• Re: Bike tech idea for Jeff

    From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to frkrygow@sbcglobal.net on Tue Jan 21 11:44:44 2025
    On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:28:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging. >Here's an idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0OwuhFMf_o

    Nice idea. I like it. However, I don't think it will work for my
    situation. Offhand, the problems I see are:

    - I don't have a place where I could build a terminal or landing zone
    in a tree that has easy access to the house. I would need to go up
    between two trees and then walk across a bridge of sorts to get to the
    house. It can be done, but it won't be easy.

    - I'm rather old to be doing such things. Climbing the stairs wasn't
    much of a problem (and was good exercise) until about 2020, when I
    started having medical problems and had to stop such exercises.
    Unfortunately, I haven't recovered my former strength. Just riding a
    bicycle is a problem for me. A counter balance pulley system will be
    a big help, but will need to be adjusted every time I carry something
    heavy up the tree. Hauling myself and the bicycle up the tree is
    possible. Hauling myself plus 40 lbs or dry firewood (oak) or 60 lbs
    of green logs might be difficult.

    - If I haul myself plus 60 lbs of green logs up the hill, getting back
    down for another load is going to require removing 60 lbs of weight
    from the counter balance. That's about 7.5 gallons of water, which
    can be done possibly with a water pump.

    - My problem isn't so much getting myself up and down the stairs. My
    problem is with the stuff I usually carry up and down (firewood,
    furniture, tools, power equipment, groceries, lumber, generators, etc.
    If I take myself and the bicycle out of the equation, a pulley or
    winch system need only lift the stuff without adding myself and the
    bicycle to the burden. I'm considering something like a small
    motorized steep slope "railroad" car. There are plenty of suitable
    designs available which I can steal: <https://www.google.com/search?q=hillside%20lift&udm=2>

    Thanks for the suggestion (which got me thinking about the problem
    again). It will probably be a few years before I need to build
    something. One very useful takeaway is the Dyneema rope: <https://www.dyneema.com>
    I was going to use wire rope but I like the idea of making less noise.








    You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to frkrygow@sbcglobal.net on Tue Jan 21 22:01:35 2025
    On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 22:11:02 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 1/21/2025 2:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    Thanks for the suggestion (which got me thinking about the problem
    again). It will probably be a few years before I need to build
    something. One very useful takeaway is the Dyneema rope:
    <https://www.dyneema.com>
    I was going to use wire rope but I like the idea of making less noise.

    I'd never heard of that stuff. Its strength sounds amazing. I wonder
    about its abrasion resistance, though.

    It's also new to me. It's called UHMWPE (Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene). It's one of the polyolefin plastics (thermoplastic polyethylene). It's been around since the 1970's. I must have been
    asleep not to have noticed: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene>

    Abrasion resistance doesn't seem to be a problem. The manufactory
    claims "4X longer rope abrasion and creep lifetime compared to HMPE". <https://www.dyneema.com/sectors/offshore-energy/engineered-lifting-slings>

    I remember us talking about the inclined track idea. But there may be
    less elaborate methods that can do the job. I recall seeing, in some
    European city, double clotheslines strung between two buildings, running
    over a pulley at each building. Residents could haul their clothes in or
    out by pulling the rope along the pulleys.

    If I decide to do it crudely, something like that was my favored plan.
    Two trees with a pulley attached to each tree and a wire or rope loop
    in between. Maybe a spring to maintain tension. What stopped me from
    just building something and testing it was that there is no tree at
    the lower end of the hill that I can attach a pulley. The nearest
    trees are either 15 ft up the hill or across the road. I would need
    to bury a large concrete block in either my parking space or in the
    road. I have an idea for a compound pulley derangement that might
    minimize the tension on the lower anchor block.

    I wonder if a similar inclined cable could haul wood upstairs, from a >container hanging from one strand.

    Yes. That's roughly my plan. However, to prevent spilling the load
    on its way up, the container (box) will need to be supported by two
    slings to the cable. At this time, I carry the wood up the stairs
    using one or two CLC 390 canvas slings: <https://www.amazon.com/Custom-Leathercraft-C390-Canvas-Carrier/dp/B0001ZI53S> It works nicely. However, for a cable lift, I would need to wrap the
    load with a self tightening strap to prevent spilling the load.

    The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
    two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
    hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
    it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
    that require and extra person.

    Pedal drive would be charming, but an
    electric motor would be easier to implement. One benefit would be no >infrastructure except at the ends.

    Extrapolating my loss of strength and deteriorating stamina, I suspect
    that an electric motor will be best for the long term.

    Thanks again for the suggestions.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Wed Jan 22 11:07:05 2025
    On 1/22/2025 10:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 1/22/2025 1:01 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that
    it takes
    two people to operate.  One to load firewood at the bottom
    of the
    hill.  Another to unload the firewood at the top of the
    hill and throw
    it into a pile.  That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid
    solutions
    that require and extra person.

    That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in
    the attic of a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were
    in the basement-level garage. I realized pretty soon that if
    I'd forgotten to bring up a 3 pound hammer, I had to lift
    almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of that load was me.

    Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you
    to load the wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let
    the motor pull it up, and have the box dump wood onto an
    upper porch or whatever in response to a remote command. It
    sounds like an interesting challenge.



    I was thinking along those lines with a box on rails, line
    secured to the upper outside edge so it tips at the top. I
    couldn't think of a simple way to tip the box back up for
    the return. Complexity makes all this less attractive.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Thu Jan 23 12:07:14 2025
    On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:07:05 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 1/22/2025 10:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 1/22/2025 1:01 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that
    it takes
    two people to operate.� One to load firewood at the bottom
    of the
    hill.� Another to unload the firewood at the top of the
    hill and throw
    it into a pile.� That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid
    solutions
    that require and extra person.

