So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?

I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".

My main development tool is PHPStorm, which is a java application and runs on Windows as well, naturally. On top of that, I just need a web browser and a
web server. Now, Apache+mariadDB can be installed on Windows, but I would
think that a safer bet would be Docker for that. So in theory my main development environment could be more or less replicated on Windows.

So then there is the system, while MacOS and Windows certainly have different approaches to a great number of things, most of that amounts to relearning stuff and conventions I guess.

But in the end, Windows is no Unix, and the Unix underpinnings of OSX is freaking awesome to have at your disposal. And while relearning how virtual desktops work or how you install and uninstall applications is one thing - yanking out some 30+ years of unix and linux conditioning isn't an easy task. It's like moving from emacs to vim, really. Nothing is the same, or even similar.

And then there's all the little details, things you never think about. Something like the Automator app, that can create big workflows out of GUI applications. For instance, I have a "Upload reciept" action when I print a document, that uploads the reciepts to my web server, saves it in a database and gives me the option of filling out information about it. AppleScript may not be modern or even easy to use, but when it does work, it's pretty
awesome. If I hit F19 on my keyboard, an applescript goes through a list of apps and if any one of them is running, plays or pauses it. So I can listen
to music on Spotify, watch Netflix, youtube, whatever and I hit that button
and it pauses. For the record, yes the Apple keyboard does have a play/pause button but the app has to support it, and many do, but some don't. Hey AppleScript :)

So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating
this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I
have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising, it's late here in Sweden :)

--
Sandman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:

So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?

For some level of "work", sure. Just like using a screw driver when you
don't have a paint can opener ... or a hammer /s

I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".
...

Understandable. I was just thinking about Lloyd Parsons this past week, as I had a Buick SUV as my rental ... an Envision, I think. I found the first few days
with it to be downright irritating, as its controls (steering especially) was just
set up to be "too light" for my preferences. Sure it was "easy" to steer the SUV,
but it did so with very minimal feedback which made it harder overall.

So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising, it's late here in Sweden :)

Understood. I've got a Windows PC in a moving box from some cleanup work,
and I'll hopefully find where my brother "hid" the admin password one of these weeks so that I can actually manage it...until I get that piece of info, its not really
worth unboxing - - its potentially just a candidate to be broken down for a few parts.
Meantime, I have an M1 mini to get set up when I have a few moments as well; looking at refurbishing a lot of stuff while I'm installing a new WiFi 6 system when
the fall weather turns and I can't do outside maintenance chores.


-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 4:21:07 PM UTC-7, -hh wrote:

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:

So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?

For some level of "work", sure. Just like using a screw driver when you
don't have a paint can opener ... or a hammer /s

I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".
...

Understandable. I was just thinking about Lloyd Parsons this past week, as I had a Buick SUV as my rental ... an Envision, I think. I found the first few days
with it to be downright irritating, as its controls (steering especially) was just
set up to be "too light" for my preferences. Sure it was "easy" to steer the SUV,
but it did so with very minimal feedback which made it harder overall.

So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if
that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising,
it's late here in Sweden :)

Understood. I've got a Windows PC in a moving box from some cleanup work,
and I'll hopefully find where my brother "hid" the admin password one of these
weeks so that I can actually manage it...until I get that piece of info, its not really
worth unboxing - - its potentially just a candidate to be broken down for a few parts.
Meantime, I have an M1 mini to get set up when I have a few moments as well; looking at refurbishing a lot of stuff while I'm installing a new WiFi 6 system when
the fall weather turns and I can't do outside maintenance chores.

-hh

John Gohde just wiped his ass with Prescott Computer Guy. Despite Prescott Computer Guy's claim that he has "no skill in making enemies" (a lie as
proved by the fact that he slammed John Gohde's site) he was seen asking programmers how they would take down a website. That's our Prescott Computer Guy, though, has super powers of course. Believes if your computer/IP
is online, they've got the right to use your resources, whether you like
it or not. I want Prescott Computer Guy to support their doxing accusation. Let's see the evidence Prescott Computer Guy. When I accused Prescott
Computer Guy of socking as John Gohde I actually supported it with links.



--
This Trick Gets Women Hot For You! https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-GP3-53521b56d37f77e8febfe0902a635dd5/pdf/GOVPUB-
GP3-53521b56d37f77e8febfe0902a635dd5.pdf
Steve Petruzzellis the Narcissistic Bigot

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sep 19, 2021 at 1:47:38 PM MST, "Sandman" wrote <sandman-867e494aa8b437d6126c8cff7de50240@individual.net>:

So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?

I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".

