• Weld Evaluation

    From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 6 10:24:27 2023
    I saw this shared on somebody's timeline on Facebook. There were over
    600 comments which means its pretty well hated (love is not so
    motivational for so many).

    https://www.facebook.com/100044717711491/posts/760297725470811/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

    I went back to the original poster to make sure it was a real post they
    were sharing. It showed over 1000 comments of similar amazement,
    disgust, and repulsion. The original post was also shared over 3000
    times. You should be able to view the original post and the pictures
    without logging on to Facebook.

    Never mind the business atrocious business practices made in the
    poster's claims. Just look at the metal.

    1. It is obvious that they used whatever scrap they had lay around. I
    do mean scrap, although I save scrap myself.

    2. Many of the commenters claimed they compromised the frame of the
    truck. Due to the lack of penetration and adhesion that may not be the
    case, although if the welds were "good" it certainly could have.

    3. One of the things that caught my attention were all the ragged
    unfinished torch cuts of the scrap itself. I'm no expert with a torch,
    but I can do better than that. Nevermind that they didn't even knock
    off the easy slag with a hammer much less clean it up with a grinder.

    4. Of course the rails riding on top of what is function a sponge
    (plastic bed liner) is a huge issue. Even if everything else was good
    the rail bolts would snap off modestly quickly from the flex this allows.

    5. Then there were no longer any things I could distract myself with.
    I was forced to look at the welds directly. Trying very hard not to
    vomit I studied the dried "vomit" holding the "brackets" in place. Many
    people in the comments claimed that the wrong rod was used, and it was
    welded to cold. Those things may be true, but I have executed better
    looking welds with the wrong rod and a welder that couldn't get any
    hotter. I have welded stuff that was to thick for the current of the
    welder I was using. To me this looks a lot like a flux shielded weld
    attempted with DCEP instead of DCEN. The shitty welds and the amount of spatter still stuck to the parts even after what looks like a cursory
    cleanup says flux core. The lack of anything resembling welds says
    wrong polarity flux wire, but...

    5.b. I think an equally bad weld could have been achieved with correct polarity because it doesn't appear they even ground off the undercoating
    before welding. Most modern trucks have a protective undercoating on
    the frame that is as tough as a plastic powder coating paint which is
    what it probably it is. I have used a welding rod (no clue what it was) repairing t-posts for my grandfathers vineyard as a youth that seemed to
    burn through, rust, paint and dirt. I think his was badly mig welded.

    Look at the bill if you like. They charged a good shape rate to do the
    job. I recently installed a set of brackets and hitch rails for a
    removable hitch in my work truck (2 years ago maybe less). I have both
    a gooseneck plate and a fifth wheel hitch to go in my rails, and I have
    pulled both with it since. Anyway, I bought a proper set of rails and
    brackets along with an electronic hitch controller on-line retail from a trailers parts vendor. I bought my gooseneck plate from a local farm
    supply, and I bought the 5th wheel used hitch on Facebook Market place.
    I think the cost of materials with a universal bracket kit was under a
    grand. It might have been slightly over if I had used the exact fit
    bracket kit. Figure retail for a basic hitch like that they might have
    been into it to do it right with proper materials AT RETAIL for
    1500-1800 dollars. Since they are a "professional" hitch shop they are
    likely buying wholesale or at least at jobber prices. Even if they paid
    retail that still leaves over 3 grand for labor, shop supplies and a
    shop profit if they had used all new exact fit parts from a known name
    brand manufacturer.

    When I installed mine I through bolted everything and welded nothing
    with the supplied hardware. I did not have to buy a single additional
    bolt, washer, nut or press fit knurl nut. Correction. I used my own
    stainless steel hardware when I cut the hole in the bed for the
    electrical connector in front of the wheel well. I had my son do a fair
    bit of the work. He's smart, but he's not a mechanical person like
    myself. He read the instructions and followed what it said. I came out
    to old or press on the heads of bolts a few times when he needed a hand.
    It took less than a day for somebody who had never installed a hitch
    before in his life.

    To be fair I often am able to do jobs in far less than the book hours
    for a job.

    If the shop rate is $100 an hour and the "mechanic" is slow it might
    cost $1000 of shop labor to install a hitch like this PROPERLY.

    It seems like an awfully involved post, documentation, and potential for
    legal liability to just be a hit piece. Still I feel obligated to say,
    "if this is real" I am appalled. This is news station expose worthy destruction of property.



    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Thu Apr 6 10:26:36 2023
    On 4/6/2023 10:24 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    I saw this shared on somebody's timeline on Facebook.  There were over
    600 comments which means its pretty well hated (love is not so
    motivational for so many).

    https://www.facebook.com/100044717711491/posts/760297725470811/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

    I went back to the original poster to make sure it was a real post they
    were sharing.  It showed over 1000 comments of similar amazement,
    disgust, and repulsion.  The original post was also shared over 3000 times.  You should be able to view the original post and the pictures without logging on to Facebook.