    That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in
    the attic of a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were
    in the basement-level garage. I realized pretty soon that if
    I'd forgotten to bring up a 3 pound hammer, I had to lift
    almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of that load was me.

    Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you
    to load the wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let
    the motor pull it up, and have the box dump wood onto an
    upper porch or whatever in response to a remote command. It
    sounds like an interesting challenge.



    I was thinking along those lines with a box on rails, line
    secured to the upper outside edge so it tips at the top. I
    couldn't think of a simple way to tip the box back up for
    the return. Complexity makes all this less attractive.

    Maybe a backyard roller coaster? <https://www.google.com/search?q=backyard%20roller%20coaster&udm=2>
    That would take care of any bumps and turns. If I build it in a
    traditional endless loop (or possibly a Mobius strip), I wouldn't need
    to worry much about the return trip. The loop would go around the
    house which helps deliver firewood (or junk) to any part or level of
    the house. Maybe I couldn't fund the project by charging for rides.

    Tipping the box to unload works well for firewood, but not so well for groceries or the neighbors kids. I would also need to buy a neighbors
    empty lot because I don't really have enough land for proper turns. I
    built a temporary contraption the eliminated the tipping problem.
    Instead of a box carrier on rails, it was a rope loop and two pulleys
    suspended about 3 to 6 ft from the ground. The firewood was placed
    inside a canvas bag. The release mechanism was a slip knot holding
    the bag closed. One the load had been dumped, I could pull on the
    release rope to bring the canvas bag down to the start point. It had
    problems mostly because I used springy and stretchy nylon rope but did
    show some promise. I would prefer a box on rails, but the rope,
    pulleys, canvas bag and slip knot solution is less complexicated.

    I was also looking at backyard roller coasters and train kits for the
    design ideas and construction components. I haven't looked at specs
    yet but it should be possible. Uphill can be a powered bicycle chain
    (similar to the larger amusement park rides). <https://www.google.com/search?q=amusement%20park%20roller%20coaster%20chain%20lift&udm=2>
    <https://rollercoaster.fandom.com/wiki/Roller_Coaster_Wiki>

    Locally, we that a famous amusement park with a famous roller coaster: <https://www.google.com/search?q=santa%20cruz%20giant%20dipper&udm=2> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=giant%20dipper>
    We also have an assortment of small businesses who build and service
    amusement park rides. If I get bored with reinventing the wheel, I
    might be able to ask them for help (and parts).

    The difficult part (for me) will be preventing the local brats from
    joyriding the firewood box up and down the hill. I haven't asked my
    insurance agent if my homeowners insurance covers maintaining an
    attractive nuisance. Making the box small and removable should help.

    Thanks for the ideas but it might be a few years before I actually
    build anything. As I previously mentioned, the main objective is to
    carry about 2.5 cords per year of mostly white oak firewood up about
    50 stairs. That's 5,000 to 6,000 lbs per cord when green or about
    3,000 lbs when dry.
    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
    Prior to some medical problems, I was able to do this fairly well. I'm
    managing to do it this year, but just barely. I would much prefer to
    recover my strength and continue carrying the firewood up the hill
    than resorting to mechanical or electrical assistance.




    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to frkrygow@sbcglobal.net on Thu Jan 23 12:31:18 2025
    On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:52:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 1/22/2025 1:01 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
    two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
    hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
    it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
    that require an extra person.

    That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of
    a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
    garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
    pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of
    that load was me.

    It's called exercise. I drag all of this: <https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
    up about 50 stairs, every winter (about 5 months). My cardiologist
    claims that the exercise is all that keeps my alive. (He says that
    it's the only thing I'm doing right and everything else I'm doing is
    all wrong).

    Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the
    wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
    and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response
    to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

    It is interesting and I think about it often. The hillside is uneven
    and a cable delivery system avoids the problem. Additional
    complexications make it even more challenging. However, as long as
    I'm (barely) able to haul the firewood up the hill, I won't be
    building anything to make it easier. I really do need the exercise.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Thu Jan 23 17:17:40 2025
    On 1/23/2025 2:31 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:52:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 1/22/2025 1:01 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
    two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
    hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
    it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
    that require an extra person.

    That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of
    a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
    garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
    pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of
    that load was me.

    It's called exercise. I drag all of this: <https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
    up about 50 stairs, every winter (about 5 months). My cardiologist
    claims that the exercise is all that keeps my alive. (He says that
    it's the only thing I'm doing right and everything else I'm doing is
    all wrong).

    Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the
    wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
    and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response
    to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

    It is interesting and I think about it often. The hillside is uneven
    and a cable delivery system avoids the problem. Additional
    complexications make it even more challenging. However, as long as
    I'm (barely) able to haul the firewood up the hill, I won't be
    building anything to make it easier. I really do need the exercise.



    Does your stair have a railing? (if not, why not?)

    A fairly simple monorail box with a section on either side
    of the railing would do if you bring a light load per trip
    and do that with each trip up to the house.

    Simple stick type stop which would engage the balusters.

    Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
    on axles which cross from one box to the other.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to frkrygow@sbcglobal.net on Thu Jan 23 16:13:08 2025
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 16:34:43 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    (chomp)
    Maybe a simpler enhancement to the existing non-system? Do you
    physically lift the wood all the way up?

    Yes. I use one or two slings like this: <https://goclc.com/product/canvas-log-carrier/>

    The distance between the hand rails was too small for me to always use
    two slings, so I went up the stair sideways. After loosing some arm
    strength, I could no longer carry two slings and now use only one at a
    time. I could probably make something better by butchering one of my
    back packs.

