• tight fitted top jaws

    From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 13 11:34:39 2022
    The top jaws on the 6" 6-jaw CME (Sanou) chuck I received are VERY tight in
    the main jaws, enough to need a plastic hammer to remove. I've been sanding them down with a square backing bar as the guide but the silicon carbide and aluminum oxide paper I tried cuts extremely slowly. A 1/4" carbide bit in
    the mill wouldn't touch the hardened steel and a larger one doesn't fit the groove. My belt sander is too crude for such a precision task and a lathe
    bit blank used as a scraper will remove a tiny chip from the corner at the bottom but not from the face, although it drags as if it's trying to cut.

    I'm trying to fit them to require moderate hand pressure to install or
    remove, like the ones on my Bison 3-jaw. AFAICT the interference is just a
    few ten thousandths though only 0.001" calipers fit into the area. I could
    have bought a disk micrometer at the ham radio flea market but I didn't have
    a use for it then.

    Does anyone have a way to do this? There isn't enough clearance to surface grind them.
    This is the style, and the crosswise tongue underneath is the problem. The lengthwise tongue fits well. https://www.amazon.com/BISON-Hard-Jaws-Chuck-Size/dp/B000655FMM

    tia, jsw

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Nov 13 10:38:26 2022
    On 11/13/2022 9:34 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    The top jaws on the 6" 6-jaw CME (Sanou) chuck I received are VERY tight
    in the main jaws, enough to need a plastic hammer to remove. I've been sanding them down with a square backing bar as the guide but the silicon carbide and aluminum oxide paper I tried cuts extremely slowly. A 1/4" carbide bit in the mill wouldn't touch the hardened steel and a larger
    one doesn't fit the groove. My belt sander is too crude for such a
    precision task and a lathe bit blank used as a scraper will remove a
    tiny chip from the corner at the bottom but not from the face, although
    it drags as if it's trying to cut.

    I'm trying to fit them to require moderate hand pressure to install or remove, like the ones on my Bison 3-jaw. AFAICT the interference is just
    a few ten thousandths though only 0.001" calipers fit into the area. I
    could have bought a disk micrometer at the ham radio flea market but I
    didn't have a use for it then.

    Does anyone have a way to do this? There isn't enough clearance to
    surface grind them.
    This is the style, and the crosswise tongue underneath is the problem.
    The lengthwise tongue fits well. https://www.amazon.com/BISON-Hard-Jaws-Chuck-Size/dp/B000655FMM

    tia, jsw


    You can get other wheels or dress down to fit. Also, if you have one
    that was dressed at an angle for grinding a special application the flat
    face might reach deep enough.

    Carbide won't cut it? Must be pretty doggone hard.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Sun Nov 13 11:10:56 2022
    On 11/13/2022 10:53 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 11:34:39 -0500
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    Does anyone have a way to do this? There isn't enough clearance to surface >> grind them.
    This is the style, and the crosswise tongue underneath is the problem. The >> lengthwise tongue fits well.
    https://www.amazon.com/BISON-Hard-Jaws-Chuck-Size/dp/B000655FMM

    Just something you might not have considered... Valve grinding/lapping compound.



    ^
    |

    It will work. You absolutely MUST get it thoroughly cleaned out when
    you are done, but I expect you know that.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Nov 13 13:53:30 2022
    On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 11:34:39 -0500
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    Does anyone have a way to do this? There isn't enough clearance to surface >grind them.
    This is the style, and the crosswise tongue underneath is the problem. The >lengthwise tongue fits well. >https://www.amazon.com/BISON-Hard-Jaws-Chuck-Size/dp/B000655FMM

    Just something you might not have considered... Valve grinding/lapping compound.

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Sun Nov 13 16:41:15 2022
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tkrbvh$1gk1d$1@dont-email.me...

    On 11/13/2022 10:53 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
    On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 11:34:39 -0500
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    Does anyone have a way to do this? There isn't enough clearance to
    surface
    grind them.
    This is the style, and the crosswise tongue underneath is the problem.
    The
    lengthwise tongue fits well.
    https://www.amazon.com/BISON-Hard-Jaws-Chuck-Size/dp/B000655FMM

    Just something you might not have considered... Valve grinding/lapping compound.


    It will work. You absolutely MUST get it thoroughly cleaned out when
    you are done, but I expect you know that.

    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

    -----------------

    Thanks. The manufacturer didn't know or care about debris between the top
    and main jaws.

    The parts move very little relative to each other, and I think the compound would just scrape off as I hammer or screw the top jaw down. After posting I reconsidered how I was doing it, and clamped the lathe bit in a drill chuck
    as a handle which let me apply considerably more pressure, enough to raise
    tiny chips. That let the first set go together with less hammering together
    and prying apart so I tried sooting the surfaces to show actual contact and then scraping those spots, until my hands cramped. These small, recessed surfaces were clearly not ground as well as the exteriors of the jaws.

    Hey, I have an EZE-LAP that fits those narrow recesses...

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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to muratlanne@gmail.com on Mon Nov 14 10:43:09 2022
    On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 11:34:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
    <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    The top jaws on the 6" 6-jaw CME (Sanou) chuck I received are VERY tight in >the main jaws, enough to need a plastic hammer to remove. I've been sanding >them down with a square backing bar as the guide but the silicon carbide and >aluminum oxide paper I tried cuts extremely slowly. A 1/4" carbide bit in
    the mill wouldn't touch the hardened steel and a larger one doesn't fit the >groove. My belt sander is too crude for such a precision task and a lathe
    bit blank used as a scraper will remove a tiny chip from the corner at the >bottom but not from the face, although it drags as if it's trying to cut.

