I've set up a simple web interface to usenet, at https://cmacleod.me.uk/newsgrouper .
It's still in a rough state, which I hope to improve over the next few weeks, but I'm
mentioning it now since it may be of interest to people who have so far been accessing
usenet via Google Groups. You can read as a guest but you need to register to be able
to post. Only text-based groups are supported, no binaries. This is a free, hobby
project, and the service is guaranteed to be worth every penny you paid for it :-)
--
Colin Macleod.

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Colin Macleod <user7@cmacleod.me.uk.invalid> wrote:

I've set up a simple web interface to usenet, at https://cmacleod.me.uk/newsgrouper .
It's still in a rough state, which I hope to improve over the next few weeks, but I'm
mentioning it now since it may be of interest to people who have so far been accessing
usenet via Google Groups. You can read as a guest but you need to register to be able
to post. Only text-based groups are supported, no binaries. This is a free, hobby
project, and the service is guaranteed to be worth every penny you paid for it :-)

Can the line length be set to 76 characters by default? Can paragraphs
be reformatted in followup?

I'm not spotting any non-ASCII whitespace, so that's good.

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Colin Macleod <user7@cmacleod.me.uk.invalid> wrote:

I've set up a simple web interface to usenet, at https://cmacleod.me.uk/newsgrouper .

That link is redirecting to some sort of "noVNC" server control
panel webpage.

It's still in a rough state, which I hope to improve over the next few weeks, but I'm
mentioning it now since it may be of interest to people who have so far been accessing
usenet via Google Groups. You can read as a guest but you need to register to be able
to post. Only text-based groups are supported, no binaries. This is a free, hobby
project, and the service is guaranteed to be worth every penny you paid for it :-)

Are you planning to have infinite retention, or will articles
expire from it after a time?

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _# | Note: I won't see posts made from Google Groups |

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"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> posted:

Can the line length be set to 76 characters by default? Can paragraphs
be reformatted in followup?

Sorry, there's no such functionality so far, maybe later.
--
Colin Macleod.

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kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> posted:

I tried with the Guest login, but it doesn't seem like it lets me show
any groups so far.

Hi, You need to use the Find function at the bottom of the Groups screen
to search for the groups you want to see. You can search for a pattern
like comp.lang.* to see that whole hierarchy.
--
Colin Macleod.

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Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> posted:

Colin Macleod <user7@cmacleod.me.uk.invalid> wrote:

I've set up a simple web interface to usenet, at https://cmacleod.me.uk/newsgrouper .

That link is redirecting to some sort of "noVNC" server control
panel webpage.

Hi, yes it uses noVNC to display the UI. This requires a browser
compatible with noVNC, but these days most are. It's not really
usable on mobile devices yet, I hope to improve this. The architecture
can be summarised as nntp/Tcl/Redis/Tcl/Tk/Xvnc/Cloudflare/noVNC.

Are you planning to have infinite retention, or will articles
expire from it after a time?

I don't actually store most articles, I just pull them on-demand
(from eternal-september.org) and cache them locally. So in theory you
could go back as far as E-S does (8 years I think), but right now I'm
only pulling the last 500 articles in each group.

--
Colin Macleod.

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Colin Macleod <user7@cmacleod.me.uk.invalid> wrote:

"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> posted:

Can the line length be set to 76 characters by default? Can paragraphs
be reformatted in followup?

Sorry, there's no such functionality so far, maybe later.

What about MIME headers for the character set declaration? If you aren't
adding any, then the assumption should be non-ASCII aren't part of the
body of the article. I don't add MIME headers myself unless I should be
making the character set declaration.

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Colin Macleod wrote:

I've set up a simple web interface to usenet, [...]

Just a minor detail: Your article contains this header field:
|
| User-Agent: Newsgrouper 0.3

According to RFC 5536 it has the following syntax: <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.13>
|
| 3.2.13. User-Agent
|
| [...]
| user-agent = "User-Agent:" SP 1*product [CFWS] CRLF
| product = [CFWS] token [ [CFWS] "/" product-version ]
| product-version = [CFWS] token

A conformant parser should detect "0.3" as second <product>
(instead of <product-version> for "Newsgrouper").

