• 36 mm 8 point box wrench

    From bob prohaska@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 25 01:42:41 2022
    I'm likely to need a wrench similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-TL-DH10-36mm-Dynamo-Removal/dp/B00H6P8G80
    (Just the 36 mm side) in the next week or two.

    They aren't readily available, at least in the USA.

    Can anybody think of a substitute that's close enough to be
    filed and/or peened to get a decent fit? Max thickness has
    to be no more than about 1/8 inch. It's grabbing an aluminum
    part, so material strength isn't likely to be an issue. Full
    circle grip is important, as the nut is thin and surface loads
    high. The hub being worked on is already a little chewed up from
    using a wrench that engages only two flats.

    A thin 1-3/8" could be filed out, a 1-7/16" could be peened
    smaller and filed to fit.

    I started by looking at plumbing fitting wrenches and struck
    out. Anybody got a better idea?

    Thanks for reading,

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerry@21:1/5 to bp@www.zefox.net on Sun Jul 24 23:00:30 2022
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 01:42:41 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
    <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

    I'm likely to need a wrench similar to this: >https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-TL-DH10-36mm-Dynamo-Removal/dp/B00H6P8G80 >(Just the 36 mm side) in the next week or two.

    They aren't readily available, at least in the USA.

    Can anybody think of a substitute that's close enough to be
    filed and/or peened to get a decent fit? Max thickness has
    to be no more than about 1/8 inch. It's grabbing an aluminum
    part, so material strength isn't likely to be an issue. Full
    circle grip is important, as the nut is thin and surface loads
    high. The hub being worked on is already a little chewed up from
    using a wrench that engages only two flats.

    A thin 1-3/8" could be filed out, a 1-7/16" could be peened
    smaller and filed to fit.

    I started by looking at plumbing fitting wrenches and struck
    out. Anybody got a better idea?

    Thanks for reading,

    bob prohaska
    Looks like a relatively accurate layout job followed by work on the
    drill press, die grinder and finish with a hand file to me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to bp@www.zefox.net on Mon Jul 25 07:17:11 2022
    "Gerry" wrote in message news:8i1sdht27336f0eseks88otm5nvcu6btbl@4ax.com...

    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 01:42:41 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
    <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

    I'm likely to need a wrench similar to this: >https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-TL-DH10-36mm-Dynamo-Removal/dp/B00H6P8G80 >(Just the 36 mm side) in the next week or two.

    They aren't readily available, at least in the USA.

    Can anybody think of a substitute that's close enough to be
    filed and/or peened to get a decent fit? Max thickness has
    to be no more than about 1/8 inch. It's grabbing an aluminum
    part, so material strength isn't likely to be an issue. Full
    circle grip is important, as the nut is thin and surface loads
    high. The hub being worked on is already a little chewed up from
    using a wrench that engages only two flats.

    A thin 1-3/8" could be filed out, a 1-7/16" could be peened
    smaller and filed to fit.

    I started by looking at plumbing fitting wrenches and struck
    out. Anybody got a better idea?

    Thanks for reading,

    bob prohaska
    Looks like a relatively accurate layout job followed by work on the
    drill press, die grinder and finish with a hand file to me.

    ----------------------

    Mild steel can be sheared with a cold chisel by clamping it in a bench vise with the cut line at the top of the jaws. Start at a small drilled hole and angle the chisel. It's easier if the metal to be removed has been roughed nearly to size by drilling rows of holes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6YCaWvKmxY

    Amazon shows other 36mm box and socket wrenches here: https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W154-Front-Socket/dp/B000N35JVE?th=1

    How is your battery project doing?

    I bought a Weize 12V 18Ah LiFePO4 for a fairly reasonable $70 but the price soon jumped to $100. Although the terminals are different it fit well into
    an older yellow HF 5-in-1 power pack. I changed one of the cigarette lighter outlets into Anderson PP45 on thicker wires so a 300 or 500W Bestek true
    sine inverter will plug in, with less voltage drop. The pack already has a
    mod sine 120VAC inverter and an air compressor, the function I use most. The 300W Bestek is my answer to chargers and power bricks that may have
    capacitive AC inputs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bob prohaska@21:1/5 to Gerry on Mon Jul 25 16:33:45 2022
    Gerry <geraldrmiller@yahoo.ca> wrote:
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 01:42:41 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
    <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

    I'm likely to need a wrench similar to this: >>https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-TL-DH10-36mm-Dynamo-Removal/dp/B00H6P8G80 >>(Just the 36 mm side) in the next week or two.

    They aren't readily available, at least in the USA.

