• Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5

    From Paul Daniel@21:1/5 to fach220408.fwnsp@xoxy.net on Wed Apr 13 19:10:01 2022
    unsubscribe

    On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 12:27 AM Friedhelm Waitzmann < fach220408.fwnsp@xoxy.net> wrote:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA512

    Dear Moritz!

    Moritz Mühlenhoff:
    Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
    For the oldstable distribution (buster), these problems have
    been fixed in version 91.8.0esr-1~deb10u1.

    Where can I get this from for buster and architecture i386?
    < http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/buster/updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.xz

    does not have it.

    The Firefox ESR91 series triggers an internal compiler error
    with the GCC version included in Debian 10, so there's no build
    available currently.

    Thank you for defining this.


    There's one for Debian 11 (where GCC builds it correctly),


    In the near future I will migrate to Debian 11.


    but I'd instead suggest to switch to amd64 instead.


    You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware


    1#

    vendor_id : GenuineIntel
    cpu family : 6
    model : 22
    model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 440 @ 2.00GHz
    stepping : 1
    microcode : 0x43
    cpu MHz : 1229.629
    cache size : 512 KB

    and

    2#

    vendor_id : GenuineIntel
    cpu family : 15
    model : 2
    model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
    stepping : 4
    cpu MHz : 1993.656
    cache size : 512 KB

    ?

    And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to
    amd64? Can this be done with the apt tools? Then during the
    migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others
    will be still i386. How does that go right?



    I suggest, that further discussing should take place in debian-amd64@lists.debian.org.



    Kind regards,
    Friedhelm


    My OpenPGP‐Key:

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    <div dir="ltr">unsubscribe</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 12:27 AM Friedhelm Waitzmann &lt;<a href="mailto:fach220408.fwnsp@xoxy.net">fach220408.fwnsp@xoxy.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><
    blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
    Hash: SHA512<br>

    Dear Moritz!<br>

    Moritz Mühlenhoff:<br>
    &gt;Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; For the oldstable distribution (buster), these problems have <br> &gt;&gt;&gt; been fixed in version 91.8.0esr-1~deb10u1.<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;  Where can I get this from for buster and architecture i386? <br> &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/buster/updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.xz" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/buster/updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.xz</a>&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;  does not have it.<br>

    &gt;The Firefox ESR91 series triggers an internal compiler error <br>
    &gt;with the GCC version included in Debian 10, so there&#39;s no build <br> &gt;available currently.<br>

    Thank you for defining this. <br>


    &gt;There&#39;s one for Debian 11 (where GCC builds it correctly), <br> &gt;<br>

    In the near future I will migrate to Debian 11. <br>


    &gt;but I&#39;d instead suggest to switch to amd64 instead. <br>
    &gt;<br>

    You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware <br>


    1#<br>

    vendor_id       : GenuineIntel<br>
    cpu family      : 6<br>
    model           : 22<br>
    model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU          440  @ 2.00GHz<br> stepping        : 1<br>
    microcode       : 0x43<br>
    cpu MHz         : 1229.629<br>
    cache size      : 512 KB<br>

    and<br>

    2#<br>

    vendor_id       : GenuineIntel<br>
    cpu family      : 15<br>
    model           : 2<br>
    model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz<br>
    stepping        : 4<br>
    cpu MHz         : 1993.656<br>
    cache size      : 512 KB<br>

    ?<br>

    And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to <br>
    amd64?  Can this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the <br>
    migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others <br>
    will be still i386.  How does that go right?<br>



    I suggest, that further discussing should take place in<br>
    <a href="mailto:debian-amd64@lists.debian.org" target="_blank">debian-amd64@lists.debian.org</a>.<br>



    Kind regards,<br>
    Friedhelm<br>


    My OpenPGP‐Key:<br>

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  • From Jeffrey Walton@21:1/5 to mariannebayoy@gmail.com on Wed Apr 13 19:40:01 2022
    On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 1:22 PM Marianne Bayoy <mariannebayoy@gmail.com> wrote:

    Unsubscribe

    https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/unsubscribe

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  • From Marianne Bayoy@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 13 19:30:01 2022
    Unsubscribe

    Le mar. 12 avr. 2022, 12 h 27 a.m., Friedhelm Waitzmann < fach220408.fwnsp@xoxy.net> a écrit :

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA512

    Dear Moritz!