You should consider this syntax:
|
| User-Agent: Newsgrouper/0.3

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Michael Bäuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de> wrote in news:AABlz3pmxyIAAAad.A3.flnews@WStation5.stz-e.de:

Colin Macleod wrote:

I've set up a simple web interface to usenet, [...]

Just a minor detail: Your article contains this header field:
|
| User-Agent: Newsgrouper 0.3

According to RFC 5536 it has the following syntax: <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5536#section-3.2.13>
|
| 3.2.13. User-Agent
|
| [...]
| user-agent = "User-Agent:" SP 1*product [CFWS] CRLF
| product = [CFWS] token [ [CFWS] "/" product-version ]
| product-version = [CFWS] token

A conformant parser should detect "0.3" as second <product>
(instead of <product-version> for "Newsgrouper").

You should consider this syntax:
|
| User-Agent: Newsgrouper/0.3

Ok, thanks for that :-)

--
Colin Macleod.

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Colin Macleod <user7@cmacleod.me.uk.invalid> wrote:

Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> posted:

Colin Macleod <user7@cmacleod.me.uk.invalid> wrote:

I've set up a simple web interface to usenet, at https://cmacleod.me.uk/newsgrouper .

That link is redirecting to some sort of "noVNC" server control
panel webpage.

Hi, yes it uses noVNC to display the UI. This requires a browser
compatible with noVNC, but these days most are.

Oh right, yes I was using a browser without Javascript support so
noVNC was just a mess of unhidden error messages and functionless
buttons. Probably for the best because I can't spare the internet
data for running VNC connections (which are impossibly laggy when
I have tried them via my rural mobile broadband home internet
anyway).

It's not really
usable on mobile devices yet, I hope to improve this. The architecture
can be summarised as nntp/Tcl/Redis/Tcl/Tk/Xvnc/Cloudflare/noVNC.

I see, I never considered that it might be implemented that way, I
was expecting some fairly bare-bones HTML. But I just assume
anything Usenet-related to be old-fashioned. I'm old-fashioned too,
so I'll stick to Narkive and the "Rocksolid" web gateways, which I
mainly use for viewing very old threads. Google Groups too, because
it can just about still be browsed in web browsers without
Javascript, but I assume you needed JS to log in and post so it
might not be a problem for GG refugees.

Are you planning to have infinite retention, or will articles
expire from it after a time?

I don't actually store most articles, I just pull them on-demand
(from eternal-september.org) and cache them locally. So in theory you
could go back as far as E-S does (8 years I think), but right now I'm
only pulling the last 500 articles in each group.

Ah right. If you do eventually provide the whole 8 years then maybe
put a limit on the age of posts that can be replied to? One great
advantage of Google pulling the plug on their gateway is that we
can be spared the eternal rebirth of decades-old threads by GG
users who are mysteriously incapable of reading dates.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _# | Note: I won't see posts made from Google Groups |

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not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) posted:

It's not really
usable on mobile devices yet, I hope to improve this. The architecture
can be summarised as nntp/Tcl/Redis/Tcl/Tk/Xvnc/Cloudflare/noVNC.

I see, I never considered that it might be implemented that way, I
was expecting some fairly bare-bones HTML.

I have now reimplemented Newsgrouper in "fairly bare-bones HTML",
partly because I couldn't get the noVNC-based version to be properly
usable on mobile devices. There are still many desirable features
that I have not implemented yet, but hope to get to eventually.
One aspect that may be of interest is that it supports the full set of newsgroups available on eternal-september.org, not just a pre-selected
subset as rslight does. It can be found at https://cmacleod.me.uk/ng

--
Colin Macleod.

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Colin Macleod <user7@cmacleod.me.uk.invalid> wrote:

not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) posted:

It's not really
usable on mobile devices yet, I hope to improve this. The architecture
can be summarised as nntp/Tcl/Redis/Tcl/Tk/Xvnc/Cloudflare/noVNC.

I see, I never considered that it might be implemented that way, I
was expecting some fairly bare-bones HTML.