My main development tool is PHPStorm, which is a java application and runs on Windows as well, naturally. On top of that, I just need a web browser and a web server. Now, Apache+mariadDB can be installed on Windows, but I would think that a safer bet would be Docker for that. So in theory my main development environment could be more or less replicated on Windows.

So then there is the system, while MacOS and Windows certainly have different approaches to a great number of things, most of that amounts to relearning stuff and conventions I guess.

But in the end, Windows is no Unix, and the Unix underpinnings of OSX is freaking awesome to have at your disposal. And while relearning how virtual desktops work or how you install and uninstall applications is one thing - yanking out some 30+ years of unix and linux conditioning isn't an easy task. It's like moving from emacs to vim, really. Nothing is the same, or even similar.

And then there's all the little details, things you never think about. Something like the Automator app, that can create big workflows out of GUI applications.

For me these types of things would be the most important. Automator, AppleScript, System Services... even the integration of color selectors and
the like (though that is less important to me now than it was in the past).

For instance, I have a "Upload reciept" action when I print a
document, that uploads the reciepts to my web server, saves it in a database and gives me the option of filling out information about it. AppleScript may not be modern or even easy to use, but when it does work, it's pretty awesome.

Right. And a lot of people depend on it, or at least are heavily tied to it. Carroll has repeatedly told me that Apple is planning on doing away with it -- and they have made some moves to at least add JavaScript. Do you think AppleScript is going to go away in, say, the next 3-5 years? I do not... but Apple does have a way of letting go of the old.

If I hit F19 on my keyboard, an applescript goes through a list of
apps and if any one of them is running, plays or pauses it. So I can listen to music on Spotify, watch Netflix, youtube, whatever and I hit that button and it pauses. For the record, yes the Apple keyboard does have a play/pause button but the app has to support it, and many do, but some don't. Hey AppleScript :)

I do something similar with the Next / Prev buttons on my third party mouse,
as well as the middle button I use for "hide / show". I have a third party driver that lets me set the buttons to be different things per app. I have not looked in some time, but I know of no such tool for Windows or Linux (would
not be surprised if they do exist, though). I do know they matter a lot to me. I can be in Pages or my Safari or Chrome and go through tabs with a button, or show and hide invisible items in word processors and text editors or full time lines in video editing apps. It makes a difference.

So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising, it's late here in Sweden :)

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:

So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?

I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".

My main development tool is PHPStorm, which is a java application and runs on
Windows as well, naturally. On top of that, I just need a web browser and a web server. Now, Apache+mariadDB can be installed on Windows, but I would think that a safer bet would be Docker for that. So in theory my main development environment could be more or less replicated on Windows.

So then there is the system, while MacOS and Windows certainly have different
approaches to a great number of things, most of that amounts to relearning stuff and conventions I guess.

But in the end, Windows is no Unix, and the Unix underpinnings of OSX is freaking awesome to have at your disposal. And while relearning how virtual desktops work or how you install and uninstall applications is one thing - yanking out some 30+ years of unix and linux conditioning isn't an easy task.
It's like moving from emacs to vim, really. Nothing is the same, or even similar.

And then there's all the little details, things you never think about. Something like the Automator app, that can create big workflows out of GUI applications. For instance, I have a "Upload reciept" action when I print a document, that uploads the reciepts to my web server, saves it in a database and gives me the option of filling out information about it. AppleScript may not be modern or even easy to use, but when it does work, it's pretty awesome. If I hit F19 on my keyboard, an applescript goes through a list of apps and if any one of them is running, plays or pauses it. So I can listen to music on Spotify, watch Netflix, youtube, whatever and I hit that button and it pauses. For the record, yes the Apple keyboard does have a play/pause button but the app has to support it, and many do, but some don't. Hey AppleScript :)

So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising, it's late here in Sweden :)

--
Sandman

So finally a rainy day here and some time I can call my own. It's been a month since I even looked at CSMA.

I've had very little experience with Mac OS, and found it frustrating. Not because it's inherently difficult if it's what you are used to, but different from Windows. If you are a Windows user Mac OS is not intuitive. You could obviously learn Windows,
and it would probably do almost anything a Mac can do, but it would take time and an open mind.

On the mobile/tablet platforms I transitioned to iOS from Android about 4 years ago. It was a struggle for a few weeks. Android's settings are organized into a lot fewer top level groups. Finding iOS setting was confusing at first, but 4 years later is "
intuitive". The iOS keyboard is not as good as Android, and the forms auto-input is much more limited. I still find it frustrating that iOS does not seem to know my e-mail address and pop it up every time I need it for a browser form. I use mostly MS
Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all. There are almost no differences to learn. The new iOS Office version is awesome. But again, it works well on Android too.

