no
    lookers to begin with.

    Anyway, while I loved the setting the gameplay always left me cold (to
    get maximum enjoyment, you'd have to slowly sneak through the level
    and then freeze in one place for five minutes everytime an NPC started
    talking to hear his humorous comments).

    Still, I could try other Monolith games; "SHOGO" and "Blood II" are
    the most obvious (since the share the same engine), but personally I
    never found either of them that enjoyable. But perhaps "Rage of Mages"
    or "Septera Core". So a good - if indirect - recommendation; thank you
    ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anssi Saari@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Wed Mar 29 12:45:30 2023
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

    What else, NOLF maybe? I remember one newish feature there was that it >>showed stats of where you had hit your enemies as in head/torso/limb
    shots. It lead to me trying for headshots in System Shock 2 even though
    it was completely pointless there. I doubt it was the first game to do
    that though. Well, the 60s secret agent vibe wasn't that common at the
    time as I recall. But you probably have NOLF there already?

    NOLF is /very/ tempting but, having been released in 2002, I think it
    would be a poor fit for the hardware. The game would probably run but
    - with only a 300MHz CPU and a Voodoo 3, I'd likely have to compromise
    on visual quality and, let's face it, 3D FPS games of that era were no lookers to begin with.

    I sure don't remember exactly when NOLF came out but Wikipedia says the
    Windows release was in late 2000 so it's in the window. NOLF2 was 2002.

    Anyway, while I loved the setting the gameplay always left me cold (to
    get maximum enjoyment, you'd have to slowly sneak through the level
    and then freeze in one place for five minutes everytime an NPC started talking to hear his humorous comments).

    True. OTOH, it played decently as an FPS even if you didn't hear all the comments or random chats. Although I remember one guard finding another
    dead and calling me out to clean up the mess. That was pretty funny so
    maybe I lost some of the enjoyment.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net on Wed Mar 29 11:07:45 2023
    On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 08:58:49 -0600, "rms"
    <rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net> wrote:

    But on the software side? Look, the obscenely large (for 1999)
    hard-drive still has 60GB free, and I gotta use it all SOMEHOW.

    Maybe the 90's FMV titles, like Black Dahlia etc?

    Oooh, I hadn't heard of that one.
    (checks games collection)
    Or, apparently I did (since I have it, because OF COURSE I do!) but
    I've no memory of it. But /exactly/ the sort of thing I want; Win9x,
    acceptable quality, and relatively unknown (even to me! ;-)

    Good tip, thanks!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to Anssi Saari on Wed Mar 29 11:17:33 2023
    On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 12:45:30 +0300, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:


    NOLF is /very/ tempting but, having been released in 2002, I think it
    would be a poor fit for the hardware. The game would probably run but
    - with only a 300MHz CPU and a Voodoo 3, I'd likely have to compromise
    on visual quality and, let's face it, 3D FPS games of that era were no
    lookers to begin with.

    I sure don't remember exactly when NOLF came out but Wikipedia says the >Windows release was in late 2000 so it's in the window. NOLF2 was 2002.

    hmm, I have it listed as 2002, but looking at mobygames it's Nov 9
    2000. I'll correct my records. ;-)

    Still, even a game from 2000 pushes it on the hardware. A 300MHz
    Pentium II wasn't really competitive by then, and - as much as I live
    my Voodoo card - it was behind the curve even when it was released.
    It's great for games released before it hit the market, but it
    struggles with stuff afterwards.

    And that's fine. Like I said, I have an XP box already for more
    'modern' games (2000-2010) so I'm not complaining. I just don't see
    them as optimal on the Win9x PC. Maybe I'll put NOLF, NOLF2 (and poor
    old forgotten Contract JACK) on that XP computer. They're due a
    re-visit.

    Anyway, while I loved the setting the gameplay always left me cold (to
    get maximum enjoyment, you'd have to slowly sneak through the level
    and then freeze in one place for five minutes everytime an NPC started
    talking to hear his humorous comments).

    True. OTOH, it played decently as an FPS even if you didn't hear all the >comments or random chats. Although I remember one guard finding another
    dead and calling me out to clean up the mess. That was pretty funny so
    maybe I lost some of the enjoyment.

    The gameplay itself was... moderately fun. It wasn't ground-breaking,
    but it had enough novelty here and there to be entertaining. But it
    also had a bunch of annoying forced-stealth sections (I recall at
    least one mission that instantly failed if you were seen) and,
    compared to the polish of modern FPS games, its 90s-era gameplay can
    be really hard to enjoy. This was back when a game wasn't considered
    'good' unless it had really huge levels, and took you 30 hours to
    finish, so there was a lot of filler.

    So as a shooter, it was just okay. It only transcended its peers when
    you soaked in the setting, which required a lot of patient listening
    to random dialogues, and endlessly searching for all the hidden notes
    and clues, which dragged out the already langorous gameplay.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anssi Saari@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Thu Mar 30 15:17:56 2023
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

    Still, even a game from 2000 pushes it on the hardware. A 300MHz
    Pentium II wasn't really competitive by then, and - as much as I live
    my Voodoo card - it was behind the curve even when it was released.
    It's great for games released before it hit the market, but it
    struggles with stuff afterwards.

    Come to think of it, I probably had an 800 MHz AMD Duron at the time so
    I can see the point. Probably with a whiny TNT2 Ultra.

    And that's fine. Like I said, I have an XP box already for more
    'modern' games (2000-2010) so I'm not complaining. I just don't see
    them as optimal on the Win9x PC. Maybe I'll put NOLF, NOLF2 (and poor
    old forgotten Contract JACK) on that XP computer. They're due a
    re-visit.

    Was Contract JACK any good? I never heard of it before just reading the
    NOLF Wikipedia page. I didn't like NOLF2 that much either to be honest.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to Anssi Saari on Thu Mar 30 10:01:07 2023
    On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 15:17:56 +0300, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

    Still, even a game from 2000 pushes it on the hardware. A 300MHz
    Pentium II wasn't really competitive by then, and - as much as I live
    my Voodoo card - it was behind the curve even when it was released.
    It's great for games released before it hit the market, but it
    struggles with stuff afterwards.

    Come to think of it, I probably had an 800 MHz AMD Duron at the time so
    I can see the point. Probably with a whiny TNT2 Ultra.

    Yeah, the Win98 PC struggles with Quake II at 800x600; it's definitely
    hitting its limits with anything released post 1999. But, like I said,
    I'm okay with that. Older games run fine, and I love seeing that 3DFX
    logo flash on the screen when it switches to 3D mode. ;-)


    Was Contract JACK any good? I never heard of it before just reading the
    NOLF Wikipedia page. I didn't like NOLF2 that much either to be honest.

    It gots a bad reputation and worse reviews, but as I recall it wasn't
    that terrible a shooter. Its gameplay and maps were fairly average for
    the time; about on par with other B-list games. But it lacked all the
    character and humor of its predecessors; it was pretty much a generic
    FPS game with a replacable hero fighting off uninteresting enemies.

    As I've stated earlier, I never got much enjoyment from the gameplay
    of the earlier NOLF games, and it was the uniqueness of the setting
    and characters of those games that made them memorable. The actual
    mechanics were average. "Contract JACK" takes that already mediocre
    gameplay, strips away all the interesting bits, and shoves it into an unexciting story.

    If you don't care about the setting and just want to run around
    shooting stuff, 2000s style, then "Contract JACK" is acceptable, I
    suppose. But it's definitely a step down from the NOLF games.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)