I have now reimplemented Newsgrouper in "fairly bare-bones HTML",
partly because I couldn't get the noVNC-based version to be properly
usable on mobile devices. There are still many desirable features
that I have not implemented yet, but hope to get to eventually.
One aspect that may be of interest is that it supports the full set of newsgroups available on eternal-september.org, not just a pre-selected
subset as rslight does. It can be found at https://cmacleod.me.uk/ng

Nice, it works well now in Firefox. Sorting latest threads on the
bottom might confuse GG users who would be used to having them on
the top though. Links and Dillo don't seem to be compatible with
it, though GG was barely usable with them too. The "formaction"
parameters in the <input> tags aren't being recognised - why not
use ordinary links there? - but even manually going to: https://cmacleod.me.uk/news/guest
And pressing "Continue" doesn't log in for some reason, even though
cookies are enabled.

Perhaps an option to render posts in fixed-width font (inside
<pre></pre>) would be nice for alt.ascii-art etc.

Anyway great work, it's nice to see more alternatives.

This is a similar thing that was posted to a newsgroup recently,
though it has obviously been around for a while:
http://put.hk/

It has its own problems, though it sort-of works in lightweight web
browsers.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) posted:

Perhaps an option to render posts in fixed-width font (inside
<pre></pre>) would be nice for alt.ascii-art etc.

Clicking "View Source" at the bottom of a post will show it in
a fixed-width font, including all the headers.

--
Colin Macleod.

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Colin Macleod <user7@cmacleod.me.uk.invalid> Wrote in message:

I have now reimplemented Newsgrouper in "fairly bare-bones HTML",
partly because I couldn't get the noVNC-based version to be properly
usable on mobile devices. There are still many desirable features
that I have not implemented yet, but hope to get to eventually.
One aspect that may be of interest is that it supports the full set of newsgroups available on eternal-september.org, not just a pre-selected
subset as rslight does. It can be found at https://cmacleod.me.uk/ng

I works well here in Firefox on an Android tablet. I was surprised
to see it used tables! But I could restyle that to fit a small
display - eg to get time/date on a single line on the thread
list.

My main problem with it is that it's difficult to see where you
are in a long thread. I think it needs a 'thread view' page
similar to the one in this newsreader >https://www.cjoint.com/data/NDtglDXVqTA_Screenshot-20240419-070858-NewsGroup.jpg>
That's an app not a webpage but it could be a webpage, from which
you could open individual posts or (as in this app) a subthread
of unread posts.

Another way would be to open the thread with the read posts
'rolled up'. ISTR GG did that. Are you avoiding javascript?


One problem with showing the subthreads as vertical lines, as you
have, is that when there are many levels it takes up too much
space on a small screen. You could cram them together more and
colour them to make them easier to follow when scrolling, or have
alternate thick/thin/dotted lines or something.

When I built my own Android newsreader I tried vertical lines
first but abandoned that in favour of numbering the levels so
that each indent was only one character and each subject was
preceded by a level number. To find a reply to a post which is
off the bottom of the screen I scrolled down until to find the
same level number, rather than trying to follow the vertical
lines. I thought it worked well: email me (see sig) if you want a
screenshot and I'll find one.
--
Remove numerics from my email address.

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Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> posted:

Another way would be to open the thread with the read posts
'rolled up'. ISTR GG did that. Are you avoiding javascript?

Thanks for the feedback, that's a few things for me to think about.
Yes, I have avoided javascript so far.

--
Colin Macleod.

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On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 08:32:10 +0000, Colin Macleod wrote:

Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> posted:

Another way would be to open the thread with the read posts
'rolled up'. ISTR GG did that. Are you avoiding javascript?

Thanks for the feedback, that's a few things for me to think about.
Yes, I have avoided javascript so far.

The other feature which would require a bit of javascript is rolling-up
quoted text, with a button to reveal it. That would enormously reduce
scrolling and make responses more visible.

Using tables and 100% of the display width is easy, but on really small screens, tends to have unreadably-small fonts. On Android I usually
restyle such sites to make the important stuff - eg the post text -
viewable with a minimum of zooming at the expense of, say, date/times and
email addresses.