Windows has its own scripting language, but I have almost no experience with it. I've used some scripts others wrote to perform maintenance tasks. Seems to work, but have no idea how it compares to the Mac equivalent.

My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete
and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.

For the sake of the group please do not try to switch. Stick with what you know. We don't need you venting your frustrations as you learn a new paradigm.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:

So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?

I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".

My main development tool is PHPStorm, which is a java application and runs on
Windows as well, naturally. On top of that, I just need a web browser and a web server. Now, Apache+mariadDB can be installed on Windows, but I would think that a safer bet would be Docker for that. So in theory my main development environment could be more or less replicated on Windows.

So then there is the system, while MacOS and Windows certainly have different
approaches to a great number of things, most of that amounts to relearning stuff and conventions I guess.

But in the end, Windows is no Unix, and the Unix underpinnings of OSX is freaking awesome to have at your disposal. And while relearning how virtual desktops work or how you install and uninstall applications is one thing - yanking out some 30+ years of unix and linux conditioning isn't an easy task.
It's like moving from emacs to vim, really. Nothing is the same, or even similar.

And then there's all the little details, things you never think about. Something like the Automator app, that can create big workflows out of GUI applications. For instance, I have a "Upload reciept" action when I print a document, that uploads the reciepts to my web server, saves it in a database
and gives me the option of filling out information about it. AppleScript may
not be modern or even easy to use, but when it does work, it's pretty awesome. If I hit F19 on my keyboard, an applescript goes through a list of apps and if any one of them is running, plays or pauses it. So I can listen to music on Spotify, watch Netflix, youtube, whatever and I hit that button and it pauses. For the record, yes the Apple keyboard does have a play/pause
button but the app has to support it, and many do, but some don't. Hey AppleScript :)

So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if
that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising,
it's late here in Sweden :)

So finally a rainy day here and some time I can call my own. It's been a month since I even looked at CSMA.

I've had very little experience with Mac OS, and found it frustrating. Not because it's
inherently difficult if it's what you are used to, but different from Windows. If you are
a Windows user Mac OS is not intuitive. You could obviously learn Windows, and it
would probably do almost anything a Mac can do, but it would take time and an open mind.

I've been a "dual OS" user for 20+ years. There's little UI niggles that one finds pretty
quickly (such as if the keyboard tactile indents are under the index fingers or middle fingers
when touch-typing), but its not too terribly different than developing the muscle memory
familiarity with the controls layouts of two different brands of automobiles...

On the mobile/tablet platforms I transitioned to iOS from Android about 4 years ago.
It was a struggle for a few weeks. Android's settings are organized into a lot fewer top
level groups. Finding iOS setting was confusing at first, but 4 years later is "intuitive".
The iOS keyboard is not as good as Android, and the forms auto-input is much more limited.
I still find it frustrating that iOS does not seem to know my e-mail address and pop it up
every time I need it for a browser form.

Mine regularly pops up; asks me which email address / phone# / etc that it should use.
I suspect that this probably is a "field definitions" issue from the website side, where the
OS is looking for specific HTML/XML tagging for what kind of data input its supposed to be.
Maybe iOS is simply being more stringent?

I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Windows has its own scripting language, but I have almost no experience with it. I've used
some scripts others wrote to perform maintenance tasks. Seems to work, but have no idea
how it compares to the Mac equivalent.

I had dabbled some with some Mac scripts years ago .. and then an OS update broke them.
After some futzing to try to unbreak it, I just abandoned it.

My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and Windows
volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby.

I'd set up some 'Hot Keys' on my Mac keyboards F-buttons awhile back. They could
be useful, but I've found that with a larger monitor now, I only rarely use them.

Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.

My Apple OEM keyboard has both ... just need to choose the bigger ("extended") keyboard instead of the compact one (which lacks numeric keypad):

<https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ052LL/A/magic-keyboard-with-numeric-keypad-us-english>



-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <36b94b6a-3b7d-4a31-a09e-2fa55718c7c4n@googlegroups.com>, Thomas
E. wrote:

Thomas E.:
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app
and Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator
app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows
settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has
delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs
don't have both.

Snit:
The full sized ones with keypads do.

I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.

So your windows notebook have a Logitech K350 keyboard built in? That's a
funky looking notebook, Tom.