    Never mind the business atrocious business practices made in the
    poster's claims.  Just look at the metal.

    1.  It is obvious that they used whatever scrap they had lay around.  I
    do mean scrap, although I save scrap myself.

    2.  Many of the commenters claimed they compromised the frame of the truck.  Due to the lack of penetration and adhesion that may not be the case, although if the welds were "good" it certainly could have.

    3.  One of the things that caught my attention were all the ragged unfinished torch cuts of the scrap itself.  I'm no expert with a torch,
    but I can do better than that.  Nevermind that they didn't even knock
    off the easy slag with a hammer much less clean it up with a grinder.

    4.  Of course the rails riding on top of what is function a sponge
    (plastic bed liner) is a huge issue.  Even if everything else was good
    the rail bolts would snap off modestly quickly from the flex this allows.

    5.  Then there were no longer any things I could distract myself with. I
    was forced to look at the welds directly.  Trying very hard not to vomit
    I studied the dried "vomit" holding the "brackets" in place.  Many
    people in the comments claimed that the wrong rod was used, and it was
    welded to cold.  Those things may be true, but I have executed better looking welds with the wrong rod and a welder that couldn't get any
    hotter.  I have welded stuff that was to thick for the current of the
    welder I was using.  To me this looks a lot like a flux shielded weld attempted with DCEP instead of DCEN.  The shitty welds and the amount of spatter still stuck to the parts even after what looks like a cursory
    cleanup says flux core.  The lack of anything resembling welds says
    wrong polarity flux wire, but...

    5.b.  I think an equally bad weld could have been achieved with correct polarity because it doesn't appear they even ground off the undercoating before welding.  Most modern trucks have a protective undercoating on
    the frame that is as tough as a plastic powder coating paint which is
    what it probably it is.  I have used a welding rod (no clue what it was) repairing t-posts for my grandfathers vineyard as a youth that seemed to
    burn through, rust, paint and dirt.  I think his was badly mig welded.

    Look at the bill if you like.  They charged a good shape rate to do the job.  I recently installed a set of brackets and hitch rails for a
    removable hitch in my work truck (2 years ago maybe less).  I have both
    a gooseneck plate and a fifth wheel hitch to go in my rails, and I have pulled both with it since.  Anyway, I bought a proper set of rails and brackets along with an electronic hitch controller on-line retail from a trailers parts vendor.  I bought my gooseneck plate from a local farm supply, and I bought the 5th wheel used hitch on Facebook Market place.
    I think the cost of materials with a universal bracket kit was under a grand.  It might have been slightly over if I had used the exact fit
    bracket kit.  Figure retail for a basic hitch like that they might have
    been into it to do it right with proper materials AT RETAIL for
    1500-1800 dollars.  Since they are a "professional" hitch shop they are likely buying wholesale or at least at jobber prices.  Even if they paid retail that still leaves over 3 grand for labor, shop supplies and a
    shop profit if they had used all new exact fit parts from a known name
    brand manufacturer.

    When I installed mine I through bolted everything and welded nothing
    with the supplied hardware.  I did not have to buy a single additional
    bolt, washer, nut or press fit knurl nut.  Correction.  I used my own stainless steel hardware when I cut the hole in the bed for the
    electrical connector in front of the wheel well.  I had my son do a fair
    bit of the work.  He's smart, but he's not a mechanical person like myself.  He read the instructions and followed what it said.  I came out
    to old or press on the heads of bolts a few times when he needed a hand.
     It took less than a day for somebody who had never installed a hitch before in his life.

    To be fair I often am able to do jobs in far less than the book hours
    for a job.

    If the shop rate is $100 an hour and the "mechanic" is slow it might
    cost $1000 of shop labor to install a hitch like this PROPERLY.

    It seems like an awfully involved post, documentation, and potential for legal liability to just be a hit piece.  Still I feel obligated to say,
    "if this is real" I am appalled.  This is news station expose worthy destruction of property.





    Wow! 500 additional comments and 500 additional shares to the original
    post since I started writing this post.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 6 14:41:20 2023
    On Thu, 6 Apr 2023 10:24:27 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
    wrote:

    I saw this shared on somebody's timeline on Facebook. There were over
    600 comments which means its pretty well hated (love is not so
    motivational for so many).

    < https://www.facebook.com/100044717711491/posts/760297725470811/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v >

    I went back to the original poster to make sure it was a real post they
    were sharing. It showed over 1000 comments of similar amazement,
    disgust, and repulsion. The original post was also shared over 3000
    times. You should be able to view the original post and the pictures
    without logging on to Facebook.

    I certainly saw enough.

    If those pictures and story are anything like correct, a lawsuit is in
    order, and may be the only way forward. I'd bet it would end up being
    settled out of court.

