• can't seem to pull in this ng from eternal-september..

    From AugustA@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 5 14:50:29 2023
    What's going on?

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  • From Ralph Fox@21:1/5 to AugustA on Mon Feb 6 15:38:02 2023
    On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 14:50:29 -0800 (PST), AugustA wrote:

    Subject: can't seem to pull in this ng from eternal-september..

    What's going on?


    You can get the answer from the horse's mouth, Eternal-September itself.

    1. Go to Eternal-September's website
    <https://www.eternal-september.org/>

    2. Look at the top of the right-hand column.

    3. Read the item beginning like this...

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    2023-02-03 11:18:29 microsoft.* hierarchy
    removed

    More than 10 years after Microsoft shut
    down their [...]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    If that is not enough, read the newsgroup eternal-september.support.

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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to AugustA on Mon Feb 6 14:39:15 2023
    "AugustA" <oggabo@gmail.com> wrote

    | What's going on?

    Ray, the owner of E-S, has decided to dump all MS
    groups. You can see discussion at eternal-september.support.
    People have been exploring options for a few days now.
    So far I've tried various things and can find only one
    open server that's working. There was one that
    Vanguard reccomended, something thing soralis. I
    signed up there but haven't yet had a response. Just
    now I found that paganini.bofh.team seems to work fine
    and has all groups. Just don't try to make it work
    encrypted. Use port 119.

    It looks like E-S is kaput. Ray seems to have some
    sort of grudge about MS, as do several regulars there.
    He says he dumped MS due to spam, whiich seems odd to
    me. In my experience these are among the very few groups
    that still get traffic with a minimum of spam. But I get
    the sense that it's not up for discussion.

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  • From AugustA@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 7 04:46:40 2023
    On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 2:39:32 PM UTC-5, Newyana2 wrote:

    Ray, the owner of E-S, has decided to dump all MS
    groups. You can see discussion at eternal-september.support.

    That's a shame because this sub-group was getting legitimate content and it was active.

    People have been exploring options for a few days now.
    So far I've tried various things and can find only one
    open server that's working. There was one that
    Vanguard reccomended, something thing soralis. I
    signed up there but haven't yet had a response. Just
    now I found that paganini.bofh.team seems to work fine
    and has all groups. Just don't try to make it work
    encrypted. Use port 119.

    Thx for the info. Will explore.


    It looks like E-S is kaput. Ray seems to have some
    sort of grudge about MS, as do several regulars there.
    He says he dumped MS due to spam, whiich seems odd to
    me. In my experience these are among the very few groups
    that still get traffic with a minimum of spam. But I get
    the sense that it's not up for discussion.

    Again, a shame. Too bad there wasn't a heads-up (advance warning) that we'd get cut off outright like that.

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  • From AugustA@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 7 04:50:55 2023
    On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 2:39:32 PM UTC-5, Newyana2 wrote:

    Ray, the owner of E-S, has decided to dump all MS
    groups. You can see discussion at eternal-september.support.

    BTW.. He still seems to carry the following. Maybe one of these hierarchies could work:

    alt.comp.os.windows-xp
    alt.os.windows-xp
    alt.windows-xp

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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to AugustA on Tue Feb 7 09:12:23 2023
    "AugustA" <oggabo@gmail.com> wrote

    | BTW.. He still seems to carry the following. Maybe one of these
    hierarchies could work:
    |
    | alt.comp.os.windows-xp
    | alt.os.windows-xp
    | alt.windows-xp
    |

    He's still carrying everything but Microsoft. He and
    some others seem to have some kind of religious
    resentment toward MS. (At least one of the people
    posting in support of the decision is a Mac fanatic.)

    There are no doubt thousands
    of groups that get close to zero traffic. I did a quick
    check of random outdated topics and found 6 Beatles
    groups, 5 for naturism (hobby nudity) and one for
    frisbees. :)

    In my experience, the MS groups have been the most
    active, most polite, and least spammy. Probably because
    they started out as active groups staffed by MVPs. So
    Ray's excuse doesn't hold water. And as you said, the
    whole thing was done in a rude, abrupt manner. But it's
    his show and it's free, so he can do as he likes.