--
Sandman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <dd1d6292-a0c5-4dc3-b231-471a43baa1fen@googlegroups.com>, Thomas
E. wrote:

On the mobile/tablet platforms I transitioned to iOS from Android
about 4 years ago. It was a struggle for a few weeks. Android's
settings are organized into a lot fewer top level groups. Finding
iOS setting was confusing at first, but 4 years later is
"intuitive". The iOS keyboard is not as good as Android, and the
forms auto-input is much more limited. I still find it frustrating
that iOS does not seem to know my e-mail address and pop it up every
time I need it for a browser form. I use mostly MS Office and Google
apps, so that was not bad at all. There are almost no differences to
learn. The new iOS Office version is awesome. But again, it works
well on Android too.

Not interested in Android, don't want to be locked in to that walled garden
of exploit.

My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and
Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app,
browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings,
and standby.

Irrelevant, I'm betting you can't play/pause youtube videos in it.

Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and
backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.

They do, of course.

For the sake of the group please do not try to switch. Stick with
what you know. We don't need you venting your frustrations as you
learn a new paradigm.

What "you" need is so irrelevant to me that it's laughable that you would
even bring it up :)

--
Sandman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Thomas E. <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> wrote:
…

My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and
Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have
never understood why Macs don't have both.

The full sized ones with keypads do.

For the sake of the group please do not try to switch. Stick with what
you know. We don't need you venting your frustrations as you learn a new paradigm.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sep 20, 2021 at 6:57:19 AM MST, ""Thomas E."" wrote <36b94b6a-3b7d-4a31-a09e-2fa55718c7c4n@googlegroups.com>:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 9:27:59 AM UTC-4, Snit wrote:

Thomas E. <thomas...@gmail.com> wrote:
…

My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and
Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser
up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. >>> Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have
never understood why Macs don't have both.

The full sized ones with keypads do.

For the sake of the group please do not try to switch. Stick with what
you know. We don't need you venting your frustrations as you learn a new >>> paradigm.

I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.

I was referring to "My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350."

With the notebooks with smaller keyboards you can use Command+Delete to get
the backspace.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 9:27:59 AM UTC-4, Snit wrote:

Thomas E. <thomas...@gmail.com> wrote:
…

My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.

The full sized ones with keypads do.

For the sake of the group please do not try to switch. Stick with what
you know. We don't need you venting your frustrations as you learn a new paradigm.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:

So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to
switch to Windows? Could it work?

I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of
history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".

My main development tool is PHPStorm, which is a java application and runs on
Windows as well, naturally. On top of that, I just need a web browser and a
web server. Now, Apache+mariadDB can be installed on Windows, but I would think that a safer bet would be Docker for that. So in theory my main development environment could be more or less replicated on Windows.

So then there is the system, while MacOS and Windows certainly have different
approaches to a great number of things, most of that amounts to relearning
stuff and conventions I guess.

But in the end, Windows is no Unix, and the Unix underpinnings of OSX is freaking awesome to have at your disposal. And while relearning how virtual
desktops work or how you install and uninstall applications is one thing -
yanking out some 30+ years of unix and linux conditioning isn't an easy task.
It's like moving from emacs to vim, really. Nothing is the same, or even similar.

And then there's all the little details, things you never think about. Something like the Automator app, that can create big workflows out of GUI
applications. For instance, I have a "Upload reciept" action when I print a
document, that uploads the reciepts to my web server, saves it in a database
and gives me the option of filling out information about it. AppleScript may
not be modern or even easy to use, but when it does work, it's pretty awesome. If I hit F19 on my keyboard, an applescript goes through a list of
apps and if any one of them is running, plays or pauses it. So I can listen
to music on Spotify, watch Netflix, youtube, whatever and I hit that button
and it pauses. For the record, yes the Apple keyboard does have a play/pause
button but the app has to support it, and many do, but some don't. Hey AppleScript :)

So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if
that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising,
it's late here in Sweden :)

So finally a rainy day here and some time I can call my own. It's been a month since I even looked at CSMA.

I've had very little experience with Mac OS, and found it frustrating. Not because it's
inherently difficult if it's what you are used to, but different from Windows. If you are
a Windows user Mac OS is not intuitive. You could obviously learn Windows, and it
would probably do almost anything a Mac can do, but it would take time and an open mind.

I've been a "dual OS" user for 20+ years. There's little UI niggles that one finds pretty
quickly (such as if the keyboard tactile indents are under the index fingers or middle fingers
when touch-typing), but its not too terribly different than developing the muscle memory
familiarity with the controls layouts of two different brands of automobiles...

On the mobile/tablet platforms I transitioned to iOS from Android about 4 years ago.
It was a struggle for a few weeks. Android's settings are organized into a lot fewer top
level groups. Finding iOS setting was confusing at first, but 4 years later is "intuitive".
The iOS keyboard is not as good as Android, and the forms auto-input is much more limited.
I still find it frustrating that iOS does not seem to know my e-mail address and pop it up
every time I need it for a browser form.