    If so, maybe an inclined track
    added to the stairs or the handrails could act as a ramp, allowing
    rolling it part or all the way uphill. You'd still get the exercise of >lifting your body mass up, but you'd be applying less force to get the
    wood up.

    I had thought of attaching two rails on the stairs and climbing
    between them while pulling on a rail cart. The problem is that it
    would require some mechanism to keep the wheels of the cart going in a
    straight line or following a curve. That's usually done with an axle
    and tapered flanged wheels, something I would like to avoid. Some
    details: <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how%20train%20wheels%20go%20around%20turns>

    Or if you could install a vertical pole, you might be able to have a
    hoist trolley system - a vertical electric hoist rolling on a horizontal >track (like a jib crane) or on a cable to your upper porch.

    I could almost do that. The hillside is about 60 degrees from
    horizontal. In other words, it's almost a cliff. The flat roof makes
    it possible to extend the roofing beams out over the road. I then
    attach a trolley to the beam to form a jib crane. I can make that
    work, but I'm not sure I would want that on my house. I won't list
    the potential problems, but the one that bothers me most is the lack
    of access should something get hung up or tangled. At my age, tight
    rope and beam walking is not considered a good idea.

    I'd be interested in a better overall look at the property.

    I'll try to take some more photos and use a panorama program to stitch
    together to form a panorama. It would be nice to have such a thing. I
    already have one for the inside of the house (for insurance purposes).
    Yet another project...


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Thu Jan 23 17:38:20 2025
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 17:17:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 1/23/2025 2:31 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:52:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 1/22/2025 1:01 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
    two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
    hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw >>>> it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
    that require an extra person.

    That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of
    a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
    garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
    pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of
    that load was me.

    It's called exercise. I drag all of this:
    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
    up about 50 stairs, every winter (about 5 months). My cardiologist
    claims that the exercise is all that keeps my alive. (He says that
    it's the only thing I'm doing right and everything else I'm doing is
    all wrong).

    Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the >>> wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
    and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response
    to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

    It is interesting and I think about it often. The hillside is uneven
    and a cable delivery system avoids the problem. Additional
    complexications make it even more challenging. However, as long as
    I'm (barely) able to haul the firewood up the hill, I won't be
    building anything to make it easier. I really do need the exercise.



    Does your stair have a railing? (if not, why not?)

    The lower half of the stairs have handrails on both sides. The upper
    part has no handrails. Both parts need better guardrails which are
    currently not to code. It's my fault because I'm lazy and cheap. The
    lower part had better hand rails at one time, but had to be
    temporarily removed because of construction. Part of that was
    providing clearance for a large crane being used to remove some huge
    Douglas Fir trees across the road: <https://photos.app.goo.gl/m6Wu54S6FLfssG2c9>
    I'll add it to the "deferred maintenance" list of things to do
    eventually.

    A fairly simple monorail box with a section on either side
    of the railing would do if you bring a light load per trip
    and do that with each trip up to the house.

    I sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
    When green, it's about 40 lbs. A monorail on one side could be made
    to work. With a 60 degree angle from horizontal angle, I would need to
    pull the box uphill at:
    40 lb * sin(60) = 40 * 0.87 = 35 lbs.
    Better, but not really a major improvement. Of course, if the
    monorail was almost horizontal, like a railroad grade, the force
    required for me to drag the box up the stairs would be much less.

    Simple stick type stop which would engage the balusters.

    I'm not sure, but for outdoor stairs, I think the county now requires
    2x2 square balusters with a wired cable down the middle and at least a
    2x4 for hand rails.
    "Deck, Porch, Landing, Stair, Ramp, and Guard Construction" <https://cdi.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/35/CDI/UnifiedPermitCenter/Building/Forms%20&%20Publications/IB%20Publications/Deck%20Construction_IB900.pdf>
    I'll read through it (time permitting).

    Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
    on axles which cross from one box to the other.

    That won't go around corners very well. Going up from the road at the
    bottom, to the deck and door at the top, I count five 90 degree turns.
    I negotiate these with some difficulty using various hand trucks.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Thu Jan 23 19:42:52 2025
    On 1/23/2025 7:38 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 17:17:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 1/23/2025 2:31 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:52:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 1/22/2025 1:01 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
    two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
    hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw >>>>> it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
    that require an extra person.

    That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of >>>> a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
    garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
    pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of >>>> that load was me.

    It's called exercise. I drag all of this:
    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
    up about 50 stairs, every winter (about 5 months). My cardiologist
    claims that the exercise is all that keeps my alive. (He says that
    it's the only thing I'm doing right and everything else I'm doing is
    all wrong).

    Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the >>>> wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
    and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response >>>> to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

    It is interesting and I think about it often. The hillside is uneven
    and a cable delivery system avoids the problem. Additional
    complexications make it even more challenging. However, as long as
    I'm (barely) able to haul the firewood up the hill, I won't be
    building anything to make it easier. I really do need the exercise.



    Does your stair have a railing? (if not, why not?)

    The lower half of the stairs have handrails on both sides. The upper
    part has no handrails. Both parts need better guardrails which are
    currently not to code. It's my fault because I'm lazy and cheap. The
    lower part had better hand rails at one time, but had to be
    temporarily removed because of construction. Part of that was
    providing clearance for a large crane being used to remove some huge
    Douglas Fir trees across the road: <https://photos.app.goo.gl/m6Wu54S6FLfssG2c9>
    I'll add it to the "deferred maintenance" list of things to do
    eventually.

    A fairly simple monorail box with a section on either side
    of the railing would do if you bring a light load per trip
    and do that with each trip up to the house.

