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  • "Griping Strength"

    From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 6 03:04:59 2024
    When he assaulted Frodo on the slopes of Orodruin,
    the text says Gollum had lost "his old griping strength".

    This has survived all revisions so apparently the word
    choice is deliberate.

    But does it refer to grips or to gripes?

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From O. Sharp@21:1/5 to Louis Epstein on Fri Dec 6 22:12:50 2024
    Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> writes:

    When he assaulted Frodo on the slopes of Orodruin,
    the text says Gollum had lost "his old griping strength".

    This has survived all revisions so apparently the word
    choice is deliberate.

    But does it refer to grips or to gripes?

    The OED has "griping" with a few different, now mostly-obsolete uses:
    "grasps, or clutches tightly", for one. Like: "He seiz'd the shining Bough
    with griping hold" (1697). Another of its definitions indicates "Causing
    pain or distress, physical or mental", as "Oh grisly gripyng grief"
    (1577). I think either of these could safely fit with Gollum's (lack of) strength at this point, and we certainly know JRRT knew his OED and
    language history quite well. :)

    Though I admit I'm just as glad he didn't lean too much on the OED's
    _third_ obsolete definition of griping, "applied more or less spec. to spasmodic constricting pains in the bowels", as in 1732's "It excites
    Vomiting, sharp griping Pains, with wind in other Parts of the Bowels".
    That, I think, would have significantly muddled the focus of the scene,
    not to mention made it much less fun to read. :/

    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    ohh@panix.com Ewwwwwwwwwwwww. I just haven't even got a
    joke to make here. :/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to O. Sharp on Sat Dec 7 00:57:02 2024
    XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

    O. Sharp <ohh@panix.com> wrote:
    Louis Epstein <le@main.lekno.ws> writes:

    When he assaulted Frodo on the slopes of Orodruin,
    the text says Gollum had lost "his old griping strength".

    This has survived all revisions so apparently the word
    choice is deliberate.

    But does it refer to grips or to gripes?

    The OED has "griping" with a few different, now mostly-obsolete uses: "grasps, or clutches tightly", for one. Like: "He seiz'd the shining Bough with griping hold" (1697). Another of its definitions indicates "Causing
    pain or distress, physical or mental", as "Oh grisly gripyng grief"
    (1577). I think either of these could safely fit with Gollum's (lack of) strength at this point, and we certainly know JRRT knew his OED and
    language history quite well. :)

    I admit that I failed to consult my partial set of the OED 2nd
    (rescued from the discard bin at a local recycling center by
    someone who apparently never unloaded the rest) before posting
    though I considered doing so...I do in fact have the relevant
    volume (V) and from pages 849 ff. it appears that the distinction
    between grips and gripes is not as clear as I had assumed. :)

    Though I admit I'm just as glad he didn't lean too much on the OED's
    _third_ obsolete definition of griping, "applied more or less spec. to spasmodic constricting pains in the bowels", as in 1732's "It excites Vomiting, sharp griping Pains, with wind in other Parts of the Bowels".
    That, I think, would have significantly muddled the focus of the scene,
    not to mention made it much less fun to read. :/

    ----------------------------------------------------------------- ohh@panix.com Ewwwwwwwwwwwww. I just haven't even got a
    joke to make here. :/

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)