    You can try the other XP groups. I used to subscribe
    to one of them. The problem, though, is that historically
    very few groups see traffic. The MS group is used because
    it's the only one still alive. (That die-off has also happened
    among MS groups. I used to subscribe to COM programming,
    win32 programming, WSH, etc. Gradually they all died out as
    MS lapdogs dutifully moved to the controlled web forums
    that MS owned, allowing them to reduce the forums to
    little more than marketing.)

    So the problem with going to alt* comp* groups is that
    it's moving into a ghost town. You moving in won't make
    people show up.

    And of course, usenet itself is dying. Young people want
    to compete for votes and be able to block voices they
    don't like. I suspect they view usenet as too "feral". They've
    never ventured outside the shopping mall.

    I did some research and was surprised to find that:

    * The vast majority using newsgroups are there to trade files.

    * Among free newsgroups, even the tech media don't know
    what's going on, nor do they apparently care.

    * In general, usenet is now equated with paid file trading services.

    * Lists of free access are all badly outdated.

    After trying a few, this seems to be the only one that
    works, and AIOE may be back eventually, but apparently
    AIOE had some kind of failure that won't be easy to fix.
    I'm surprised that there aren't a lot of colleges and non-profits
    offering connections. It seems there used to be, but
    virtually all have closed down.

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  • From AugustA@21:1/5 to Newyana2@invalid.nospam on Tue Feb 7 21:52:33 2023
    On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 09:12:23 -0500
    "Newyana2" <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:

    "AugustA" <oggabo@gmail.com> wrote

    | BTW.. He still seems to carry the following. Maybe one of these hierarchies could work:
    |
    | alt.comp.os.windows-xp
    | alt.os.windows-xp
    | alt.windows-xp
    |

    [...]

    You can try the other XP groups. I used to subscribe
    to one of them. The problem, though, is that historically
    very few groups see traffic. The MS group is used because
    it's the only one still alive.

    I just posted a "is anybody here.." message in two of the above.

    BTW.. I'm coming thru via paganini. Seems to be doable.


    (That die-off has also happened
    among MS groups. I used to subscribe to COM programming,
    win32 programming, WSH, etc. Gradually they all died out as
    MS lapdogs dutifully moved to the controlled web forums
    that MS owned, allowing them to reduce the forums to
    little more than marketing.)

    The webforum solution does not appeal to me.


    So the problem with going to alt* comp* groups is that
    it's moving into a ghost town. You moving in won't make
    people show up.

    True enough. But if you tell two friends and they tell two friends.. and so on, then maybe gradually it will populate. The key is to make people aware somehow that there are valid groups to chat in and meet-up there.

    And of course, usenet itself is dying. Young people want
    to compete for votes and be able to block voices they
    don't like. I suspect they view usenet as too "feral". They've
    never ventured outside the shopping mall.

    I'm not sure about that. But I think young people simply have no idea about usenet/nntp.

    After trying a few, this seems to be the only one that
    works, [...]

    Are you coming in from paganini?


    [...] and AIOE may be back eventually, but apparently
    AIOE had some kind of failure that won't be easy to fix.

    I heard that it is some sort of RAID failure.


    I'm surprised that there aren't a lot of colleges and non-profits
    offering connections. It seems there used to be, but
    virtually all have closed down.

    Don't know about that. Perhaps colleges and non-profits simply can't allocate funds to pay someone to keep a usenet services operational.

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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to AugustA on Tue Feb 7 22:45:03 2023
    "AugustA" <nospam@thankyou.invalid> wrote

    | Are you coming in from paganini?
    |
    Yes. It's the only one I found that works with both
    reading and posting. Interestingly, it wasn't listed on
    any "best free usenet 2023" webpages I found.

    I signed up with solani (solari?) but haven't heard back.

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  • From AugustA@21:1/5 to Newyana2@invalid.nospam on Wed Feb 8 08:37:02 2023
    On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 22:45:03 -0500
    "Newyana2" <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:

    "AugustA" <nospam@thankyou.invalid> wrote

    | Are you coming in from paganini?
    |
    Yes. It's the only one I found that works with both
    reading and posting. Interestingly, it wasn't listed on
    any "best free usenet 2023" webpages I found.

    There's actually some recent life in:

    alt.comp.os.windows-xp
    alt.os.windows-xp

    The following seem quiet though:

    alt.os.windows-xp
    alt.os.windows.xp

    It's almost a shame that there are so many similar-looking groups.



    I signed up with solani (solari?) but haven't heard back.

    Chime in when it works. Meanwhile, this isn't too bad.