    I sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
    When green, it's about 40 lbs. A monorail on one side could be made
    to work. With a 60 degree angle from horizontal angle, I would need to
    pull the box uphill at:
    40 lb * sin(60) = 40 * 0.87 = 35 lbs.
    Better, but not really a major improvement. Of course, if the
    monorail was almost horizontal, like a railroad grade, the force
    required for me to drag the box up the stairs would be much less.

    Simple stick type stop which would engage the balusters.

    I'm not sure, but for outdoor stairs, I think the county now requires
    2x2 square balusters with a wired cable down the middle and at least a
    2x4 for hand rails.
    "Deck, Porch, Landing, Stair, Ramp, and Guard Construction" <https://cdi.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/35/CDI/UnifiedPermitCenter/Building/Forms%20&%20Publications/IB%20Publications/Deck%20Construction_IB900.pdf>
    I'll read through it (time permitting).

    Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
    on axles which cross from one box to the other.

    That won't go around corners very well. Going up from the road at the bottom, to the deck and door at the top, I count five 90 degree turns.
    I negotiate these with some difficulty using various hand trucks.


    90 degree turns? Yikes!
    That is indeed quite a problem for hauling firewood.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Thu Jan 23 18:00:56 2025
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 19:42:52 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 1/23/2025 7:38 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 17:17:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
    on axles which cross from one box to the other.

    That won't go around corners very well. Going up from the road at the
    bottom, to the deck and door at the top, I count five 90 degree turns.
    I negotiate these with some difficulty using various hand trucks.

    90 degree turns? Yikes!
    That is indeed quite a problem for hauling firewood.

    90 degree turns is not a problem when I'm climbing up the stairs.
    However, it will be a serious problem if I was riding (or guiding) a
    load of firewood on rails. Fortunately, there are places where I can
    go up the hill in a straight line and without 90 degree turns.
    Unfortunately, such places are not conveniently attached to the
    stairs.



    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Thu Jan 23 20:05:42 2025
    On 1/23/2025 7:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 17:38:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    A sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
    When green, it's about 40 lbs.

    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>


    Nice photo. THX.
    Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

    The heating season is only 7~8 months and I assume you
    leave the house and return at least once every two days on
    average. yes?

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to frkrygow@sbcglobal.net on Thu Jan 23 18:08:04 2025
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 20:45:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    Maybe add some close up photos of the stair details.

    That might be awkward. Various sections of the stairs were added or
    rebuilt in 4 different projects, at 4 different times, by 4 different carpenters, in 4 different ways over the past 50 years. Nothing of
    the original stairs from 50 years ago remains intact. Nothing fits
    together very well. That's one reason I wanted to lay a separate
    track up the hill and avoid doing anything with the stairs. I think
    it best to let bad ideas rest in peace.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Thu Jan 23 20:15:24 2025
    On 1/23/2025 8:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 19:42:52 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 1/23/2025 7:38 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 17:17:40 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
    on axles which cross from one box to the other.

    That won't go around corners very well. Going up from the road at the
    bottom, to the deck and door at the top, I count five 90 degree turns.
    I negotiate these with some difficulty using various hand trucks.

    90 degree turns? Yikes!
    That is indeed quite a problem for hauling firewood.

    90 degree turns is not a problem when I'm climbing up the stairs.
    However, it will be a serious problem if I was riding (or guiding) a
    load of firewood on rails. Fortunately, there are places where I can
    go up the hill in a straight line and without 90 degree turns.
    Unfortunately, such places are not conveniently attached to the
    stairs.




    OK then, here you go:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PgwIqE2kTw

    cargo example: https://bostondynamics.com/blog/from-margaritas-to-mars-an-interview-on-spots-custom-payloads/

    Looked for a price list but couldn't find it. You might
    volunteer to be a 5 year beta tester.


    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 23 17:55:56 2025
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 17:38:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    A sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
    When green, it's about 40 lbs.

    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Thu Jan 23 18:35:23 2025
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 20:05:42 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 1/23/2025 7:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 17:38:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    A sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
    When green, it's about 40 lbs.

    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

    Nice photo. THX.
    Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

    Thanks. I'm not a very good photographer. However, improvements in
    today's smartphone cameras have greatly improved the quality of my
    photography. Incidentally, I tried to load the "sling" with a mixture
    of firewood types to produce a better average weight.

    Yes, there's a reason I don't want to do light loads. Going up 50
    stairs, with no additional load (firewood, groceries, junk, etc) makes
    the muscles at the front of both legs, between the ankle and knee,
    rather tired and sore. It wasn't always this way, but that's the
    current situation. Near the end of the climb, I have trouble lifting
    my legs result in a tendency to trip of the stair treads, which is
    very dangerous. With more exercise, I'm getting better, but it will
    be some time before I can go up the stairs without becoming overly
    tired. Therefore, the project requires minimizing the number of trips
    up (and down) the stairs, at least until when my strength and stamina
    both return.

    The heating season is only 7~8 months and I assume you
    leave the house and return at least once every two days on
    average. yes?

    My schedule is a disorganized mess. Right now, the weather is
    unusually warm (thanks to global warming). The first real warming
    fire was in early Nov 2024. I expect warm weather to return in late
    Apr 2025. That's about 6 months of burning firewood. If we have a
    delayed rainy season, which appears to be the case, add one month.

    At least 1 day per week, I leave the house early and return late. In
    effect, I'm not home. Some weeks, that can be 2 or 3 days per week.

    At this time or year, to save on firewood, I don't start a fire until
    about 6pm. On really cold days, I might start at 4pm. I keep the
    fire burning to about midnight, when I put the largest log I can find
    on the fire and let it smolder all night. I'm still quite warm in the
    morning. It's now 6:30PM and 64F indoors with no additional heating.
    61F outdoors. If it remains this way, I probably will not start a
    fire.

