Il giorno dom 25 set 2022 alle 15:42:40 -05:00:00, Steven Robbins <steve@sumost.ca> ha scritto:

When I first started with Debian many many years ago, I would
routinely see
email for bug reports submitted against packages I maintain, and
responses to
said bugs. Nowadays I get essentially none of that.

Hi, I think that this is related to bug #754809.

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On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 03:42:40PM -0500, Steven Robbins wrote:

Hi,

When I first started with Debian many many years ago, I would routinely see email for bug reports submitted against packages I maintain, and responses to said bugs. Nowadays I get essentially none of that. The only way I see such responses is by perusing bugs via the web interface -- which I do infrequently
so messages languish.

I may have missed when something changed over the years. Is there something I
must do to get bugs.debian.org to reliably send me email?

I just noticed today that this applies even to responses that apparently directly CC my debian address; e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/ bugreport.cgi?bug=1020397;msg=10

I literally searched my mail logs for the Message-ID in question and it is not
reported. So it appears to have been hung up somewhere. How can I debug this?

I have sent a test email to my debian address and it came through. So I think
email is normally being delivered. Just not from bug reports.

Who is running the incoming mail server?

P.S. This has been happening for months if not years. It's just that I haven't been motivated to ask the question until now.

So the change might be "fresh".

P.P.S. I don't subscribe to any debian lists, so it is appreciated to directly cc me in replies.

You are welcome



Groeten
Geert Stappers
Runs his own mail server
--
Silence is hard to parse

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Copy: smr@debian.org (smr)

Hi,

When I first started with Debian many many years ago, I would routinely see email for bug reports submitted against packages I maintain, and responses to said bugs. Nowadays I get essentially none of that. The only way I see such responses is by perusing bugs via the web interface -- which I do infrequently so messages languish.

I may have missed when something changed over the years. Is there something I must do to get bugs.debian.org to reliably send me email?

I just noticed today that this applies even to responses that apparently directly CC my debian address; e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/ bugreport.cgi?bug=1020397;msg=10

I literally searched my mail logs for the Message-ID in question and it is not reported. So it appears to have been hung up somewhere. How can I debug
this?

I have sent a test email to my debian address and it came through. So I think email is normally being delivered. Just not from bug reports.

Thanks,
-Steve

P.S. This has been happening for months if not years. It's just that I haven't been motivated to ask the question until now.

P.P.S. I don't subscribe to any debian lists, so it is appreciated to
directly cc me in replies.


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On Sunday, September 25, 2022 3:49:37 P.M. CDT Geert Stappers wrote:

On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 03:42:40PM -0500, Steven Robbins wrote:

I just noticed today that this applies even to responses that apparently directly CC my debian address; e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/ bugreport.cgi?bug=1020397;msg=10

I literally searched my mail logs for the Message-ID in question and it is not reported. So it appears to have been hung up somewhere. How can I debug this?

I have sent a test email to my debian address and it came through. So I think email is normally being delivered. Just not from bug reports.

Who is running the incoming mail server?

The mail server is run by my ISP (shaw.ca). Using fetchmail, I pick up the email via IMAP and send it into my local server. So in my original message when I said I had checked the logs -- it was my local server logs.

To re-iterate: mail sent today to my debian address from outside debian came through OK. Mail sent from bugs.debian.org apparently does not. I think if there were any issue with the incoming email server (e.g. the DMARC thing that Andrea Pappacoda referenced) that would affect all email to me at debian, wouldn't it?

-Steve

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On Sun, 2022-09-25 at 15:42 -0500, Steven Robbins wrote:

When I first started with Debian many many years ago, I would
routinely see
email for bug reports submitted against packages I maintain, and
responses to
said bugs. Nowadays I get essentially none of that. The only way I
see such
responses is by perusing bugs via the web interface -- which I do infrequently
so messages languish.

I may have missed when something changed over the years. Is there
something I
must do to get bugs.debian.org to reliably send me email?

I just noticed today that this applies even to responses that
apparently
directly CC my debian address; e.g. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/ bugreport.cgi?bug=1020397;msg=10

The copy of that mail to your debian.org address is being rejected by
your mail server (slightly harvesting-fudged by me; the original log
has valid addresses):

2022-09-25 13:52:49 1obmVB-00FbmZ-3r == steve.robbins [at] shaw.ca
R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-46) H=shw-central.mx.a.cloudfilter.net [15.222.199.59] DT=4s: SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: 421 4.2.0 <debian [at] alteholz.de> sender rejected AUP#SNDR

If you want to know _why_, I suggest you talk to the mail server
operator and/or check your settings.

Regards,

Adam

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Steven Robbins <steve@sumost.ca> writes:

To re-iterate: mail sent today to my debian address from outside debian
came through OK. Mail sent from bugs.debian.org apparently does not. I think if there were any issue with the incoming email server (e.g. the
DMARC thing that Andrea Pappacoda referenced) that would affect all
email to me at debian, wouldn't it?

No, the annoying thing about the DMARC problem is that its effect depends
on the configuration settings of the person sending the email.

If someone sends mail from a domain that says all mail from that domain
will always have good DKIM signatures, and if the signature isn't present
or doesn't validate the mail should be rejected, and that message is
forwarded through bugs.debian.org to someone whose mail server honors
DMARC settings, the mail will be rejected. That's because the process of modifying the message in the way that bugs.debian.org needs to do (adding
the bug number to the Subject header, for instance) usually breaks the signature.