    Moritz Mühlenhoff:
    Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
    For the oldstable distribution (buster), these problems have
    been fixed in version 91.8.0esr-1~deb10u1.

    Where can I get this from for buster and architecture i386?
    < http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/buster/updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.xz

    does not have it.

    The Firefox ESR91 series triggers an internal compiler error
    with the GCC version included in Debian 10, so there's no build
    available currently.

    Thank you for defining this.


    There's one for Debian 11 (where GCC builds it correctly),


    In the near future I will migrate to Debian 11.


    but I'd instead suggest to switch to amd64 instead.


    You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware


    1#

    vendor_id : GenuineIntel
    cpu family : 6
    model : 22
    model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 440 @ 2.00GHz
    stepping : 1
    microcode : 0x43
    cpu MHz : 1229.629
    cache size : 512 KB

    and

    2#

    vendor_id : GenuineIntel
    cpu family : 15
    model : 2
    model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
    stepping : 4
    cpu MHz : 1993.656
    cache size : 512 KB

    ?

    And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to
    amd64? Can this be done with the apt tools? Then during the
    migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others
    will be still i386. How does that go right?



    I suggest, that further discussing should take place in debian-amd64@lists.debian.org.



    Kind regards,
    Friedhelm


    My OpenPGP‐Key:

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    <div dir="auto">Unsubscribe</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 12 avr. 2022, 12 h 27 a.m., Friedhelm Waitzmann &lt;<a href="mailto:fach220408.fwnsp@xoxy.net">fach220408.fwnsp@xoxy.net</a>&gt; a écrit :<br></div><
    blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
    Hash: SHA512<br>

    Dear Moritz!<br>

    Moritz Mühlenhoff:<br>
    &gt;Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; For the oldstable distribution (buster), these problems have <br> &gt;&gt;&gt; been fixed in version 91.8.0esr-1~deb10u1.<br>
    &gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;  Where can I get this from for buster and architecture i386? <br> &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href="http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/buster/updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.xz" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/buster/updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.xz</
    &gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;  does not have it.<br>

    &gt;The Firefox ESR91 series triggers an internal compiler error <br>
    &gt;with the GCC version included in Debian 10, so there&#39;s no build <br> &gt;available currently.<br>

    Thank you for defining this. <br>


    &gt;There&#39;s one for Debian 11 (where GCC builds it correctly), <br> &gt;<br>

    In the near future I will migrate to Debian 11. <br>


    &gt;but I&#39;d instead suggest to switch to amd64 instead. <br>
    &gt;<br>

    You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware <br>


    1#<br>

    vendor_id       : GenuineIntel<br>
    cpu family      : 6<br>
    model           : 22<br>
    model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU          440  @ 2.00GHz<br> stepping        : 1<br>
    microcode       : 0x43<br>
    cpu MHz         : 1229.629<br>
    cache size      : 512 KB<br>

    and<br>

    2#<br>

    vendor_id       : GenuineIntel<br>
    cpu family      : 15<br>
    model           : 2<br>
    model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz<br>
    stepping        : 4<br>
    cpu MHz         : 1993.656<br>
    cache size      : 512 KB<br>

    ?<br>

    And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to <br>
    amd64?  Can this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the <br>
    migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others <br>
    will be still i386.  How does that go right?<br>



    I suggest, that further discussing should take place in<br>
    <a href="mailto:debian-amd64@lists.debian.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">debian-amd64@lists.debian.org</a>.<br>



    Kind regards,<br>
    Friedhelm<br>


    My OpenPGP‐Key:<br>

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  • From Paul Wise@21:1/5 to Friedhelm Waitzmann on Thu Apr 14 10:40:01 2022
    On Tue, 2022-04-12 at 05:59 +0200, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:

    And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to
    amd64?  Can this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the
    migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others
    will be still i386.  How does that go right?

    If your hardware supports it, you can either reinstall from scratch or cross-grade an existing install from i386 to amd64, either using the crossgrader tool or more manual methods of doing the same thing.

    https://packages.debian.org/crossgrader
    https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading

    --
    bye,
    pabs

    https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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  • From Lennart Sorensen@21:1/5 to Levis Yarema on Fri Apr 15 05:10:01 2022
    On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 03:45:37PM +0200, Levis Yarema wrote:
    Is there in deed any reason to prefer amd64 over i586 if you have the
    choice and a machine with 2GB RAM or less, apart from perhaps long term support?