    In terms of firewood consumption, I burn an average of 4 "bundles" of
    firewood (30 lbs) per day. That means 4 trips up and down the stairs
    per day. Sometimes one bundle more, sometimes less.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Fri Jan 24 07:53:22 2025
    On 1/23/2025 8:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 20:05:42 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 1/23/2025 7:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 17:38:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    A sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs. >>>> When green, it's about 40 lbs.

    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

    Nice photo. THX.
    Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

    Thanks. I'm not a very good photographer. However, improvements in
    today's smartphone cameras have greatly improved the quality of my photography. Incidentally, I tried to load the "sling" with a mixture
    of firewood types to produce a better average weight.

    Yes, there's a reason I don't want to do light loads. Going up 50
    stairs, with no additional load (firewood, groceries, junk, etc) makes
    the muscles at the front of both legs, between the ankle and knee,
    rather tired and sore. It wasn't always this way, but that's the
    current situation. Near the end of the climb, I have trouble lifting
    my legs result in a tendency to trip of the stair treads, which is
    very dangerous. With more exercise, I'm getting better, but it will
    be some time before I can go up the stairs without becoming overly
    tired. Therefore, the project requires minimizing the number of trips
    up (and down) the stairs, at least until when my strength and stamina
    both return.

    The heating season is only 7~8 months and I assume you
    leave the house and return at least once every two days on
    average. yes?

    My schedule is a disorganized mess. Right now, the weather is
    unusually warm (thanks to global warming). The first real warming
    fire was in early Nov 2024. I expect warm weather to return in late
    Apr 2025. That's about 6 months of burning firewood. If we have a
    delayed rainy season, which appears to be the case, add one month.

    At least 1 day per week, I leave the house early and return late. In
    effect, I'm not home. Some weeks, that can be 2 or 3 days per week.

    At this time or year, to save on firewood, I don't start a fire until
    about 6pm. On really cold days, I might start at 4pm. I keep the
    fire burning to about midnight, when I put the largest log I can find
    on the fire and let it smolder all night. I'm still quite warm in the morning. It's now 6:30PM and 64F indoors with no additional heating.
    61F outdoors. If it remains this way, I probably will not start a
    fire.

    In terms of firewood consumption, I burn an average of 4 "bundles" of firewood (30 lbs) per day. That means 4 trips up and down the stairs
    per day. Sometimes one bundle more, sometimes less.




    "the weather is unusually warm (thanks to global warming). "

    I wish.
    Dawn today minus 8F. Didn't ride. Again.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Kunich@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Fri Jan 24 16:11:54 2025
    On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:28:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

    For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.

    Here's an idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0OwuhFMf_o

    You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
    this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
    to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
    are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
    get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
    shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
    he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly. Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Tom Kunich on Fri Jan 24 10:18:23 2025
    On 1/24/2025 10:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
    On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:28:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

    For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.

    Here's an idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0OwuhFMf_o

    You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
    to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
    are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
    shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
    he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly. Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

    You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
    non sequiturs on RBT.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Shadow@21:1/5 to cyclintom@yahoo.com on Fri Jan 24 13:56:07 2025
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You and he ran right out
    to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
    are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to >get Covid-19.

    Is this a Musk thing, a Trump thing or did you just make it
    up?
    Links please.

    Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

    I don't believe the Moses guy put poison in the vaccines. If
    you have any proof he did, post the links.
    TIA
    []''s
    --
    Don't be evil - Google 2004
    We have a new policy - Google 2012
    Google Fuchsia - 2021

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to frkrygow@sbcglobal.net on Fri Jan 24 09:06:03 2025
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:43:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 1/23/2025 9:05 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/23/2025 7:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 17:38:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    A sling of firewood is not a light load.� I just weighed it at 30 lbs. >>>> When green, it's about 40 lbs.

    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>


    Nice photo. THX.
    Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

    I'll note that whatever Jeff weighs, he's got to haul his own weight
    upstairs every time me makes a trip. That argues for minimizing those trips.

    To get 60 pounds of firewood lifted 35 feet, a 175 pound man carrying
    one pound per trip would do 370,000 ft*lbs of work against gravity,
    which is mostly just repeatedly lifting his body mass. If he were able
    to carry the 60 pounds of wood in one trip, his work against gravity
    would be just 8200 ft*lbs, mostly because his body mass is lifted only once.

    Sorry, but I made a mistake. One load, as in the photo, would be only
    30 lbs. Divide all the above calculations by two. This is 30 lbs. <https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

    But human power output is not simple. Carrying 60 pounds might be
    impossible. Still, it seems there's some optimum size for the load.

    In the not so distant past, when I was younger and stronger, I could
    do it by carrying 60 lbs distributed in two slings. Actually, more
    like 50 lbs because my left arm is weaker than my right arm.

    Normally the best approach would be to avoid lifting the body mass. Jeff >wants exercise, but if we could work out a practical lift device, he
    could consider getting exercise some other way.

    I have a recumbent bicycle exercise machine. I don't like it, but use
    it when I feel like abusing myself.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Kunich@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Fri Jan 24 16:17:45 2025
    On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:28:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

    For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.

    Here's an idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0OwuhFMf_o

    You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

    That stuff is called "Spectra" and is used to make bullet proof vests.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Shadow@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 24 15:09:08 2025
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:33:28 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri Jan 24 10:18:23 2025 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/24/2025 10:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
    On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:28:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

    For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging. >> >>
    Here's an idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0OwuhFMf_o

    You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is >> > this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out >> > to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan >> > are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to >> > get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
    shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything >> > he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly. >> > Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

    You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
    non sequiturs on RBT.