Mine regularly pops up; asks me which email address / phone# / etc that it should use.
I suspect that this probably is a "field definitions" issue from the website side, where the
OS is looking for specific HTML/XML tagging for what kind of data input its supposed to be.
Maybe iOS is simply being more stringent?

I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Windows has its own scripting language, but I have almost no experience with it. I've used
some scripts others wrote to perform maintenance tasks. Seems to work, but have no idea
how it compares to the Mac equivalent.

I had dabbled some with some Mac scripts years ago .. and then an OS update broke them.
After some futzing to try to unbreak it, I just abandoned it.

My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom,
Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby.

I'd set up some 'Hot Keys' on my Mac keyboards F-buttons awhile back. They could
be useful, but I've found that with a larger monitor now, I only rarely use them.

Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.

My Apple OEM keyboard has both ... just need to choose the bigger ("extended")
keyboard instead of the compact one (which lacks numeric keypad):

<https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ052LL/A/magic-keyboard-with-numeric-keypad-us-english>

-hh

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <deac8086-6ff6-4783-9f3e-92181fa307f6n@googlegroups.com>, Thomas E. wrote:

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan
for all my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across
both platforms.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of
used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used
the external Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Typical Windows "advocate" logic, the built in mac laptop keyboard has less space for keys that are available on my full-sized external keyboard,
obviously Macs are worse... :)

--
Sandman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <0488e39b-14c6-44d3-9935-40ed8b45c845n@googlegroups.com>, Thomas E. wrote:

Thomas E.:
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys
for media app and Windows volume controls, the Media Center
app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac
keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.

Snit:
The full sized ones with keypads do.

Thomas E.:
I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.

Sandman:
So your windows notebook have a Logitech K350 keyboard built in?
That's a funky looking notebook, Tom. -- Sandman

Silly boy. My Logitech 350 is an external device. However my HP
notebook has delete and backspace, page up, page down, insert, home,
and end keys plus a numeric keypad with number lock. Does your Mac
laptop have any of those keys?

It does not, but that's hardly the point, now is it? Since all PC laptops does not have the aforementioned keys either, especially sub-17 laptops. One must wonder what use you have of such a huge laptop.

--
Sandman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:05:37 AM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:

In article <36b94b6a-3b7d-4a31...@googlegroups.com>, Thomas
E. wrote:

Thomas E.:
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app
and Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator
app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has
delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs
don't have both.

Snit:
The full sized ones with keypads do.

I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.

So your windows notebook have a Logitech K350 keyboard built in? That's a funky looking notebook, Tom.

--
Sandman

Silly boy. My Logitech 350 is an external device. However my HP notebook has delete and backspace, page up, page down, insert, home, and end keys plus a numeric keypad with number lock. Does your Mac laptop have any of those keys?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:24:30 AM UTC-7, Sandman wrote:

In article <0488e39b-14c6-44d3...@googlegroups.com>, Thomas E.
wrote:

Thomas E.:
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys
for media app and Windows volume controls, the Media Center
app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac
keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.

Snit:
The full sized ones with keypads do.

Thomas E.:
I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.

Sandman:
So your windows notebook have a Logitech K350 keyboard built in?
That's a funky looking notebook, Tom. -- Sandman

Silly boy. My Logitech 350 is an external device. However my HP
notebook has delete and backspace, page up, page down, insert, home,
and end keys plus a numeric keypad with number lock. Does your Mac
laptop have any of those keys?

It does not, but that's hardly the point, now is it? Since all PC laptops does
not have the aforementioned keys either, especially sub-17 laptops. One must wonder what use you have of such a huge laptop.

--
Sandman

What I learned is, when I have come across people calling themselves
"Trump Supporters" while biking, they weren't the usual idiot type that
likes to complain about so much. Why are such folks seemingly never happy.
What is wrong with them? You've proven that it is Sockboy. That is the
problem with millennials and newer instructors don't care at all; people
from past generations (~60 yo) *should* know better than to fall for
the indoctrination BS.


--
Get Rich Slow! https://gibiru.com/results.html?q=Dustin+Cook+%22functional+illiterate+fraud%22 https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Dustin+Cook+the+functional+illiterate+fraud
Steve Carroll the Narcissistic Bigot

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:19:19 AM UTC-7, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

-hh

Ryan Sullivan's essentially duping Snit to keep feeding him by trying
to 'produce screen casts', specifically, his clueless efforts and Snit's efforts to help him become a better instructor. He needs recognition,
and as long as you're willing to continue do his bidding, he'll remain.
Does Snit even believe the crap Ryan Sullivan is spewing? Ryan Sullivan
- who caused more errors applying his 'band-aids' than what the computer started with before he did a thing. It is the same thing that happens
in every group Ryan Sullivan infects.