    I'm trying to fit them to require moderate hand pressure to install or >remove, like the ones on my Bison 3-jaw. AFAICT the interference is just a >few ten thousandths though only 0.001" calipers fit into the area. I could >have bought a disk micrometer at the ham radio flea market but I didn't have >a use for it then.

    Does anyone have a way to do this? There isn't enough clearance to surface >grind them.
    This is the style, and the crosswise tongue underneath is the problem. The >lengthwise tongue fits well. ><https://www.amazon.com/BISON-Hard-Jaws-Chuck-Size/dp/B000655FMM>

    This is best done manually, by a form of scraping.

    Obtain a small tube of Hi-Spot Blue paste:

    .<https://www.mcmaster.com/high-spot-paste/>

    And some very fine (800 or 2000 grit) wet/dry sandpaper, and a small
    machined aluminum rectangular block around which to wrap a piece of
    that sandpaper.

    Very thinly coat the chuck side of the mating interface with Hi-Spot
    Blue. Install and remove the jaw. Under a bright light, inspect the
    mating surfaces of the removable jaw. The high spots will have some
    blue, perhaps in a bulls eye pattern (the center being where metal
    squeezed the paste completely out). Use the sandpaper to very
    slightly reduce the high spot. Don't be impatient, or overshooting is
    certain. Repeat until the plastic hammer is no longer needed. Clean
    very well, oil, and install. Do for all jaws.

    The above assumes that the chuck is correct and the jaws need
    adjustment. If the jaws are perfect and the chuck needs scraping,
    smear the jaws with blue and reduce high spots on the chuck side. Be
    even more slow and careful, and practice on a beater, because an
    overshoot will destroy the chuck for anything precise. Scraping a
    beater into precision would be a good exercise.

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to muratlanne@gmail.com on Mon Nov 14 13:57:09 2022
    "Joe Gwinn" wrote in message news:4fn4nhlph7c326skd7anocgau43cq0m5a3@4ax.com...

    On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 11:34:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
    <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    The top jaws on the 6" 6-jaw CME (Sanou) chuck I received are VERY tight in >the main jaws, enough to need a plastic hammer to remove. I've been sanding >them down with a square backing bar as the guide but the silicon carbide
    and
    aluminum oxide paper I tried cuts extremely slowly. ...

    This is best done manually, by a form of scraping.

    Obtain a small tube of Hi-Spot Blue paste:

    .<https://www.mcmaster.com/high-spot-paste/>

    And some very fine (800 or 2000 grit) wet/dry sandpaper, and a small
    machined aluminum rectangular block around which to wrap a piece of
    that sandpaper.

    Very thinly coat the chuck side of the mating interface with Hi-Spot
    Blue. Install and remove the jaw. Under a bright light, inspect the
    mating surfaces of the removable jaw. The high spots will have some
    blue, perhaps in a bulls eye pattern (the center being where metal
    squeezed the paste completely out). Use the sandpaper to very
    slightly reduce the high spot. Don't be impatient, or overshooting is
    certain. Repeat until the plastic hammer is no longer needed. Clean
    very well, oil, and install. Do for all jaws.

    The above assumes that the chuck is correct and the jaws need
    adjustment. If the jaws are perfect and the chuck needs scraping,
    smear the jaws with blue and reduce high spots on the chuck side. Be
    even more slow and careful, and practice on a beater, because an
    overshoot will destroy the chuck for anything precise. Scraping a
    beater into precision would be a good exercise.

    Joe Gwinn

    ------------------------

    That is pretty much what I have been doing. Fine SiC paper had no noticeable effect, so I stepped down to 180, then Al2O3 paper which seems better, and
    for the next pass I dug out my diamond hones. That steel is Hard, I can
    barely scratch or scrape it with a lathe bit. Instead of bluing I smoked the surfaces over a candle which is faster and less messy, no applicator needed. The contacting surfaces show up very clearly as shiny against the grey or
    black background.

    I didn't expect much from a 6" 6-jaw for $231. The reviews suggested it
    might become a project but should be worth the trouble / practice when done. Better too tight than too loose. My 4" 6-jaw has proven very useful on
    plastic and tubing but its capacity is too limited. Any work that requires roundness and concentricity is done on a live pipe center at the tailstock
    end.

    Another question. I think a backplate's location on a threaded spindle is a compromise between centering on the angled thread flanks and how squarely
    the back end seats on the spindle flange. In order to square the back end to the threads and spindle axis as much as possible I'm considering placing a compressible material like thin cardboard or an O ring between the spindle flange and the backplate while I take a truing cut on the opposite end, then reversing it. Hopefully this would give the seating face less and the
    threads more centering authority if the contact isn't square. If the cutting drag screws the backplate on tighter I should notice the change when backing the bit out again. Has anyone tried this, or have a better method?

    https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/thread-clearance-on-sb-heavy-10-spindle.64202/

    Threaded spindles may be considered obsolete, but the trade school lathe I learned on had a D1 mount that was badly burred by chips that hadn't been cleaned out of the chuck before installing it.

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