    Excuse me but your discussion of physical exercise for Jeff is completely dangerous. Even something as light as his chopping wood is hardly safe.

    Japan Sounds Alarm as Heart Failure Surges 4900% Among Covid-Vaxxed

    LOL. I actually found that site. Although it gives no
    references at all. The main news there is that Putin is asking Trump
    for a meeting so Russia can concede in the war against the Ukraine.
    Sounds legit.

    And I like the cannabis ads on the site. "No prescription
    necessary". Looks legit too.

    There are no reports on Moses, though. Is he old #FAKE_NEWS?

    Found the link:

    <https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2022/heart-failure-patients-unvaccinated-against-covid-are-three-times-more-likely-to-die-from-it-than-boosted-heart-failure-patients>

    BTW, that's peer reviewed. Unlike youtube.
    []'s
    --
    Don't be evil - Google 2004
    We have a new policy - Google 2012
    Google Fuchsia - 2021

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to Shadow on Fri Jan 24 18:44:49 2025
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 15:09:08 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 17:33:28 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri Jan 24 10:18:23 2025 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/24/2025 10:11 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
    On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:28:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

    For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging. >>> >>
    Here's an idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0OwuhFMf_o

    You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
    this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out >>> > to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan >>> > are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
    get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
    shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
    he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
    Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

    You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
    non sequiturs on RBT.




    Excuse me but your discussion of physical exercise for Jeff is completely dangerous. Even something as light as his chopping wood is hardly safe.

    Japan Sounds Alarm as Heart Failure Surges 4900% Among Covid-Vaxxed

    LOL. I actually found that site. Although it gives no
    references at all.

    Thanks. Many web sites and Twitter postings which reference only each
    other. Start with a Google search: <https://www.google.com/search?q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed>
    <https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed&ia=web>
    None of the postings provided a link to the original source of the
    "alarm". There are some links to much earlier research, none of which
    mention a 4900% surge in heart failures. Announcing that it's from a
    Japanese source insures that something will be lost in the
    translation. Methinks this be garbage.

    The main news there is that Putin is asking Trump
    for a meeting so Russia can concede in the war against the Ukraine.
    Sounds legit.

    And I like the cannabis ads on the site. "No prescription
    necessary". Looks legit too.

    There are no reports on Moses, though. Is he old #FAKE_NEWS?

    Found the link:

    <https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2022/heart-failure-patients-unvaccinated-against-covid-are-three-times-more-likely-to-die-from-it-than-boosted-heart-failure-patients>

    BTW, that's peer reviewed. Unlike youtube.
    []'s


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to cyclintom@yahoo.com on Sat Jan 25 12:05:35 2025
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

    Not as serious as your problems.
    01/06/2023 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
    "I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
    back from the last step from death."


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Sat Jan 25 23:15:09 2025
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

    Not as serious as your problems.
    01/06/2023 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ> "I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
    back from the last step from death."


    Lord knows what the truth of Tom’s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely, potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his claims don’t correlate so difficult to know.

    I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
    and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

    Roger Merriman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to Roger Merriman on Sat Jan 25 19:22:19 2025
    On 25 Jan 2025 23:15:09 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

    Not as serious as your problems.
    01/06/2023
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ> >> "I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
    back from the last step from death."


    Lord knows what the truth of Tom�s disability is,

    No need to ask for a divine interpretation when it's much easier to
    ask the Alameda County Sheriff for the details:

    04/28/2010
    DUI arrest and non-appearance <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.htm>
    "Arrested For 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08" <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.html>
    "Arrested For WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"
    These would seem to suggest that excessive alcohol consumption may
    have been involved.

    Yet another hint: <https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
    "I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
    I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
    properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
    The "4 car wrecks" suggests that Tom tried very hard (4 times) to
    injure himself, but failed.

    Epilepsy seems likely,
    potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his >claims don�t correlate so difficult to know.

    The diagnosis and prognosis seems to change depending on whether Tom
    wants to play millionaire or victim. What I find amusing is that the
    original accident occurred in 2010 but Tom waiting 6 years to warn the
    world that all carbon fiber bicycles will self disassemble and injury
    the rider after about 2 years of riding. He uses himself as an
    example of two consecutive such a failures, allegedly on July 5 and
    July 10, 2016, which seems rather improbable because the accident
    occurred in 2010.

    "Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes" <https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
    "On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
    riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
    (July 10, 2016). <https://www.cyclingforums.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.453355/> (July 10, 2016) <https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1073471-danger-carbon-fiber-bikes.html>
    (July 10, 2016) <https://medium.com/@cyclintom/on-dec-18-2009-i-was-riding-my-bicycle-with-a-group-and-we-were-coming-off-of-a-bicycle-trail-9f9d582a9b42>
    (Dec 12, 2016).

    I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work >and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

    Roger Merriman

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Sun Jan 26 10:08:27 2025
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On 25 Jan 2025 23:15:09 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

    Not as serious as your problems.
    01/06/2023
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
    "I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
    back from the last step from death."


    Lord knows what the truth of Tom’s disability is,

    No need to ask for a divine interpretation when it's much easier to
    ask the Alameda County Sheriff for the details:

    04/28/2010
    DUI arrest and non-appearance <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.htm>
    "Arrested For 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08" <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.html>
    "Arrested For WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"
    These would seem to suggest that excessive alcohol consumption may
    have been involved.

    Oh I’m sure about that at least. Ie booze.

    Yet another hint: <https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
    "I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
    I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
    properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
    The "4 car wrecks" suggests that Tom tried very hard (4 times) to
    injure himself, but failed.