Ryan Sullivan expects people to believe that a poster such as Snit who
he has regularly alleged to be a deceiver is someone to 'respect'? How
can he think people are THAT stupid?

--
This broke the Internet! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AglvCo3dJ38&feature=youtu.be
Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Petruzzellis

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

-hh

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.

Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.


-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.

Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.

-hh

Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.

No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.

My HP is great for typing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:14:59 AM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

-hh

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

You do realize that the massive floods ending up in multiple groups started out in COLA, right? How many more chances does Peter the Cöwardly Liön's very senseless ass (a brick knows more than Peter the Cöwardly Liön and
is useful) need to prove their Commander Kinsey spamming accusation with support? I am working on a script which will show off how weak Linux
is. He insists that he uses Linux, while you know he never saw it on
a real system and really pushed it. At one point, Peter the Cöwardly
Liön said a legitimate denizen was "obsessing" over him, which was nothing more than replying to his posts. Gee, imagine Peter the Cöwardly Liön
trying to pin his nonsense on others, no one has ever seen that before <sarcasm>.

Commander Kinsey's original statement stands true and correct.

--
Curious how these posts are made? Peter the Cöwardly Liön automates
them: https://youtu.be/hYQ4Tg0r0g0

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> ...

I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all... >>>>>>

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no >>>>> differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms. >>>> I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that

have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats. >>>>> My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.

Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.


-hh

Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.

No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.

My HP is great for typing.

I can't help noticing you've carefully avoided saying what your HP
laptop actually is.

So what is it?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 6:27:09 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.

Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.

Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS,
Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.

No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.

So they differentiate based on form factor (size) for where it is feasible.

Of course, it’s been over a decade since I’ve chosen a 15” laptop for mobility.

My HP is great for typing.

Could be; lots of folks any other aren’t touch-types, so they’ll be less sensitive
to a,crowded layout…probably also why Apple’s horrific keyboard failure went
unaddressed for far, far too long: I find TT on my MBP sucks.


-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:53:10 PM UTC-7, Alan Baker wrote:

On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> ...

I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms. >>>> I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that

have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats. >>>>> My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.

Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.


-hh

Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.

No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.

My HP is great for typing.

I can't help noticing you've carefully avoided saying what your HP
laptop actually is.

So what is it?

What is William Poaster's tool for the flooding crap? FileMaker? That is
the only database he knows, at least that I have seen. He must be programming it to create these stupid "attack" threads. My guess, William Poaster took Snit's code that he hacked and pretended was his... he is feeding it Google Groups data, grabbing random paragraphs, then editing those using the Baum–Welch
method and then he actively posts them because his obsessiveness enables
him to do that practically endlessly.

Which do you think is the better troll? Snit or William Poaster? I vote
for William Poaster; only because he occasionally does comprehend what he reads, even if, regrettably, he forgets it sometimes days later. I am about
to give up on him, myself. Like all losers, he is perpetually looking for
some way to attack, no matter how fantastic the charge. I will not read
his response to this post. He is humiliated, wants to blame others, and
will berate. Most likely opening with a conceited "*plonk*", as if what
I have written is _so_ off base. That BADish "approach" was about the last straw, for me. I'd reply to William Poaster at once but he is a cretin who twists what you say to implement his desire to call everyone a deceiver.

William Poaster - who caused more problems applying his 'band-aids' than
what the box started with before he did a thing.


--
E-commerce Simplified
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prZeTJKpc3Y https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-glasser-86860011
https://redd.it/6sfhq6
Steve Carroll the Narcissistic Bigot

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:33:29 PM UTC-7, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 6:27:09 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.

Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.

Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS,
Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.

No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.

So they differentiate based on form factor (size) for where it is feasible.

Of course, it’s been over a decade since I’ve chosen a 15” laptop for mobility.

My HP is great for typing.

Could be; lots of folks any other aren’t touch-types, so they’ll be less sensitive
to a,crowded layout…probably also why Apple’s horrific keyboard failure went
unaddressed for far, far too long: I find TT on my MBP sucks.

-hh

The "advocates" value the LCD above choice and productivity.

Rbowman continues to tap dance around the harassment allegation he wrote
about me, even tho Snit posted that he KNOWS HE LIED about it.

You're like a full moon on a cloudless night. We all see you hiding there
and thinking you are being clever. And you're so ignorant you keep doing
it. Rbowman can only speculate from the viewpoint of a psychopath. You can't go into a rave, piss in all the hooch, deck all the children, rob the bibles and blow chunks in the face of your host without being ridiculed.

