XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

On 3/16/2022 11:22 PM, Alan wrote:

'Srouji recently spent several hours with Bloomberg
And guess what came to pass...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-25/chinese-state-banks-restrict-financing-for-russian-commodities
China State Banks Restrict Financing for Russian Commodities
Bloomberg News
February 25, 2022, 9:43 AM EST
At least two of China's largest state-owned banks are restricting financing
for purchases of Russian commodities, underscoring the limits of Beijing's pledge to maintain economic ties with one of its most important strategic partners in the face of sanctions by the U.S. and its allies.

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XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2022-03-17 6:25 a.m., Andy Burnelli wrote:

Your Name wrote:

Apple

Please do not respond to Alan Baker posts as EVERYONE has him plonked.
And the fact you reposted his idiocy means you're merely one of his socks.

I don't use socks except to point out that you are too cowardly to
address me.

I've never posted as "Your Name".

You, OTOH, regularly change your posting name to avoid killfiles.

FACT:
Nobody in high tech spends _less_ than Apple in R&D, nor more in
propaganda.

Lots of companies spend less.

Only a handful spend more.

Tell it to the Apple newsgroups.
They believe everything Apple feeds them.

Android owners aren't fooled by propaganda. Neither are Windows owners
fooled by propaganda.
Nor Linux owners.

Nobody on the adult operating system newsgroups believes mothership propaganda. The only people who fall for that crap are Apple users.

They _gloat_ over Apple profits as a result of drinking the kool-aid.
(Nobody on the adult OS newsgroups would gloat over mothership profits.)

Apple has never designed a best in class SOC in its entire history.
They can't. They won't. They never will.
They spend more in propaganda than they do in actuall design
(e.g., Apple touts "TSMC Silicon"... woo hoo!... like that's a big deal).

It isn't 'TSMC Silicon' when TSMC manufacturers for anyone but Apple...

...so why is that?

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On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 11:22:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

'Since 2010, when his team produced the A4 chip for the original iPad,
Apple has immersed itself in the costly and complex science of silicon.
It develops specialized microprocessors as a way to distinguish its
products from the competition. The Apple-designed circuits allow the
company to customize products to perfectly match the features of its software, while tightly controlling the critical trade-off between speed
and battery consumption. Among the components on its chip (technically called a “system on a chip,” or SOC) are an image signal processor and a storage controller, which let Apple tailor useful functions for taking
and storing photos, such as the rapid-fire “burst mode” introduced with the iPhone 5s. Engineers and designers can work on features like that
years in advance without prematurely notifying vendors—especially
Samsung, which manufactures many of Apple’s chips.'

<https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-johny-srouji-apple-chief-chipmaker/>

'Srouji recently spent several hours with Bloomberg Businessweek over several days and guided a tour of Apple chip facilities in Cupertino, Calif., and Herzliya, Israel.'

What? "Chip facilities"?

Surely the "chip facilities" are at TSMC.

'These mysterious semiconductors coming from Apple were the curiosity of
the tech industry, but it wasn’t until the release of the iPhone 5s in 2013 that rivals really started to pay attention. The phone featured the
A7 processor, the first smartphone chip with 64 bits—double the 32-bit standard at the time. '

"coming from Apple"? Surely that can't be! Surely the author must mean "coming from TSMC"!

'And since Apple is doing a fine job with mobile processors, it could conceivably decide to get into conventional chips and bump Intel out of
its Mac laptops and desktops. Srouji, of course, won’t go there, though
he does allow that his team’s mission is finite. “If we attempt to do everything on the planet,” he says, “I don’t think that would be very smart.”'

And guess what came to pass...

See

https://semiconductor.substack.com/p/the-apple-tsmc-partnership?s=r

They feed off each other

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2022-03-19 7:24 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 11:22:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

'Since 2010, when his team produced the A4 chip for the original iPad,
Apple has immersed itself in the costly and complex science of silicon.
It develops specialized microprocessors as a way to distinguish its
products from the competition. The Apple-designed circuits allow the
company to customize products to perfectly match the features of its
software, while tightly controlling the critical trade-off between speed
and battery consumption. Among the components on its chip (technically
called a “system on a chip,” or SOC) are an image signal processor and a >> storage controller, which let Apple tailor useful functions for taking
and storing photos, such as the rapid-fire “burst mode” introduced with >> the iPhone 5s. Engineers and designers can work on features like that
years in advance without prematurely notifying vendors—especially
Samsung, which manufactures many of Apple’s chips.'

<https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-johny-srouji-apple-chief-chipmaker/>

'Srouji recently spent several hours with Bloomberg Businessweek over
several days and guided a tour of Apple chip facilities in Cupertino,
Calif., and Herzliya, Israel.'

What? "Chip facilities"?

Surely the "chip facilities" are at TSMC.

'These mysterious semiconductors coming from Apple were the curiosity of
the tech industry, but it wasn’t until the release of the iPhone 5s in
2013 that rivals really started to pay attention. The phone featured the
A7 processor, the first smartphone chip with 64 bits—double the 32-bit
standard at the time. '

"coming from Apple"? Surely that can't be! Surely the author must mean
"coming from TSMC"!