    Folks don’t tend to remember seizures, as generally it causes loss of consciousness or a degree of it, nor is there such as thing as severe concussion, it’s all a brain injury, though generally in lay terms and medical concussions are slightly separated mainly due to that people mostly recovering some folks do indeed get symptoms after hence the catchy term,
    post concussion syndrome.

    Ie are certainly folks who have symptoms that persist and the severity
    isn’t linear to the severity of the injury ie some folks seem to walk way from significant injury with out much disability others are less fortunate, which suggests that our understanding isn’t particularly good enough yet.


    Epilepsy seems likely,
    potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his >> claims don’t correlate so difficult to know.

    The diagnosis and prognosis seems to change depending on whether Tom
    wants to play millionaire or victim. What I find amusing is that the original accident occurred in 2010 but Tom waiting 6 years to warn the
    world that all carbon fiber bicycles will self disassemble and injury
    the rider after about 2 years of riding. He uses himself as an
    example of two consecutive such a failures, allegedly on July 5 and
    July 10, 2016, which seems rather improbable because the accident
    occurred in 2010.

    "Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes" <https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
    "On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
    riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
    (July 10, 2016). <https://www.cyclingforums.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.453355/>
    (July 10, 2016) <https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1073471-danger-carbon-fiber-bikes.html>
    (July 10, 2016) <https://medium.com/@cyclintom/on-dec-18-2009-i-was-riding-my-bicycle-with-a-group-and-we-were-coming-off-of-a-bicycle-trail-9f9d582a9b42>
    (Dec 12, 2016).

    That I have noticed yes.

    I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work >> and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

    Roger Merriman

    Roger Merriman

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  • From zen cycle@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Sun Jan 26 06:58:52 2025
    On 1/25/2025 10:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On 25 Jan 2025 23:15:09 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

    Not as serious as your problems.
    01/06/2023
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
    "I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
    back from the last step from death."


    Lord knows what the truth of Tom’s disability is,

    No need to ask for a divine interpretation when it's much easier to
    ask the Alameda County Sheriff for the details:

    04/28/2010
    DUI arrest and non-appearance <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.htm>
    "Arrested For 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08" <https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.html>
    "Arrested For WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"
    These would seem to suggest that excessive alcohol consumption may
    have been involved.

    Yet another hint: <https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
    "I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
    I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
    properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
    The "4 car wrecks" suggests that Tom tried very hard (4 times) to
    injure himself, but failed.

    Alcoholics tend to wreck their cars.


    Epilepsy seems likely,
    potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his >> claims don’t correlate so difficult to know.

    The diagnosis and prognosis seems to change depending on whether Tom
    wants to play millionaire or victim. What I find amusing is that the original accident occurred in 2010 but Tom waiting 6 years to warn the
    world that all carbon fiber bicycles will self disassemble and injury
    the rider after about 2 years of riding. He uses himself as an
    example of two consecutive such a failures, allegedly on July 5 and
    July 10, 2016, which seems rather improbable because the accident
    occurred in 2010.

    "Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes" <https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
    "On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
    riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
    (July 10, 2016). <https://www.cyclingforums.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.453355/>
    (July 10, 2016) <https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1073471-danger-carbon-fiber-bikes.html>
    (July 10, 2016) <https://medium.com/@cyclintom/on-dec-18-2009-i-was-riding-my-bicycle-with-a-group-and-we-were-coming-off-of-a-bicycle-trail-9f9d582a9b42>
    (Dec 12, 2016).

    I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work >> and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

    Roger Merriman


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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to zen cycle on Sun Jan 26 08:59:47 2025
    On 1/26/2025 5:58 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 1/25/2025 10:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On 25 Jan 2025 23:15:09 GMT, Roger Merriman
    <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    -snip much-


    "Alcoholics tend to wreck their cars."

    In a perfect world. In reality they are very hard on
    girlfriends' and buddies' cars.




    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Sun Jan 26 10:37:00 2025
    On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 08:59:47 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    On 1/26/2025 5:58 AM, zen cycle wrote:
    On 1/25/2025 10:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On 25 Jan 2025 23:15:09 GMT, Roger Merriman
    <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    -snip much-


    "Alcoholics tend to wreck their cars."

    In a perfect world. In reality they are very hard on
    girlfriends' and buddies' cars.

    Or their husband's cars..

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to funkmasterxx@hotmail.com on Sun Jan 26 13:19:02 2025
    On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 06:58:52 -0500, zen cycle
    <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 1/25/2025 10:22 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    Yet another hint:
    <https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/> >> "I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
    I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
    properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
    The "4 car wrecks" suggests that Tom tried very hard (4 times) to
    injure himself, but failed.

    Alcoholics tend to wreck their cars.

    True. I learned that early life. In college, when the horde wanted
    to visit the local bar for some special occasion, I was the designated
    driver. My price was they buy me dinner and they clean out the vomit
    from the upholstery.

    A previous place of employment was located next to the restaurant
    which offered a bar. We were celebrating someone's retirement after
    work. I usually drink something non-alcoholic at such occasions but
    this time, someone handed me some kind of drink, which I didn't
    realize was very strong. I sipped a small amount, didn't like it, and
    left the remainder in the glass.

    The party lasted 1 to 2 hours. On my drive home, my route crosses a
    railroad crossing. I saw the crossing lights flashing and the bells
    ringing but didn't see or hear a train or train horn. I stopped,
    looked to my left, looked to my right and only then noticed that the
    crossing gate was sitting on my windshield. I had stopped with the
    front of my truck very close to the tracks. That's also when I heard
    the train horn. I was obviously intoxicated. All I could do was
    backup, dragging the lowered crossing gate across my car hood which
    broke off the car antenna. The train did not hit me. When the train
    finally went past, I saw my neighbors also waiting for the train, but
    on the opposite side of the tracks. They were laughing. Over the
    next week, they made sure that everyone they knew heard the story.