    Can anybody think of a substitute that's close enough to be
    filed and/or peened to get a decent fit? Max thickness has
    to be no more than about 1/8 inch. It's grabbing an aluminum
    bob prohaska

    Looks like a relatively accurate layout job followed by work on the
    drill press, die grinder and finish with a hand file to me.

    Yes, but I still need the starting material. If I have to buy
    _something_ I'd prefer it be at least close to the right size
    and shape.

    Thanks for writing,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bob prohaska@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon Jul 25 16:30:09 2022
    Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    Mild steel can be sheared with a cold chisel by clamping it in a bench vise with the cut line at the top of the jaws. Start at a small drilled hole and angle the chisel. It's easier if the metal to be removed has been roughed nearly to size by drilling rows of holes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6YCaWvKmxY

    Amazon shows other 36mm box and socket wrenches here: https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W154-Front-Socket/dp/B000N35JVE?th=1


    Much too much 8-)

    I neglected to mention that the 1/8" thick requirement was to clear
    an electrical connector integral to the part. It'd take a lot of
    grinding to make a clearance window in a socket and it's kinda hard
    to file extra points in a socket. A flat stamped wrench is, if not
    essential, a much better starting point and hopefully cheaper too.

    How is your battery project doing?


    Since you ask, I'll post an update to the homepower newsgroup....

    Thanks for writing,

    bob prohaska



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to bob prohaska on Mon Jul 25 14:12:45 2022
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 16:33:45 -0000 (UTC)
    bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

    <snip>
    Yes, but I still need the starting material. If I have to buy
    _something_ I'd prefer it be at least close to the right size
    and shape.


    Seems you are working on a Dynamo Hub?

    https://www.nashbar.com/shimano-dhur7053d-dynamo-front-disc-hub-black-centerlock-12-x-100mm-36h-edhur7053dagl/p1373397

    They have a couple wrenches in stock that might be modded:

    https://www.nashbar.com/shimano-tlfc32-bottom-bracket-cup-installation-tool-adaptor-y13009210/p325019

    https://www.nashbar.com/pedros-bottom-bracket-wrench-shimano-8notch-flat-wrench-for-8notch-6460270/p324774

    A different idea is to get a flat washer with maybe a 35mm hole. File
    inside of it to fit and then weld a handle on.

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Mon Jul 25 14:31:36 2022
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 14:12:45 -0400
    Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 16:33:45 -0000 (UTC)
    bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> wrote:

    <snip>
    Yes, but I still need the starting material. If I have to buy
    _something_ I'd prefer it be at least close to the right size
    and shape.


    Seems you are working on a Dynamo Hub?

    https://www.nashbar.com/shimano-dhur7053d-dynamo-front-disc-hub-black-centerlock-12-x-100mm-36h-edhur7053dagl/p1373397

    They have a couple wrenches in stock that might be modded:

    https://www.nashbar.com/shimano-tlfc32-bottom-bracket-cup-installation-tool-adaptor-y13009210/p325019

    https://www.nashbar.com/pedros-bottom-bracket-wrench-shimano-8notch-flat-wrench-for-8notch-6460270/p324774

    A different idea is to get a flat washer with maybe a 35mm hole. File
    inside of it to fit and then weld a handle on.


    How about a big honking internal lock washer and weld a handle on.
    Maybe 1-1/4 inch?:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-washers/lock-washers/internal-tooth-lock-washers-9/

    Might be able to find those locally at store...

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to bob prohaska on Mon Jul 25 12:36:41 2022
    On 7/24/2022 6:42 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
    I'm likely to need a wrench similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-TL-DH10-36mm-Dynamo-Removal/dp/B00H6P8G80 (Just the 36 mm side) in the next week or two.

    They aren't readily available, at least in the USA.

    Can anybody think of a substitute that's close enough to be
    filed and/or peened to get a decent fit? Max thickness has
    to be no more than about 1/8 inch. It's grabbing an aluminum
    part, so material strength isn't likely to be an issue. Full
    circle grip is important, as the nut is thin and surface loads
    high. The hub being worked on is already a little chewed up from
    using a wrench that engages only two flats.

    A thin 1-3/8" could be filed out, a 1-7/16" could be peened
    smaller and filed to fit.

    I started by looking at plumbing fitting wrenches and struck
    out. Anybody got a better idea?

    Thanks for reading,

    bob prohaska


    In a pinch I'd probably machine something out of 4140HT for that. In
    fact I have several collet wrenches in my tool holders box where I did
    exactly that.

    4140HT is more than hard enough for an aluminum fitting, and if I needed
    harder it doesn't have an overly complex heat treating recipe for
    something as simple as a box wrench. It might warp a little, but its
    just a wrench.


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bob prohaska@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Mon Jul 25 21:37:58 2022
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:
    On 7/24/2022 6:42 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
    I'm likely to need a wrench similar to this:
    https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-TL-DH10-36mm-Dynamo-Removal/dp/B00H6P8G80
    (Just the 36 mm side) in the next week or two.