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  • From AugustA@21:1/5 to Ralph Fox on Wed Feb 8 19:03:17 2023
    On Mon, 06 Feb 2023 15:38:02 +1300
    Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:

    3. Read the item beginning like this...

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    2023-02-03 11:18:29 microsoft.* hierarchy
    removed

    More than 10 years after Microsoft shut
    down their [...]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    If that is not enough, read the newsgroup eternal-september.support.

    I've read both. There is no explanation WHY the sudden cut-off though.
    It seems like a bad judgment imho.

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  • From Ralph Fox@21:1/5 to AugustA on Thu Feb 9 17:37:10 2023
    On Wed, 8 Feb 2023 19:03:17 -0500, AugustA wrote:

    I've read both. There is no explanation WHY the sudden cut-off though.
    It seems like a bad judgment imho.


    The ES Admin's (Ray Banana's) explanation WHY was, "in the light of
    the current influx of spam from Google to the microsft.* groups...".
    See the post "microsoft.* hierarchy removed from E-S" in eternal-september.support (copy below for your reference).

    You may not agree with his explanation why, but he is the one who made
    the decision -- not me, not anyone else replying in this here thread.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    From: Ray Banana <rayban@raybanana.net>
    Newsgroups: eternal-september.support
    Subject: microsoft.* hierarchy removed from E-S
    Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2023 11:38:23 +0100
    Message-ID: <m2v8kkbbds.fsf@raybanana.net>


    More than 11 years after Microsoft closed down their news server and the microsoft support groups, and in the light of the current influx of spam
    from Google to the microsft.* groups, this hierarchy has now been
    removed from Eternal-September. Good riddance.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ QUOTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to AugustA on Thu Feb 9 08:16:12 2023
    "AugustA" <nospam@thankyou.invalid> wrote

    | I've read both. There is no explanation WHY the sudden cut-off though.
    | It seems like a bad judgment imho.

    As Ralph's last post indicates, the man doesn't like MS
    and it's his server. That server is named Eternal
    September, so it seems likely that Ray is an oldtimer
    who only does this because he feels a kind of
    religious fealty to some idea of "the real Internet".
    Founders' neurosis. It happens in all areas of life.

    Judging from his "Good riddance" and deliberate
    lack of common courtesy, I'd further guess that he feels
    carrying MS groups in the past has been a dirty
    business; presumably because MS groups are an
    abomination in the pure religion of usenet. And he's
    not goiing to just say that, so he's muttering something
    about terrible spam.

    The bottom line is that the groups were available
    for years, at no cost, and Ray is not required to
    carry them. I would guess that usenet altogether
    will be gone before long. Maybe Facebook will bring
    back a facsimile. :) I was surprised, when I decided
    to look into it, that the very idea of text-based usenet
    has virtually disappeared. Anyone talking about
    newsgroups is talking about how much they pay to
    trade files. Young people only know the shopping
    mall model -- computing as entertainment service.

    Times are changing faster than ever. I have trouble
    these days just using my phone. People on cellphones
    want to text me, video call, reach me at any minute
    of the day.... A growing number of people simply
    doesn't conceive of a world where there are people who
    are not strapped to cellphones. Last week I was at a
    doctor's office. They wanted me to fill out forms. In
    typical fashion, they'd copied my "home" number into
    the cellphone field. I crossed it out, in the remote
    chance that a person might actually update records.

    Their software assumes a single phone number *must*
    be a cellphone, even thoughwidespread cellphone use
    is probably less than 15 years old. Then they told
    me the doctor would want to do a "tele-health" call
    later. "Make sure you turn on your camera." The
    Millennial receptionist had to check whether it's legal
    to tele-health via landline. (Presumably they really
    just had to check whether they can bill "tele-health"
    for what's clearly a phone call and not a "virtual visit".)

    So I guess it's not surprising if some people like Ray
    want to keep their rotary phone and call Information, for
    old times' sake. Then they fire up their computer and go
    to newsgroups to talk about punch card programming,
    just like the old men at the hardware store who think
    carpentry was ruined by the advent of power tools.
    ("Back then you had to know what you were doing.")

    Getting old is a humbling thing. And the worst of it
    is that young people simply can't grok that they'll get
    old, so they assume age is just a personal failing. These
    days, who can blame them? Jane Fonda and Madonna
    are not aging, after all.

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