• I do not recommend this product - IR 5HP TS4N5 Compressor

    From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 30 12:11:27 2023
    Just barely over a year ago I bought a 5HP Ingersol Rand compressor for
    my shop to replace the 3.7HP Lowes Kobalt compressor that had supplied
    the shop's air for just over 4 years previously.

    I walked in the shop this morning with a plan to knock out a few jobs
    and catch up a little bit. I'm modifying some work pallets to mount in
    vises on the table rather than have to remove the vises to mount them to
    the table. I got lucky and figured out a way to block them up in the
    vises on the manual mill in the back, and then proceeded to blow the
    chips off the vise surfaces.

    NO AIR. I had not turned the compressor off last night as I normally
    do, so I was rather surprised.

    Breaker is not tripped. Pressure switch is working. Good voltage
    inside the motor cover. Thermal is not tripped. Caps not blown, and
    they do their slow charge thing when I slap a continuity tester on them.
    I don't know where my cap tester meter is, but I'm fairly confident
    the caps are okay. The motor is just dead.

    Original IR warranty is only 1 year, but I bought a 2 year extended
    warranty. Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be one of those warranties
    that are the reason I don't usually buy extended warranties.

    In the mean time I guess I'll have to go grab my 29 year old Campbell
    Hausfeld roll around out of the garage to run the shop air. I don't
    think it will carry the whole shop, but I can probably use one or two
    machines at a time with it.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Sun Apr 30 16:09:09 2023
    On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 15:55:37 -0400
    Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

    Actually several things it might still be per this manual page:

    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/502865/Ingersoll-Rand-Ts4l5.html?page=12#manual

    In case your warrant doesn't take care of it...

    A better copy, maybe newer manual here:

    https://www-chainsawjournal-com.webpkgcache.com/doc/-/s/www.chainsawjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/manual-Ingersoll-Rand-TS4N5-.pdf

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Sun Apr 30 15:47:09 2023
    On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 12:11:27 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    Breaker is not tripped. Pressure switch is working. Good voltage
    inside the motor cover. Thermal is not tripped. Caps not blown, and
    they do their slow charge thing when I slap a continuity tester on them.
    I don't know where my cap tester meter is, but I'm fairly confident
    the caps are okay. The motor is just dead.

    Maybe motor starter switch. When it fell back to the starter winding
    the contact didn't make. Had that happen on my 2hp 120vac once. Took it apart... think a sharp rap or two on the end would have gotten it going
    again though...

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Sun Apr 30 15:55:37 2023
    On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 15:47:09 -0400
    Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 12:11:27 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    Breaker is not tripped. Pressure switch is working. Good voltage
    inside the motor cover. Thermal is not tripped. Caps not blown, and
    they do their slow charge thing when I slap a continuity tester on them.
    I don't know where my cap tester meter is, but I'm fairly confident
    the caps are okay. The motor is just dead.

    Maybe motor starter switch. When it fell back to the starter winding
    the contact didn't make. Had that happen on my 2hp 120vac once. Took it >apart... think a sharp rap or two on the end would have gotten it going
    again though...

    Actually several things it might still be per this manual page:

    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/502865/Ingersoll-Rand-Ts4l5.html?page=12#manual

    In case your warrant doesn't take care of it...

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Sun Apr 30 14:49:42 2023
    On 4/30/2023 12:11 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:


    In the mean time I guess I'll have to go grab my 29 year old Campbell Hausfeld roll around out of the garage to run the shop air.  I don't
    think it will carry the whole shop, but I can probably use one or two machines at a time with it.


    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

    Got it about 2/3 of the over to the shop, and a wheel fell off.

    I guess 29 years in the Arizona heat is a bit much for those plastic
    wheels.



    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Sun Apr 30 14:56:37 2023
    On 4/30/2023 1:09 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
    On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 15:55:37 -0400
    Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

    Actually several things it might still be per this manual page:

    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/502865/Ingersoll-Rand-Ts4l5.html?page=12#manual

    In case your warrant doesn't take care of it...

    A better copy, maybe newer manual here:

    https://www-chainsawjournal-com.webpkgcache.com/doc/-/s/www.chainsawjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/manual-Ingersoll-Rand-TS4N5-.pdf


    I downloaded it, but right now I'm looking for a new wheel to put on the
    CH roll around.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Sun Apr 30 19:27:20 2023
    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2mgju$3l1m3$1@dont-email.me...

    On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 12:11:27 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    Breaker is not tripped. Pressure switch is working. Good voltage
    inside the motor cover. Thermal is not tripped. Caps not blown, and
    they do their slow charge thing when I slap a continuity tester on them.
    I don't know where my cap tester meter is, but I'm fairly confident
    the caps are okay. The motor is just dead.