I just use a kill filter and won't be impacted by the flooding. Rbowman's
crap has made an utter mess of my scripting via Google Groups, so I don't
make an attempt reading the group with my tablet anymore. Only thing he
has succeeded at with this flooding is that the Rbowman boycott has been
shown to clearly be the right thing.

Snit bamboozled Rbowman a bit, big f*cking deal. Why be a blubbering bastard about it?


-
What Every Entrepreneur Must Know! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AglvCo3dJ38&feature=youtu.be
Dustin Cook is a functional illiterate fraud

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

Well, it looks like I should have shaken the dead chicken & walked it around the house three times
after making that comment yesterday...

Its now nearly 10AM and I've had the pleasure of three (3) BSOD's this morning on my Windows PC;
it *finally* seems stable at the moment, possibly because I chose to not log into MS OneDrive (yet).

My guess is that it looks like they've added a Cloud-based web browser (Menlo security?) and
that may be fighting with the Cisco VPN software.

-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 9:57:17 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

Well, it looks like I should have shaken the dead chicken & walked it around the house three times
after making that comment yesterday...

Its now nearly 10AM and I've had the pleasure of three (3) BSOD's this morning on my Windows PC;
it *finally* seems stable at the moment, possibly because I chose to not log into MS OneDrive (yet).

My guess is that it looks like they've added a Cloud-based web browser (Menlo security?) and
that may be fighting with the Cisco VPN software.

-hh

All that security software can sure slow things down and cause issues. I had similar experiences when I was on the Eli Lilly network and our laptops were locked down.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:53:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:

On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> ...

I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms. >>>> I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that

have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats. >>>>> My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.

Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.


-hh

Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.

No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.

My HP is great for typing.

I can't help noticing you've carefully avoided saying what your HP
laptop actually is.

So what is it?

A 15" class Envy, 4 years old next December. Same one that was the subject of prior discussion, including DIY trackpad replacement in which you were very active. You have a very short memory.

Specs, note the keyboard.

HP ENVY Laptop - 15t touch H379430014
• HP ENVY - 15t Touch Laptop
• 1 TB PCIe® NVMe™ M.2 SSD
• Full-size island-style backlit keyboard
• 16GB DDR4-2133 SDRAM (2 x 8GB)
• Intel® 802.11ac (2x2) Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth® 4.2 Combo
• 15.6" diagonal FHD IPS UWVA BrightView WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080) Touchscreen (for HD Camera)
• Windows 10 Home 64
• HP Wide Vision HD Webcam with Dual Digital Microphone (For Touch)
• 3-cell 52 WHr Lithium-ion Battery
• Intel® Core™ i7-7560U (2.4 GHz, up to 3.8 GHz, 4 MB cache, 2 cores) + Intel® Iris™ Plus Graphics 640

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 6:57:17 AM UTC-7, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

Well, it looks like I should have shaken the dead chicken & walked it around the house three times
after making that comment yesterday...

Its now nearly 10AM and I've had the pleasure of three (3) BSOD's this morning on my Windows PC;
it *finally* seems stable at the moment, possibly because I chose to not log into MS OneDrive (yet).

My guess is that it looks like they've added a Cloud-based web browser (Menlo security?) and
that may be fighting with the Cisco VPN software.

-hh

Rbowman's allegation is misplaced up front, and not valid second of all.
Is Snit working on being just as much of a deceitful liar as Rbowman is
already known as being?

Do you believe the lies Rbowman is spewing?

There is no question this is an insomniac troll writing because some
of them are direct responses in very specific ways which proves they are
a response. Which can only be Rbowman. "Somewhere between 1995 or 2002
I trusted Snit, the absolutely angry liar" - Rbowman. I am a complete
fan of 3d printers, because that's where all the compelling ingenuity
is happening. Snit bamboozled Rbowman some, big fscking deal. No need
to be a whiny jackass about it?

I am about to give up on him, myself. Like all jerks, he is always looking
for some way to attack, no matter how goofy the allegation. I will not
see his response to this post. He is embarrassed, wants to blame others,
and will fly off the handle. Most likely starting with a dismissive "<crickets>",
as if what I've written is SO hard to understand. That BADish "response"
was the final indignity, for me.

--
This broke the Internet!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-glasser-86860011 https://www.google.com/search?q=dustin+cook+the+functionally+illiterate+fraud https://www.google.com/maps/place/108+Warrior+Dr,+Kingsport,+TN+37663/
Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Carroll

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-09-24 4:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:53:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:

On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>>>> ...