    Joe Gwinn



    Never mind the business atrocious business practices made in the
    poster's claims. Just look at the metal.

    1. It is obvious that they used whatever scrap they had lay around. I
    do mean scrap, although I save scrap myself.

    2. Many of the commenters claimed they compromised the frame of the
    truck. Due to the lack of penetration and adhesion that may not be the
    case, although if the welds were "good" it certainly could have.

    3. One of the things that caught my attention were all the ragged
    unfinished torch cuts of the scrap itself. I'm no expert with a torch,
    but I can do better than that. Nevermind that they didn't even knock
    off the easy slag with a hammer much less clean it up with a grinder.

    4. Of course the rails riding on top of what is function a sponge
    (plastic bed liner) is a huge issue. Even if everything else was good
    the rail bolts would snap off modestly quickly from the flex this allows.

    5. Then there were no longer any things I could distract myself with.
    I was forced to look at the welds directly. Trying very hard not to
    vomit I studied the dried "vomit" holding the "brackets" in place. Many >people in the comments claimed that the wrong rod was used, and it was
    welded to cold. Those things may be true, but I have executed better
    looking welds with the wrong rod and a welder that couldn't get any
    hotter. I have welded stuff that was to thick for the current of the
    welder I was using. To me this looks a lot like a flux shielded weld >attempted with DCEP instead of DCEN. The shitty welds and the amount of >spatter still stuck to the parts even after what looks like a cursory
    cleanup says flux core. The lack of anything resembling welds says
    wrong polarity flux wire, but...

    5.b. I think an equally bad weld could have been achieved with correct >polarity because it doesn't appear they even ground off the undercoating >before welding. Most modern trucks have a protective undercoating on
    the frame that is as tough as a plastic powder coating paint which is
    what it probably it is. I have used a welding rod (no clue what it was) >repairing t-posts for my grandfathers vineyard as a youth that seemed to
    burn through, rust, paint and dirt. I think his was badly mig welded.

    Look at the bill if you like. They charged a good shape rate to do the
    job. I recently installed a set of brackets and hitch rails for a
    removable hitch in my work truck (2 years ago maybe less). I have both
    a gooseneck plate and a fifth wheel hitch to go in my rails, and I have >pulled both with it since. Anyway, I bought a proper set of rails and >brackets along with an electronic hitch controller on-line retail from a >trailers parts vendor. I bought my gooseneck plate from a local farm
    supply, and I bought the 5th wheel used hitch on Facebook Market place.
    I think the cost of materials with a universal bracket kit was under a
    grand. It might have been slightly over if I had used the exact fit
    bracket kit. Figure retail for a basic hitch like that they might have
    been into it to do it right with proper materials AT RETAIL for
    1500-1800 dollars. Since they are a "professional" hitch shop they are >likely buying wholesale or at least at jobber prices. Even if they paid >retail that still leaves over 3 grand for labor, shop supplies and a
    shop profit if they had used all new exact fit parts from a known name
    brand manufacturer.

    When I installed mine I through bolted everything and welded nothing
    with the supplied hardware. I did not have to buy a single additional
    bolt, washer, nut or press fit knurl nut. Correction. I used my own >stainless steel hardware when I cut the hole in the bed for the
    electrical connector in front of the wheel well. I had my son do a fair
    bit of the work. He's smart, but he's not a mechanical person like
    myself. He read the instructions and followed what it said. I came out
    to old or press on the heads of bolts a few times when he needed a hand.
    It took less than a day for somebody who had never installed a hitch
    before in his life.

    To be fair I often am able to do jobs in far less than the book hours
    for a job.

    If the shop rate is $100 an hour and the "mechanic" is slow it might
    cost $1000 of shop labor to install a hitch like this PROPERLY.

    It seems like an awfully involved post, documentation, and potential for >legal liability to just be a hit piece. Still I feel obligated to say,
    "if this is real" I am appalled. This is news station expose worthy >destruction of property.



    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Thu Apr 6 15:44:17 2023
    On Thu, 6 Apr 2023 10:26:36 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    Wow! 500 additional comments and 500 additional shares to the original
    post since I started writing this post.

    Welding anything to the vehicle frame has been frowned on for quite
    some time now. The front Reese style hitch I had bolted to the front of
    my old truck had been torched off a sedan in the 1970's. The guy who
    sold it to me said the hitch place didn't weld them on like that
    anymore...

    I've seen welds like that from long arcing stick, like 6013 rods too.
    That is REALLY bad😬 especially for someone "selling" their work as a business...

    For myself I'd remove all the added "brackets" and inspect what was
    left. Removing the box would be very helpful but not necessary. Likely
    use a MIG with a flavor of Dual-Shield to make the frame right again.
    Then bolt the hitch in like it should have been done <shrug>

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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