'And since Apple is doing a fine job with mobile processors, it could
conceivably decide to get into conventional chips and bump Intel out of
its Mac laptops and desktops. Srouji, of course, won’t go there, though
he does allow that his team’s mission is finite. “If we attempt to do
everything on the planet,” he says, “I don’t think that would be very >> smart.”'

And guess what came to pass...

See

https://semiconductor.substack.com/p/the-apple-tsmc-partnership?s=r

They feed off each other

So what?

Does that change the fact that Apple Silicon is designed by Apple?

TSMC "feeds" anyone who PAYS them.

And those customers include:

Apple
MediaTek
AMD
Qualcomm
Broadcom
Nvidia
Sony
Marvell
STMicroelectronics
Analog Devices
Intel

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 1:36:11 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2022-03-19 7:24 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 11:22:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

'Since 2010, when his team produced the A4 chip for the original iPad,
Apple has immersed itself in the costly and complex science of silicon. >> It develops specialized microprocessors as a way to distinguish its
products from the competition. The Apple-designed circuits allow the
company to customize products to perfectly match the features of its
software, while tightly controlling the critical trade-off between speed >> and battery consumption. Among the components on its chip (technically
called a “system on a chip,” or SOC) are an image signal processor and a
storage controller, which let Apple tailor useful functions for taking
and storing photos, such as the rapid-fire “burst mode” introduced with
the iPhone 5s. Engineers and designers can work on features like that
years in advance without prematurely notifying vendors—especially
Samsung, which manufactures many of Apple’s chips.'

<https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-johny-srouji-apple-chief-chipmaker/>

'Srouji recently spent several hours with Bloomberg Businessweek over
several days and guided a tour of Apple chip facilities in Cupertino,
Calif., and Herzliya, Israel.'

What? "Chip facilities"?

Surely the "chip facilities" are at TSMC.

'These mysterious semiconductors coming from Apple were the curiosity of >> the tech industry, but it wasn’t until the release of the iPhone 5s in >> 2013 that rivals really started to pay attention. The phone featured the >> A7 processor, the first smartphone chip with 64 bits—double the 32-bit >> standard at the time. '

"coming from Apple"? Surely that can't be! Surely the author must mean
"coming from TSMC"!

'And since Apple is doing a fine job with mobile processors, it could
conceivably decide to get into conventional chips and bump Intel out of >> its Mac laptops and desktops. Srouji, of course, won’t go there, though >> he does allow that his team’s mission is finite. “If we attempt to do >> everything on the planet,” he says, “I don’t think that would be very
smart.”'

And guess what came to pass...

See

https://semiconductor.substack.com/p/the-apple-tsmc-partnership?s=r

They feed off each other

So what?

Does that change the fact that Apple Silicon is designed by Apple?

TSMC "feeds" anyone who PAYS them.

And those customers include:

Apple
MediaTek
AMD
Qualcomm
Broadcom
Nvidia
Sony
Marvell
STMicroelectronics
Analog Devices
Intel

Which makes them an even more formidable computer technology company than narrowly focused Apple.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2022-03-28 1:31 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 1:36:11 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2022-03-19 7:24 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 11:22:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

'Since 2010, when his team produced the A4 chip for the original iPad, >>>> Apple has immersed itself in the costly and complex science of silicon. >>>> It develops specialized microprocessors as a way to distinguish its
products from the competition. The Apple-designed circuits allow the
company to customize products to perfectly match the features of its
software, while tightly controlling the critical trade-off between speed >>>> and battery consumption. Among the components on its chip (technically >>>> called a “system on a chip,” or SOC) are an image signal processor and a
storage controller, which let Apple tailor useful functions for taking >>>> and storing photos, such as the rapid-fire “burst mode” introduced with
the iPhone 5s. Engineers and designers can work on features like that
years in advance without prematurely notifying vendors—especially
Samsung, which manufactures many of Apple’s chips.'

<https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-johny-srouji-apple-chief-chipmaker/>

'Srouji recently spent several hours with Bloomberg Businessweek over
several days and guided a tour of Apple chip facilities in Cupertino,
Calif., and Herzliya, Israel.'

What? "Chip facilities"?

Surely the "chip facilities" are at TSMC.

'These mysterious semiconductors coming from Apple were the curiosity of >>>> the tech industry, but it wasn’t until the release of the iPhone 5s in >>>> 2013 that rivals really started to pay attention. The phone featured the >>>> A7 processor, the first smartphone chip with 64 bits—double the 32-bit >>>> standard at the time. '

"coming from Apple"? Surely that can't be! Surely the author must mean >>>> "coming from TSMC"!

'And since Apple is doing a fine job with mobile processors, it could
conceivably decide to get into conventional chips and bump Intel out of >>>> its Mac laptops and desktops. Srouji, of course, won’t go there, though >>>> he does allow that his team’s mission is finite. “If we attempt to do >>>> everything on the planet,” he says, “I don’t think that would be very
smart.”'

