I've read many times that Tolkien's works were heavily influenced
by Finnish and Old Germanic (i.e. German, Scandinavian, Icelandish,
etc.) legends and folklore.
I was wondering if someone could point me to any specific works that
would have been an inspiration to Tolkien's works. Thanks.
On 29 May 2020 13:50:35 GMT, Faux Dameron wrote:
I've read many times that Tolkien's works were heavily influenced
by Finnish and Old Germanic (i.e. German, Scandinavian, Icelandish,
etc.) legends and folklore.
I was wondering if someone could point me to any specific works that
would have been an inspiration to Tolkien's works. Thanks.
The Kalevala, in particular the story of Kullervo. Somewhere in a
letter, I think, Tolkien actually said that Kullervo was the model
for Turin Turambar.
Here it is, from Letter 163, to W. H. Auden:
"I was immensely attracted by something in the air of the Kalevala,
even in Kirby?s poor translation. ... But the beginning of the
legendarium, of which the Trilogy is part (the conclusion), was in an
attempt to reorganize some of the Kalevala, especially the tale of
Kullervo the hapless, into a form of my own."
On Fri, 29 May 2020 07:35:30 -0700, Stan Brown wrote:
On 29 May 2020 13:50:35 GMT, Faux Dameron wrote:
I've read many times that Tolkien's works were heavily influenced
by Finnish and Old Germanic (i.e. German, Scandinavian, Icelandish,
etc.) legends and folklore.
I was wondering if someone could point me to any specific works that
would have been an inspiration to Tolkien's works. Thanks.
The Kalevala, in particular the story of Kullervo. Somewhere in a
letter, I think, Tolkien actually said that Kullervo was the model
for Turin Turambar.
Here it is, from Letter 163, to W. H. Auden:
"I was immensely attracted by something in the air of the Kalevala,
even in Kirby?s poor translation. ... But the beginning of the
legendarium, of which the Trilogy is part (the conclusion), was in an
attempt to reorganize some of the Kalevala, especially the tale of
Kullervo the hapless, into a form of my own."
The Kalevala has precursors for quite a few other things in Tolkien,
too. The quest for the Sampo and its aftermath are similar in quite a
few ways to the quest of the Silmaril. And in an early section of the Kalevala, a wizard in a predicament is rescued by a mighty eagle who remembers a favor the wizard did him long ago. Tor.com blogs once
published a post on the Kalevala here: https://www.tor.com/2011/09/20/the-beauty-of-the-kalevala/
which contains some advice on which translation to read. (Though you
can also find some older translations on Project Gutenberg, including
the Kirby translation which Tolkien read.)
As for Norse/Germanic mythology: Tolkien was also heavily influenced
by the Volsung cycle. You can easily find the /Volsung Saga/ either
online or in book form; the /Poetic Edda/ also contains stories from
it, as well as quite a bit else which influenced Tolkien. (E.g., the well-known list of dwarf-names which Tolkien raided for the names of
Thorin and Company.)
It?s easy to draw one-to-one lines between Wagner?s ring and Tolkien?s
ring, too. (It was the matter of my 12th-grade English term paper.)
On Fri, 29 May 2020 16:11:58 -0400, John W Kennedy wrote:
It?s easy to draw one-to-one lines between Wagner?s ring and Tolkien?s
ring, too. (It was the matter of my 12th-grade English term paper.)
And of a section of the FAQ of the Rings, too. (URL below.)
On Fri, 29 May 2020 14:59:17 -0700, Stan Brown wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2020 16:11:58 -0400, John W Kennedy wrote:
It?s easy to draw one-to-one lines between Wagner?s ring and Tolkien?s
ring, too. (It was the matter of my 12th-grade English term paper.)
And of a section of the FAQ of the Rings, too. (URL below.)
There have been whole books written about Wagnerian influence on
Tolkien. I recommend /Wagner and Tolkien: Mythmakers/ by Renee Vink.
It compiles so many parallels between /LotR/ and /Der Ring/ as to
leave me completely convinced that there was serious influence there--
even after allowing for common sources, which this book carefully
does.
On Fri, 29 May 2020 16:11:58 -0400, John W Kennedy wrote:
It?s easy to draw one-to-one lines between Wagner?s ring and Tolkien?s
ring, too. (It was the matter of my 12th-grade English term paper.)
And of a section of the FAQ of the Rings, too. (URL below.)
For those who aren't familiar with Wagner's version, there's a
Horribly Accurate Synopsis Of The Ring Cycle (tm) posted at
flyingmoose.org, home of the Tolkien Sarcasm Page. You can find it at:
http://flyingmoose.org/stage/ring.htm
On 5/29/20 9:03 PM, Steve Morrison wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2020 14:59:17 -0700, Stan Brown wrote:Perhaps I should remark that I graduated from high school in 1966.
On Fri, 29 May 2020 16:11:58 -0400, John W Kennedy wrote:
It?s easy to draw one-to-one lines between Wagner?s ring and Tolkien?s >>>> ring, too. (It was the matter of my 12th-grade English term paper.)
And of a section of the FAQ of the Rings, too. (URL below.)
There have been whole books written about Wagnerian influence on
Tolkien. I recommend /Wagner and Tolkien: Mythmakers/ by Renee Vink.
It compiles so many parallels between /LotR/ and /Der Ring/ as to
leave me completely convinced that there was serious influence there--
even after allowing for common sources, which this book carefully
does.
Lin Carter treated the subject in his book a few years later.
Well, heck! [Steve Morrison's] point is well taken, and I can't
imagine now how I
failed to notice that when reading /Letters/. I'll have to figure out
how to update the FAQ of the Rings.
The person posting as "A Tsar Is Born" made the case that
Wagner invented the idea of a ring-that-rules-the-world, which was
not part of the Norse source material. The same poster also pointed
out that Tolkien had been to performances of the Ring, and that
"every literate human being in Europe" in Tolkien's time knew
Wagner's story line.
Of course, Tolkien developed the idea in quite a different direction
from Wagner. But, despite Ohlmarks' misdirection, I think we are
right to compare Tolkien's Ring to Wagner's, without worrying too
much about the original Norse legends.
I've been rereading the Vink book, and it makes one interesting
point: when Tolkien made his oft-quoted "both rings were round, and
there the resemblance ceases" remark, he wasn't talking about Wagner
at all! Here is the remark in context:
/The Ring is in a certain way 'der Nibelungen Ring'. . . ./
Both rings were round, and there the resemblance ceases.
/. . . . which was originally forged by Volund the master-smith, and
then ...
As Tolkien points out, Ohlmarks's reference was to the Norse legends
rather than to Wagner's /Ring/.
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