    Twice the registers and sse instructions for fpu rather than x87?

    --
    Len Sorensen

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Elmar Stellnberger@21:1/5 to Levis Yarema on Fri Apr 15 10:20:01 2022
    On 14.04.22 15:45, Levis Yarema wrote:
    Is there in deed any reason to prefer amd64 over i586 if you have the
    choice and a machine with 2GB RAM or less, apart from perhaps long term support?


    Depends on the application. Encryption and decryption
    requiring the simulation of very larger integers shall be faster
    when being based on 64bit integers. However these are rather
    special purposes.
    CPU and memory intense applications like the SAT-solver I am
    developing on the other hand will be faster on i386 since a
    memory reference/ pointer only requires 4 byte instead of 8
    byte. Smaller size will yield less memory access cycles and more
    cache hits and that can make an application considerably faster.
    It is the cache that is effectively more important than the
    register layout. Some SAT-solvers like f.i. the DNNF-c2d are
    only available for Linux/i386, not for amd64.
    Concerning general purpose applications normal integers keep
    to be 32bit even on amd64. Note the sizeof(int). This is also
    for the rationale described above. x86_32 programs can even be
    smaller on disk and in memory. I personally dont think that
    there is much reason to use amd64 with 2GB ram or less, except
    for bigint calculations.
    Note however that with a 64bit kernel you can execute programs
    in a 64bit and 32bit chroot while this is impossible with a
    32bit kernel. This is a reason why many people boot with a 64bit
    kernel but use a 32bit installation. As for certain CPU and
    memory intense programs you can run them as i386 binary even on
    an x86_64 root given that i386 system libararies are installed
    which is possible with dpkg --add-architecture i386.

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  • From Hendrik Boom@21:1/5 to Hendrik Boom on Fri Apr 15 17:00:01 2022
    On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:18:17AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
    ...
    ...

    And i you're runnin Lisp programs, you'll definitely want a 32-bit architecture, because Lisp fills memory with addresses. But you can do that with add-architecture i286.

    Typo: Of course I meant i386.


    -- hendrik


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  • From Hendrik Boom@21:1/5 to Elmar Stellnberger on Fri Apr 15 16:30:02 2022
    On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:12:23AM +0200, Elmar Stellnberger wrote:
    On 14.04.22 15:45, Levis Yarema wrote:
    Is there in deed any reason to prefer amd64 over i586 if you have the choice and a machine with 2GB RAM or less, apart from perhaps long term support?


    Depends on the application. Encryption and decryption
    requiring the simulation of very larger integers shall be faster
    when being based on 64bit integers. However these are rather
    special purposes.
    CPU and memory intense applications like the SAT-solver I am
    developing on the other hand will be faster on i386 since a
    memory reference/ pointer only requires 4 byte instead of 8
    byte. Smaller size will yield less memory access cycles and more
    cache hits and that can make an application considerably faster.
    It is the cache that is effectively more important than the
    register layout. Some SAT-solvers like f.i. the DNNF-c2d are
    only available for Linux/i386, not for amd64.
    Concerning general purpose applications normal integers keep
    to be 32bit even on amd64. Note the sizeof(int). This is also
    for the rationale described above. x86_32 programs can even be
    smaller on disk and in memory. I personally dont think that
    there is much reason to use amd64 with 2GB ram or less, except
    for bigint calculations.
    Note however that with a 64bit kernel you can execute programs
    in a 64bit and 32bit chroot while this is impossible with a
    32bit kernel. This is a reason why many people boot with a 64bit
    kernel but use a 32bit installation. As for certain CPU and
    memory intense programs you can run them as i386 binary even on
    an x86_64 root given that i386 system libararies are installed
    which is possible with dpkg --add-architecture i386.


    And i you're runnin Lisp programs, you'll definitely want a 32-bit architecture, because Lisp fills memory with addresses. But you can do that with add-architecture i286.

    -- hendrik

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  • From Lennart Sorensen@21:1/5 to Elmar Stellnberger on Sun Apr 17 21:50:01 2022
    On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 09:07:10AM +0200, Elmar Stellnberger wrote:
    That is not correct. You can make use of SSE instructions also in x86_32/i386 mode.

    I found f.i.:
    https://gcc.gcc.gnu.narkive.com/k0KqaZF2/i386-sse-test-question

    Well x86_64 uses it all the time, not just optionally, and twice the
    registers still matters.

    --
    Len Sorensen

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