And guess what came to pass...

See

https://semiconductor.substack.com/p/the-apple-tsmc-partnership?s=r

They feed off each other

So what?

Does that change the fact that Apple Silicon is designed by Apple?

TSMC "feeds" anyone who PAYS them.

And those customers include:

Apple
MediaTek
AMD
Qualcomm
Broadcom
Nvidia
Sony
Marvell
STMicroelectronics
Analog Devices
Intel

Which makes them an even more formidable computer technology company than narrowly focused Apple.

LOL!

Who is more "formidable", Liarboy?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Monday, March 28, 2022 at 5:03:31 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2022-03-28 1:31 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Saturday, March 19, 2022 at 1:36:11 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2022-03-19 7:24 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 11:22:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

'Since 2010, when his team produced the A4 chip for the original iPad, >>>> Apple has immersed itself in the costly and complex science of silicon. >>>> It develops specialized microprocessors as a way to distinguish its >>>> products from the competition. The Apple-designed circuits allow the >>>> company to customize products to perfectly match the features of its >>>> software, while tightly controlling the critical trade-off between speed
and battery consumption. Among the components on its chip (technically >>>> called a “system on a chip,” or SOC) are an image signal processor and a
storage controller, which let Apple tailor useful functions for taking >>>> and storing photos, such as the rapid-fire “burst mode” introduced with
the iPhone 5s. Engineers and designers can work on features like that >>>> years in advance without prematurely notifying vendors—especially >>>> Samsung, which manufactures many of Apple’s chips.'

<https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-johny-srouji-apple-chief-chipmaker/>

'Srouji recently spent several hours with Bloomberg Businessweek over >>>> several days and guided a tour of Apple chip facilities in Cupertino, >>>> Calif., and Herzliya, Israel.'

What? "Chip facilities"?

Surely the "chip facilities" are at TSMC.

'These mysterious semiconductors coming from Apple were the curiosity of
the tech industry, but it wasn’t until the release of the iPhone 5s in
2013 that rivals really started to pay attention. The phone featured the
A7 processor, the first smartphone chip with 64 bits—double the 32-bit
standard at the time. '

"coming from Apple"? Surely that can't be! Surely the author must mean >>>> "coming from TSMC"!

'And since Apple is doing a fine job with mobile processors, it could >>>> conceivably decide to get into conventional chips and bump Intel out of >>>> its Mac laptops and desktops. Srouji, of course, won’t go there, though
he does allow that his team’s mission is finite. “If we attempt to do
everything on the planet,” he says, “I don’t think that would be very
smart.”'

And guess what came to pass...

See

https://semiconductor.substack.com/p/the-apple-tsmc-partnership?s=r

They feed off each other

So what?

Does that change the fact that Apple Silicon is designed by Apple?

TSMC "feeds" anyone who PAYS them.

And those customers include:

Apple
MediaTek
AMD
Qualcomm
Broadcom
Nvidia
Sony
Marvell
STMicroelectronics
Analog Devices
Intel

Which makes them an even more formidable computer technology company than narrowly focused Apple.

LOL!

Who is more "formidable", Liarboy?

I'm still trying to figure out the point of this trolling thread-pull, because no manufacturer is perfectly vertically integrated. Case in point, just
what automaker runs their own steel mill for provisioning their body shop?
And what automaker runs their own iron mines to provision that steel mill?
And digs the coal for the coke furnaces too? And so on.

For digital tech, there's basically only two ways for any system developer
to spec out their motherboard components: they either buy commodity-
type commercial off-the-shelf components, or they go custom, which the
rest of the industry won't have IP access to. Particularly for the latter, the different pieces of it ... design, fab, testing, assembly, etc ... will either be done in-house, out-of-house, or some combination thereof.

Applying to Apple, they've chosen to do their main CPU in-house, with apparently the design being the main in-house element: I don't know
and don't care (because it doesn't matter) who was paid to develop
the mask, build the wafers, fab, dice, clean, test, bin, etc ... because
the end customer is still exclusively just Apple, so these are basic
"make or buy" program management decisions.

Likewise, for every other component besides the CPU, which also
includes similar management decisions of each, and this is both
"make-or-buy" as well as "in-house vs out-of-house": that's why Apple
can decide if to buy sold-as-COTS modems from Qualcomm & Intel as
well as if to go pay to develop their own in-house modem chip design.

And the modem chip is a decent illustration of how this has layers:
IIRC, the Qualcomm chip has been generally considered to have been
the best one out there, yet Apple was using both them & Intel, likely as
a business strategy to retain multiple qualified sources for supply chain
but also to limit price leveraging from Qualcomm (see royalties lawsuit).

I've not kept track of the timeline vs the royalties lawsuit, but with Intel apparently throwing in the towel on competing against Qualcomm, Apple
decided to purchase the Intel division and bring that work in-house: the
mere existence of that in-house team is at least a threat to Qualcomm's revenue stream's profit margins that can be used in price negotiations,
even if an in-house Apple modem never get used in an Apple product.
This is all just the "non-technical" financial side of doing business.


-hh

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