    Today, the only drinking I do are the ritual 4 (small) cups of wine
    during the Passover Seder. There were a few other incidents, but none
    of them involved a potential car wreck.

    I wonder if Tom's auto insurance company had something to say after 4
    car wrecks, a DUI and a no show court appearance?




    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to cyclintom on Thu Jan 30 11:06:58 2025
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Sat Jan 25 23:15:09 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

    Not as serious as your problems.
    01/06/2023
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
    "I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
    back from the last step from death."


    Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely,
    potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his >> claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.

    I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work >> and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.




    The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy from the brain damage.

    Almost certainly though as ever unless there is a nice bit of scar tissue
    that can be picked up by scans it’s down to probability, of which it seemed rather likely that you had Epilepsy for ages just from what you reported.

    Roger Merriman

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Roger Merriman on Thu Jan 30 08:35:25 2025
    On 1/30/2025 5:06 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Sat Jan 25 23:15:09 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

    Not as serious as your problems.
    01/06/2023
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
    "I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
    back from the last step from death."


    Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely, >>> potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his >>> claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.

    I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work >>> and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.




    The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy
    from the brain damage.

    Almost certainly though as ever unless there is a nice bit of scar tissue that can be picked up by scans it’s down to probability, of which it seemed rather likely that you had Epilepsy for ages just from what you reported.

    Roger Merriman


    Hard to say but physical brain trauma can indeed result in
    epileptic symptoms.

    https://www.epilepsy.com/causes/structural/traumatic-brain-injury-and-epilepsy

    I knew such a sufferer. That said, we are not qualified to
    decide which was first.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Fri Jan 31 10:29:32 2025
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 1/30/2025 5:06 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Sat Jan 25 23:15:09 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. >>>>>
    Not as serious as your problems.
    01/06/2023
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
    "I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
    back from the last step from death."


    Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely, >>>> potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
    claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.

    I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
    and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.




    The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy >>> from the brain damage.

    Almost certainly though as ever unless there is a nice bit of scar tissue
    that can be picked up by scans it’s down to probability, of which it seemed
    rather likely that you had Epilepsy for ages just from what you reported.

    Roger Merriman


    Hard to say but physical brain trauma can indeed result in
    epileptic symptoms.

    https://www.epilepsy.com/causes/structural/traumatic-brain-injury-and-epilepsy

    Absolutely though as our scans are still quite basic, so a brain can appear normal despite symptoms of brain damage. Doesn’t mean it’s not there just our scans aren’t sophisticated enough, also just having some scars on the brain doesn’t mean your chances of epilepsy are 100%

    I believe the risks from Epilepsy ie chances post brain injury while
    remaining higher than, the population do drop significantly in the first
    few years.

    I knew such a sufferer. That said, we are not qualified to
    decide which was first.

    Nor would an epilepsy specialist in my experience they tend to work in probabilities than hard facts, folks can have scars and other things
    symptoms free, Epilepsy as with lot of brain conditions sometimes there
    isn’t a clear explanation ie no clear cause.

    Tom’s case where he reported some sort of head injury, yet claimed though seeing doctors and prescribed anti seizure medication that it wasn’t
    epilepsy I have enough experience both in my work and medical life to know
    this is unlikely.

    Let alone his history with being arrested for drink driving etc, which adds
    in another potential cause, than head trauma, it’s very unlikely they would of done a scan and found a scar, as no medical justification for such
    things, and scans tend to only pick up big stuff.

    His posting around this has been inconsistent and so on, hence my cynicism.

    Roger Merriman

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  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to cyclintom on Fri Jan 31 13:25:39 2025
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 30 11:06:58 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Sat Jan 25 23:15:09 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
    <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. >>>>>
    Not as serious as your problems.
    01/06/2023
    <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
    "I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
    back from the last step from death."


    Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely, >>>> potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
    claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.

    I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
    and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.




    The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy >>> from the brain damage.

    Almost certainly though as ever unless there is a nice bit of scar tissue
    that can be picked up by scans it?s down to probability, of which it seemed >> rather likely that you had Epilepsy for ages just from what you reported.




    Epilepsy can e one resule of a cobcussion Anotherbcan be av shurt term ubconciousness with no limgering after effects. Now tell me again that
    there is no mild or no severe. Why they are all the same according to you.


    Concussion is the mildest of the brain injuries it’s really lay speak older medical definition which doesn’t really fit into what we know now.

    Epilepsy can be caused by lots of things some major some minor, similar to diabetes for example which has more complicated causes than the “just
    eating too much” one of my relatives died from it post 1st world war
    probably triggered by trauma.

    The correlation between someone’s injuries and The level of disability isn’t linear, hence things like the Glasgow Coma score life expectancy/disability is good at the severe end (neither of us are) with
    folks who had low signal digit scores, and who may well have been in a coma
    for months/years.

    But folks in the moderate it’s much less so, and at mild it’s fairly useless, especially as we have learnt more, mainly how little we know as is
    the way of things.

    One of the newer relative speaking, is Post Concussion Syndrome as the realisation that even such “mild” conditions as Concussion can have long term consequences and the more research is done the more is found.

    Yes absolutely this stuff sucks and having a major impact called minor can rankle but that’s medical speak for you, plus the ever human urge to categories ie simplify what is complicated.

    If you wanted to avail yourself of facts there are number of US based brain injury associations and organisations.

    Roger Merriman

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