You could produce stylesheets yourself for small screens, or invite people
to contribute them. Either way may I suggest you liberally add IDs and
classes to your fields?

There is a site - https://mudcat.org - which was written in 1998 using
tables and lacks any CSS. As a result my sylesheets have lines like this:

body > table:nth-child(2) > tbody > tr > td:nth-child(1) > table {font- size...

So much easier if that was <td class="thread-subject"> or whatever.

Anyway, a promising start. Usable on Firefox on a 4½ iPhone - which,
unlike on Android, I cannot restyle.
--
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)

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Colin Macleod wrote:

not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) posted:

It's not really
usable on mobile devices yet, I hope to improve this. The architecture
can be summarised as nntp/Tcl/Redis/Tcl/Tk/Xvnc/Cloudflare/noVNC.

I see, I never considered that it might be implemented that way, I
was expecting some fairly bare-bones HTML.

I have now reimplemented Newsgrouper in "fairly bare-bones HTML",
partly because I couldn't get the noVNC-based version to be properly
usable on mobile devices. There are still many desirable features
that I have not implemented yet, but hope to get to eventually.

It's looking nice! Glad to see you avoiding javascript when possible.

One aspect that may be of interest is that it supports the full set of newsgroups available on eternal-september.org, not just a pre-selected
subset as rslight does. It can be found at https://cmacleod.me.uk/ng

It's good to note that there is a difference in intent between rslight and newsreaders (whether web based or not). RSLight is meant to act like a forum, and seems to work well for users not really familiar with the structure of Usenet. Newsgrouper is
good to give the Usenet "feel" to the site for those familiar with the structure.

Just my opinion. I think there is room for both styles, and I'm glad to see your project coming together :)

--
Retro Guy

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Anyway, a promising start. Usable on Firefox on a 4½ iPhone - which,
unlike on Android, I cannot restyle.

Nice!, btw where are you grabing newsgroups from? I notice
is missing the ones we carry hispagatos.* and alt.2600.madrid
even do most people I peer with if not all do carry them

Thanks!
Happy Hacking
ReK2
--
- {gemini,https}://{,rek2.}hispagatos.org - mastodon: @rek2@hispagatos.space
- [https|gemini]://2600.Madrid - https://hispagatos.space/@rek2
- https://keyoxide.org/A31C7CE19D9C58084EA42BA26C0B0D11E9303EC5

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Colin Macleod hat geschrieben:

I have now reimplemented Newsgrouper in "fairly bare-bones HTML",

This is the feature I like best.

And the only addition that I would qualify as an improvement, right now, is MIME support. For those of us who need strange letters in their content.
This can be a challenge as big as you want it to be, but examples exist. Browsers do awesome things nowadays. ;)

Cheerio.
--
F*k AI!

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rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.org.invalid> posted:

Nice!, btw where are you grabing newsgroups from? I notice
is missing the ones we carry hispagatos.* and alt.2600.madrid
even do most people I peer with if not all do carry them

Thanks. I'm pulling headers and articles on-demand from
eternal-september.org and then caching them on my server.
So the groups available are those carried by E-S.

--
Colin Macleod.

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On 2024-04-22, Colin Macleod <user7@cmacleod.me.uk.invalid> wrote:

rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.org.invalid> posted:

Nice!, btw where are you grabing newsgroups from? I notice
is missing the ones we carry hispagatos.* and alt.2600.madrid
even do most people I peer with if not all do carry them

Thanks. I'm pulling headers and articles on-demand from eternal-september.org and then caching them on my server.
So the groups available are those carried by E-S.

cool, yeah I am almost sure E-T do carry them, also peering with them.

Happy Hacking
ReK2

--
- {gemini,https}://{,rek2.}hispagatos.org - mastodon: @rek2@hispagatos.space
- [https|gemini]://2600.Madrid - https://hispagatos.space/@rek2
- https://keyoxide.org/A31C7CE19D9C58084EA42BA26C0B0D11E9303EC5

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