On Mon, 2021-08-23 at 16:36 +0200, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021, Anthony G Basile wrote:
**WARNING**
If you happen to have an INSTALL_MASK with a blanket "*systemd*"
glob, you will inevitably break your system. sys-fs/udev
contains
"systemd" in some of its filenames, hence a blanket filter rule
will
likely lead to a non-functional udev installation.
Will an INSTALL_MASK of "/usr/lib/systemd /etc/systemd" cause any
issues?
I have not tested, but I think so since "systemd-" is used as a
prefix
for files installed by sys-fs/udev.
So, we've abandoned the systemd USE flag, and I remember that one of
the arguments was that users could use INSTALL_MASK for precisely the
above mentioned directories.
Now the message is that users' systems will be broken if they had
followed our previous advice? Seriously?
I'm pretty sure we've never officially advised anyone to remove
important directories via INSTALL_MASK. INSTALL_MASK on unit
directories will not affect udev users. On the other hand, if someone
was overzealous and stripped whole /lib/systemd... no compassion from
me, sorry.
Hi everyone,
Yes! It is time to finally deprecate eudev! sys-fs/udev now builds
under musl! My original purpose for maintaining eudev was because
systemd + musl did not play well together when udev was absorbed into
the sytemd repo. Now thanks to patches from openembedded, they do, and
my original reason for maintaining eudev is no longer valid. So its
time to retire eudev. It has served its purpose as a stop-gap.
To me, this is a success for musl, and I would like to thank all the developers who have taken musl seriously enough to make this happen :)
I am willing to transfer the eudev repo to another organization, but I
will not maintain it anymore and Base System doesn't want to either.
Let me warn people, to maintain it correctly you MUST become familiar
with its internals and watch what systemd is doing upstream to keep up.
This is not trivial. I learned a lot from eudev, and it did save musl
on gentoo, but there was a period there when it was taking up almost all
of my time. If you don't know what you're getting into, you don't want
to take on its maintenance.
Title: eudev retirement on 2022-01-01
Author: Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org>
Posted: 2021-08-xx
Revision: 1
News-Item-Format: 2.0
Display-If-Installed: sys-fs/eudev
sys-fs/udev is becoming the standard provider of udev on non-systemd
(e.g. OpenRC) systems. Users of systemd will continue to use the udev services provided by the sys-apps/systemd package itself.
The transition should be uneventful in most cases, but please read this
item in full to understand some possible corner cases.
eudev will be retired and removed from Gentoo on 2022-01-01. We will
start masking eudev on 2021-10-01 and give people 3 months to prepare
their transition. You should ensure that sys-fs/eudev is not in your
world file by running
emerge --deselect sys-fs/eudev
in order for Portage to replace eudev with sys-fs/udev once the
package.mask is in place. We fully support udev on musl, whereas uclibc
will still have to rely on eudev before also being removed on 2022-01-01.
**WARNING**
If you happen to have an INSTALL_MASK with a blanket "*systemd*" glob,
you will inevitably break your system. sys-fs/udev contains "systemd" in
some of its filenames, hence a blanket filter rule will likely lead to a non-functional udev installation.
Rationale
The integration of udev into the systemd git repo introduced numerous problems for none-glibc systems, such as musl and uclibc. Several
options were considered, and the one chosen was to fork and maintain
udev independant of the rest of systemd. This was meant as a stop-gap solution until such time as the problems with systemd on musl had been resolved. This is now the case with patches provided by openembedded,
and my original reason for maintaining eudev is no longer relevant.
I am willing to transfer eudev to another umbrella organisation or Linux distribution that is willing to continue its maintenance, but
maintaining eudev cannot be done purely through proxy-maintaining and requires an understanding of its internals. This is a steep learning
curve and must be an earnest effort. For this reason, the Base System
project has decided not to support euev as an option going forward.
Hi All,
We run glibc based systems. No musl. But we don't use systemd.
As little as a year back we still ran into issues with systemd-udev
variant breaking systems, the fix of course was to nuke it and install eudev. Are we certain there is nothing (eg, LVM integration was our
biggest problem resulting in really crazy impossible to debug since we
can't log in due to lvn snapshot creation/removal deadlocking with systemd-udev - no ask me not how, all I can tell you is that eudev never exhibited this behaviour) will break?
Whilst I fully appreciate the difficult of all the various e* packages (elogind, eudev etc ..) and I most certainly do not have the capacity to maintain, and therefore I'm in full support of the concept of
deprecating eudev, I'm very, very worried about us suddenly being back
into the reboot-a-server-a-week scenario. In the worst case we've lost
some large filesystems almost certainly due to systemd-udev (we've had a number of filesystem crashes which was recovered with fsck, but after ditching systemd-udev and moving to eudev about two years back on this specific host we've had ZERO further problems other than a failed drive
or two, none of which required a hard-reset to get back to a sane state).