    They aren't readily available, at least in the USA.

    In a pinch I'd probably machine something out of 4140HT for that. In
    fact I have several collet wrenches in my tool holders box where I did exactly that.

    Visiting a local bike shop proved enlightening. It appears that
    a 39 mm 16 notch bottom bracket wrench is 39 mm groove-to-groove.
    That matches the 39 mm point-to-point size of the octagon nut. I'm
    not sure how well the wrench will clear the flats, but that can be
    fixed with a little filework. Much easier than starting from a blank
    piece of metal.

    When told I was looking for a "TL-DH10" wrench the shop clerk found
    it out of stock as I did and eventually said it appeared to be dis-
    continued. If it's functionally the same as a standard bottom bracket
    wrench that would nicely explain why it's gone missing.

    Unfortunately the bike shop didn't have a 39 mm bottom bracket wrench.
    At least I know what I'm looking for now....

    Thanks to all for reading and replying!

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 25 19:07:11 2022
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tbmrc8$143f$1@gioia.aioe.org...

    In a pinch I'd probably machine something out of 4140HT for that. In
    fact I have several collet wrenches in my tool holders box where I did
    exactly that.

    4140HT is more than hard enough for an aluminum fitting, and if I needed
    harder it doesn't have an overly complex heat treating recipe for
    something as simple as a box wrench. It might warp a little, but its
    just a wrench.

    ------------------

    That's great if you have it. If not, discarded saw blades can be annealed
    and cut into flat shapes, then rehardened if necessary. A test piece cut
    from an annealed 6" carbide-tipped saw and rehardened scratched glass.

    I got a stack of dull used blades from a kitchen installer who was cleaning
    out his work van.

    For thicker stock you could try lawnmower blades and car leaf springs. I practiced blacksmithing, hardening and tempering on an old car spring, then bought a piece of new (no hidden cracks) 5160 spring stock from a custom
    shop. I thought smithing could be a good way to shape custom tools too large for my lathe and mill. It might if I had a lot more skill and practice, I've had better luck welding or bolting manageable pieces together. For example a sharp-cornered hex shaped opening can be cut in two halves with an end mill.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 25 19:32:28 2022
    If I had to make one I think I'd lay out and scribe the 8 point pattern on blued mild steel, drill 1/16" at the points, hog out the middle with a hole
    saw and cut as close as I could see to the lines with a fine tooth hacksaw.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ryan Carroll@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 26 12:16:19 2022
    I'm not sure how important it is to make something so purpose built for this. Couldn't you take a rubber strap wrench (like for oil filters) and rip it down the middle to be narrow enough for your hub nut? I've taken off the caps from Shimano's
    internally geared hubs with strap wrenches to good success.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Jul 26 14:37:42 2022
    On 7/25/2022 4:32 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    If I had to make one I think I'd lay out and scribe the 8 point pattern
    on blued mild steel, drill 1/16" at the points, hog out the middle with
    a hole saw and cut as close as I could see to the lines with a fine
    tooth hacksaw.



    THAT sounds like to much work for me. I CNC all the stuff like that
    these days.

    I remember seeing some giant wrench or nut made that way shown in a high
    school mechanical drawing class, and I thought to myself that it looked
    like a work of desperation.

    Ok, I admit I have made wrenches fit an application with a torch,
    grinder, and/or file before. Like I said. It was a work of desperation.


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bob prohaska@21:1/5 to Ryan Carroll on Wed Jul 27 00:39:30 2022
    Ryan Carroll <cyanrarroll@gmail.com> wrote:
    I'm not sure how important it is to make something so purpose built for this. Couldn't you take a rubber strap wrench (like for oil filters) and rip it down the middle to be narrow enough for your hub nut? I've taken off the caps from Shimano's
    internally geared hubs with strap wrenches to good success.

    The short answer is that I don't know yet. This particular hub was
    disassembled a couple of years ago by a mechanic at a local bike shop
    who was bigger, younger and stronger than me, using an open-end (IIRC)
    wrench. He ended up damaging some of the (very short) octagonal flats.

    We were both astonished at how tight it was and that he didn't wreck it.

    After cleaning the inside of the hub (and seemingly fixing the persistent scraping noise it made) I screwed the hub back together with relatively
    modest torque and a trace of grease on the threads to prevent galling.

    If I'm lucky it'll come apart as gently as it went back together.
    However, the male thread is prone to rolling within the female thread. Geometrically it's like a tire that's loose and creeping on its rim.
    The male thread, being smaller, rotates faster than the female thread
    and so gets tighter.

    By the end of the week I should know the answer to your question.