If you send mail from a domain that has a more relaxed (or no) DMARC configuration, then your mail will go through fine and you'll not see the problem.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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Thanks to all who responded. I have learned a lot!

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 4:57:19 P.M. CDT Russ Allbery wrote:

Steven Robbins <steve@sumost.ca> writes:

To re-iterate: mail sent today to my debian address from outside debian came through OK. Mail sent from bugs.debian.org apparently does not. I think if there were any issue with the incoming email server (e.g. the DMARC thing that Andrea Pappacoda referenced) that would affect all
email to me at debian, wouldn't it?

No, the annoying thing about the DMARC problem is that its effect depends
on the configuration settings of the person sending the email.

Oh! OK. So Adam Barratt found a log somewhere that confirms my ISP is blocking the sender.

If someone sends mail from a domain that says all mail from that domain
will always have good DKIM signatures, and if the signature isn't present
or doesn't validate the mail should be rejected, and that message is forwarded through bugs.debian.org to someone whose mail server honors
DMARC settings, the mail will be rejected. That's because the process of modifying the message in the way that bugs.debian.org needs to do (adding
the bug number to the Subject header, for instance) usually breaks the signature.

So are you effectively confirming this is indeed the DMARC bug [1] filed in 2014?

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754809

If you send mail from a domain that has a more relaxed (or no) DMARC configuration, then your mail will go through fine and you'll not see the problem.

Well, OK. But I'm the recipient not the sender so this advice is hard to implement :-)

-Steve

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Steven Robbins <steve@sumost.ca> writes:

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 4:57:19 P.M. CDT Russ Allbery wrote:

If someone sends mail from a domain that says all mail from that domain
will always have good DKIM signatures, and if the signature isn't
present or doesn't validate the mail should be rejected, and that
message is forwarded through bugs.debian.org to someone whose mail
server honors DMARC settings, the mail will be rejected. That's
because the process of modifying the message in the way that
bugs.debian.org needs to do (adding the bug number to the Subject
header, for instance) usually breaks the signature.

So are you effectively confirming this is indeed the DMARC bug [1] filed
in 2014?

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754809

Yeah, that's my guess. It's a very common problem.

The right solution is probably for bugs.debian.org to rewrite all incoming
mail to change the From header to a debian.org address (probably the bug address) and add a Reply-To header pointing to the original sender. This
is the fix that Mailman mostly uses, and it seems to work (I've had this problem with multiple mailing lists I run and turning on this message
mangling has fixed it). But of course someone has to find time to
implement this.

--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 07:00:38PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:

Steven Robbins <steve@sumost.ca> writes:

On Sunday, September 25, 2022 4:57:19 P.M. CDT Russ Allbery wrote:

If someone sends mail from a domain that says all mail from that domain
will always have good DKIM signatures, and if the signature isn't
present or doesn't validate the mail should be rejected, and that
message is forwarded through bugs.debian.org to someone whose mail
server honors DMARC settings, the mail will be rejected. That's
because the process of modifying the message in the way that
bugs.debian.org needs to do (adding the bug number to the Subject
header, for instance) usually breaks the signature.

So are you effectively confirming this is indeed the DMARC bug [1] filed
in 2014?

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=754809

Yeah, that's my guess. It's a very common problem.

The right solution is probably for bugs.debian.org to rewrite all incoming mail to change the From header to a debian.org address (probably the bug address) and add a Reply-To header pointing to the original sender. This
is the fix that Mailman mostly uses, and it seems to work (I've had this problem with multiple mailing lists I run and turning on this message mangling has fixed it). But of course someone has to find time to
implement this.

Yeah, what would be nice is if it massaged the From header to
something like this:

From: Theodore Tso <NNNNNN@bugs.debian.org>
Reply-to: Theodore Tso <tytso@mit.edu>

That makes things a bit friendlier for various mail user agents, while bypassing the DKIM signature problem. But as Russ said, the trick is
finding someone with time to implement the change in the Debian BTS...

- Ted

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Hello,

On Sun 25 Sep 2022 at 07:00PM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:

The right solution is probably for bugs.debian.org to rewrite all incoming mail to change the From header to a debian.org address (probably the bug address) and add a Reply-To header pointing to the original sender. This
is the fix that Mailman mostly uses, and it seems to work (I've had this problem with multiple mailing lists I run and turning on this message mangling has fixed it). But of course someone has to find time to
implement this.

ARC is meant to be an alternative to this, eventually, right?

--
Sean Whitton

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On Fri, 2022-09-30 at 08:00 -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:

On Sun 25 Sep 2022 at 07:00PM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:

The right solution is probably for bugs.debian.org to rewrite all incoming mail to change the From header to a debian.org address (probably the bug address) and add a Reply-To header pointing to the original sender.  This is the fix that Mailman mostly uses, and it seems to work (I've had this problem with multiple mailing lists I run and turning on this message mangling has fixed it).  But of course someone has to find time to implement this.

ARC is meant to be an alternative to this, eventually, right?

I doubt that. You would need to trust all mail relays (like lists.d.o)
to not be abusive, otherwise it would be trivial to abuse this.

Ansgar

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On Sep 30, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> wrote:

ARC is meant to be an alternative to this, eventually, right?

Right, but it has been such for so many years now that I am not holding
my breath waiting for it.

--
ciao,
Marco

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