Kind Regards,
Jaco
On 2021/08/22 22:14, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
Hi everyone,
Yes! It is time to finally deprecate eudev! sys-fs/udev now builds
under musl! My original purpose for maintaining eudev was because
systemd + musl did not play well together when udev was absorbed into
the sytemd repo. Now thanks to patches from openembedded, they do, and
my original reason for maintaining eudev is no longer valid. So its
time to retire eudev. It has served its purpose as a stop-gap.
To me, this is a success for musl, and I would like to thank all the
developers who have taken musl seriously enough to make this happen :)
I am willing to transfer the eudev repo to another organization, but I
will not maintain it anymore and Base System doesn't want to either.
Let me warn people, to maintain it correctly you MUST become familiar
with its internals and watch what systemd is doing upstream to keep up.
This is not trivial. I learned a lot from eudev, and it did save musl
on gentoo, but there was a period there when it was taking up almost all
of my time. If you don't know what you're getting into, you don't want
to take on its maintenance.
Title: eudev retirement on 2022-01-01
Author: Anthony G. Basile <blueness@gentoo.org>
Posted: 2021-08-xx
Revision: 1
News-Item-Format: 2.0
Display-If-Installed: sys-fs/eudev
sys-fs/udev is becoming the standard provider of udev on non-systemd
(e.g. OpenRC) systems. Users of systemd will continue to use the udev
services provided by the sys-apps/systemd package itself.
The transition should be uneventful in most cases, but please read this
item in full to understand some possible corner cases.
eudev will be retired and removed from Gentoo on 2022-01-01. We will
start masking eudev on 2021-10-01 and give people 3 months to prepare
their transition. You should ensure that sys-fs/eudev is not in your
world file by running
emerge --deselect sys-fs/eudev
in order for Portage to replace eudev with sys-fs/udev once the
package.mask is in place. We fully support udev on musl, whereas uclibc
will still have to rely on eudev before also being removed on 2022-01-01.
**WARNING**
If you happen to have an INSTALL_MASK with a blanket "*systemd*" glob,
you will inevitably break your system. sys-fs/udev contains "systemd" in
some of its filenames, hence a blanket filter rule will likely lead to a
non-functional udev installation.
Rationale
The integration of udev into the systemd git repo introduced numerous
problems for none-glibc systems, such as musl and uclibc. Several
options were considered, and the one chosen was to fork and maintain
udev independant of the rest of systemd. This was meant as a stop-gap
solution until such time as the problems with systemd on musl had been
resolved. This is now the case with patches provided by openembedded,
and my original reason for maintaining eudev is no longer relevant.
I am willing to transfer eudev to another umbrella organisation or Linux
distribution that is willing to continue its maintenance, but
maintaining eudev cannot be done purely through proxy-maintaining and
requires an understanding of its internals. This is a steep learning
curve and must be an earnest effort. For this reason, the Base System
project has decided not to support euev as an option going forward.
On 24 Aug 2021, at 11:24, Jaco Kroon <jaco@uls.co.za> wrote:
Hi All,
We run glibc based systems. No musl. But we don't use systemd.
As little as a year back we still ran into issues with systemd-udev
variant breaking systems, the fix of course was to nuke it and install
eudev. Are we certain there is nothing (eg, LVM integration was our
biggest problem resulting in really crazy impossible to debug since we
can't log in due to lvn snapshot creation/removal deadlocking with systemd-udev - no ask me not how, all I can tell you is that eudev never exhibited this behaviour) will break?
Whilst I fully appreciate the difficult of all the various e* packages (elogind, eudev etc ..) and I most certainly do not have the capacity to maintain, and therefore I'm in full support of the concept of
deprecating eudev, I'm very, very worried about us suddenly being back
into the reboot-a-server-a-week scenario. In the worst case we've lost
some large filesystems almost certainly due to systemd-udev (we've had a number of filesystem crashes which was recovered with fsck, but after ditching systemd-udev and moving to eudev about two years back on this specific host we've had ZERO further problems other than a failed drive
or two, none of which required a hard-reset to get back to a sane state).
Hi everyone,
Yes! It is time to finally deprecate eudev! sys-fs/udev now builds
under musl! My original purpose for maintaining eudev was because
systemd + musl did not play well together when udev was absorbed into
the sytemd repo. Now thanks to patches from openembedded, they do, and
my original reason for maintaining eudev is no longer valid. So its
time to retire eudev. It has served its purpose as a stop-gap.
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