    8-)

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Wed Jul 27 19:39:05 2022
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tbpmr6$1knd$1@gioia.aioe.org...

    On 7/25/2022 4:32 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    If I had to make one I think I'd lay out and scribe the 8 point pattern on blued mild steel, drill 1/16" at the points, hog out the middle with a
    hole saw and cut as close as I could see to the lines with a fine tooth hacksaw.



    THAT sounds like to much work for me. I CNC all the stuff like that
    these days.

    I remember seeing some giant wrench or nut made that way shown in a high
    school mechanical drawing class, and I thought to myself that it looked
    like a work of desperation.

    Ok, I admit I have made wrenches fit an application with a torch,
    grinder, and/or file before. Like I said. It was a work of desperation.

    ------------------

    Yes, it's the sort of project given to students to teach them dexterity and patience. I still do it because I still need those lessons, plus I can cut shapes by hand that I can't measure or cut on machine tools, especially on parts too awkward or delicate to clamp tightly. I'm getting good enough to
    make the light press fits in metal that I learned long ago to do in wood.

    However I learned the hard way NOT to fit a car fender rust patch snugly.
    They need clearance to expand from welding heat.

    If I had CNC I'd certainly use it, but my 1950's and 60's model shop machine tools don't even have DROs. I spend many years designing aerospace circuit boards and their metal enclosures on a CNC workstation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Thu Jul 28 15:20:45 2022
    On 7/27/2022 4:39 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:tbpmr6$1knd$1@gioia.aioe.org...

    On 7/25/2022 4:32 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    If I had to make one I think I'd lay out and scribe the 8 point
    pattern on blued mild steel, drill 1/16" at the points, hog out the
    middle with a hole saw and cut as close as I could see to the lines
    with a fine tooth hacksaw.



    THAT sounds like to much work for me.  I CNC all the stuff like that
    these days.

    I remember seeing some giant wrench or nut made that way shown in a high school mechanical drawing class, and I thought to myself that it looked
    like a work of desperation.

    Ok, I admit I have made wrenches fit an application with a torch,
    grinder, and/or file before.  Like I said.  It was a work of desperation.

    ------------------

    Yes, it's the sort of project given to students to teach them dexterity
    and patience. I still do it because I still need those lessons, plus I
    can cut shapes by hand that I can't measure or cut on machine tools, especially on parts too awkward or delicate to clamp tightly. I'm
    getting good enough to make the light press fits in metal that I learned
    long ago to do in wood.

    However I learned the hard way NOT to fit a car fender rust patch
    snugly. They need clearance to expand from welding heat.

    If I had CNC I'd certainly use it, but my 1950's and 60's model shop
    machine tools don't even have DROs. I spend many years designing
    aerospace circuit boards and their metal enclosures on a CNC workstation.



    I definitely have manual machines in the shop, but I love me some DROs.
    I even bought a DRO for the POS manual mill mold making video series.
    I'll probably stick it on the machine as a supplemental video after
    the 2nd project video in the series. (Probably a spindle upgrade after
    the 1st.) Been debating on whether or a DRO would be useful on the
    little turret lathe. I think not. Once a job is setup on it the stops
    should take care of that for repetitive work. I am prepared to consider
    it though.


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 28 20:55:32 2022
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tbv23t$1fmg$1@gioia.aioe.org...

    I definitely have manual machines in the shop, but I love me some DROs.
    I even bought a DRO for the POS manual mill mold making video series.
    I'll probably stick it on the machine as a supplemental video after
    the 2nd project video in the series. (Probably a spindle upgrade after
    the 1st.) Been debating on whether or a DRO would be useful on the
    little turret lathe. I think not. Once a job is setup on it the stops
    should take care of that for repetitive work. I am prepared to consider
    it though.

    -------------

    After machining a run of parts on a DRO Bridgeport at work I bought
    inexpensive scales for my Clausing and started making mounts and chip
    shields. Part way through I realized that what I make at home often attaches
    to something I don't have a dimensioned drawing for, so I have to cut to
    fit, for which the dials work well enough, corrections are typically a
    pencil line width or less. The last thing I made has a cutout for an old
    analog panel meter with mounting studs in a triangular pattern that I laid
    out with dividers. A pointed wiggler usually gets me within 0.005" of
    scribed lines.

    My electronic enclosures are light aluminum or plastic that deforms a little
    in the vise and doesn't repeatedly zero the same way against the stop, so I
    use a left rear hole or cutout corner as the zero and scribe the layout onto
    a paper label. The analog meters have snap-on bezels that flex at the edges
    and weren't a reliable baseline to measure X - Y mounting dimensions.

    When I forget where I am rulers graduated to 0.1" find the handle turns
    count.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)