I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all... >>>>>>>>

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms. >>>>>> I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that

have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats. >>>>>>> My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.

Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.


-hh

Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.

No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.

My HP is great for typing.

I can't help noticing you've carefully avoided saying what your HP
laptop actually is.

So what is it?

A 15" class Envy, 4 years old next December. Same one that was the subject of prior discussion, including DIY trackpad replacement in which you were very active. You have a very short memory.

You have a tendency to lie.

Specs, note the keyboard.

HP ENVY Laptop - 15t touch H379430014
• HP ENVY - 15t Touch Laptop
• 1 TB PCIe® NVMe™ M.2 SSD
• Full-size island-style backlit keyboard
• 16GB DDR4-2133 SDRAM (2 x 8GB)
• Intel® 802.11ac (2x2) Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth® 4.2 Combo
• 15.6" diagonal FHD IPS UWVA BrightView WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080) Touchscreen (for HD Camera)
• Windows 10 Home 64
• HP Wide Vision HD Webcam with Dual Digital Microphone (For Touch)
• 3-cell 52 WHr Lithium-ion Battery
• Intel® Core™ i7-7560U (2.4 GHz, up to 3.8 GHz, 4 MB cache, 2 cores) + Intel® Iris™ Plus Graphics 640

No shock that when I search support:

'Please enter a valid serial number, product number or product name'


But here is a current offering in that same space (ENVY 15" touchscreen):

<https://www.hp.com/ca-en/shop/product.aspx?id=10M52UA&opt=ABL&sel=NTB>

Note the lack of a "full-size" keyboard.

There are currently only two "ENVY" HP laptops for sale with numeric
keypads...

...and they're both 17" displays.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 9:57:54 AM UTC-7, Alan Baker wrote:

On 2021-09-24 4:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:53:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:

On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote: >>>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>>>> ...

I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.

Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.

I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.

My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.

I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.

Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.

I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...

Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303

That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.

Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.


-hh

Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.

No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.

My HP is great for typing.

I can't help noticing you've carefully avoided saying what your HP
laptop actually is.

So what is it?

A 15" class Envy, 4 years old next December. Same one that was the subject of prior discussion, including DIY trackpad replacement in which you were very active. You have a very short memory.

You have a tendency to lie.

Specs, note the keyboard.

HP ENVY Laptop - 15t touch H379430014
• HP ENVY - 15t Touch Laptop
• 1 TB PCIe® NVMe™ M.2 SSD
• Full-size island-style backlit keyboard
• 16GB DDR4-2133 SDRAM (2 x 8GB)
• Intel® 802.11ac (2x2) Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth® 4.2 Combo
• 15.6" diagonal FHD IPS UWVA BrightView WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080) Touchscreen (for HD Camera)
• Windows 10 Home 64
• HP Wide Vision HD Webcam with Dual Digital Microphone (For Touch)
• 3-cell 52 WHr Lithium-ion Battery
• Intel® Core™ i7-7560U (2.4 GHz, up to 3.8 GHz, 4 MB cache, 2 cores) + Intel® Iris™ Plus Graphics 640

No shock that when I search support:

'Please enter a valid serial number, product number or product name'

But here is a current offering in that same space (ENVY 15" touchscreen):

<https://www.hp.com/ca-en/shop/product.aspx?id=10M52UA&opt=ABL&sel=NTB>

Note the lack of a "full-size" keyboard.

There are currently only two "ENVY" HP laptops for sale with numeric keypads...

...and they're both 17" displays.

Is Gregory Hall envious about Chris having six peer reviews papers warning people about what he is, vs the single one he earned? Time to blame the
lack of many eyes!

I could respond to Chris directly but he's an imbecile who distorts your
words to effect his craving to call everyone a troll.

Chris says I'm not 'able' to call out their lies, and they aren't going
to admit to any prior harm they caused. Rather, I'm expected to ignore
it all, and let them start from scratch so they can just repeat the process all over again, while they accept no responsibility for what they say and
do online towards myself?


--
Eight things to never feed your cat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AglvCo3dJ38&feature=youtu.be https://www.bing.com/search?q=Dustin+Cook+the+functional+illiterate+fraud https://www.prescotthouse.com/professional-staff/
Steve Petruzzellis the Narcissistic Bigot

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

He have tendency, not to know how to properly FORMAT TEXT.

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7-77-777
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On 2021-09-24, Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

On 2021-09-24 4:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:53:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:

On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> ... I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at >>>>>>>>>> all...

We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. >>>>>>>>> With the new layers, the PC's effective startup time has gone from a >>>>>>>>> ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before each of the indiv