    Maybe motor starter switch. When it fell back to the starter winding
    the contact didn't make. Had that happen on my 2hp 120vac once. Took it apart... think a sharp rap or two on the end would have gotten it going
    again though...
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    ----------------------

    The start assembly on my 50 year old Maytag washer sometimes hangs open, but the stalled run winding current is around 40A and would trip a breaker if I didn't kick the motor to shake it free. I split the power cord for an
    Amprobe that shows the problem immediately.

    One quick fix that works often enough to be worth trying is to POWER DOWN,
    turn the pulley a little by hand and power up. My father had an unguarded belt-driven bench grinder that always need to be hot-started by hand. For
    that reason alone it had a buffing wheel on one side.

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 1 09:12:54 2023
    On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 19:27:20 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    The start assembly on my 50 year old Maytag washer sometimes hangs open, but >the stalled run winding current is around 40A and would trip a breaker if I >didn't kick the motor to shake it free. I split the power cord for an
    Amprobe that shows the problem immediately.

    It could easy be I don't remember this right or two different episodes happened. I had a similar problem as you describe too. I do remember
    checking a lot of stuff like Bob has done. One final thing I did was
    while the motor was opened up I pulled a circuit board loose to peek at
    the opposite side. It worked okay after that. A contact had been
    exposed on the back side and I burnished that to be sure it was okay as
    long as I had it opened up.

    This was maybe 10 years ago, memory isn't what it used to be ;-)

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Mon May 1 09:28:53 2023
    On 5/1/2023 6:12 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
    On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 19:27:20 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    The start assembly on my 50 year old Maytag washer sometimes hangs open, but >> the stalled run winding current is around 40A and would trip a breaker if I >> didn't kick the motor to shake it free. I split the power cord for an
    Amprobe that shows the problem immediately.

    It could easy be I don't remember this right or two different episodes happened. I had a similar problem as you describe too. I do remember
    checking a lot of stuff like Bob has done. One final thing I did was
    while the motor was opened up I pulled a circuit board loose to peek at
    the opposite side. It worked okay after that. A contact had been
    exposed on the back side and I burnished that to be sure it was okay as
    long as I had it opened up.

    This was maybe 10 years ago, memory isn't what it used to be ;-)

    I considered a spin start, but this compressor cycles on and off half a
    dozen times in a shift in the shop. I'd have to wire up a pressure
    alarm (which isn't a bad idea anyway), and wander back to restart it periodically.

    I have not tried a spin start, but there is zero reaction to
    electrifying the motor. No click. No hum. Nothing. Its possible
    there is a simple failure, but an internal motor failure seems most
    likely. Ultimately a better quality motor will probably be a better
    solution.

    In my searches I've found a crazy number of warranty and just out of
    warranty failures reported by other customers. One guy claimed he took
    one apart and found they had aluminum windings. Another claimed all
    these mid size IR compressors are consumer grade junk made in India. I
    have to say that's an insult to consumer grade junk. My Lowes Kobalt compressor lasted longer than this IR, and the first failure was really
    my fault.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 1 13:07:34 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2opc5$8qnv$1@dont-email.me...

    Ohm check?

    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1348810/Ingersoll-Rand-2475.html?page=19

    If you are unfamiliar with Ladder Logic symbols, M in a circle is the
    contacter (>10A relay) coil and the capacitor-like symbols are its Normally Open (not energized) contacts. OL is a Normally Closed contact. The letters/numbers beside wires are the labels at their ends.

    It's called Ladder Logic because in the control section AC hot and neutral
    are vertical lines and each set of contacts feeding a relay coil is a rung.

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 1 13:22:28 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2opc5$8qnv$1@dont-email.me... ------------
    Internet wisdom:

    https://www.titusco.com/common-problems-with-air-compressors/#001

    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the compressor will often
    fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the pressure switch and adjust
    the level accordingly."

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 1 10:52:25 2023
    On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord or
    a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to start
    when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
    compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
    pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

    When the connection cover of the motor is open and leads of a meter are connected across the incoming line power leads (L1/L2 NOT L1/N) causes
    the meter to display the correct and same line voltage as reading across
    the bus bars in the breaker panel one should assume that neither a
    failure of the pressure switch or a disconnected power cord is likely to
    be the issue.

    If there is a centripetal (or centrifugal if you believe centripetal is
    not a real word) switch that is failing it may be start-able by spin
    starting or by beating on the switch, cleaning its contacts, etc, but
    when there is zero observable reaction (heat/smell/sound) its clear that whatever the issue it is "within" the motor. A spin start or beating on
    the switch may cause it to operate for a single cycle, but it does not
    resolve the issue in a real manner.

    At this point there is a 2 year extended warranty which should be in
    effect, and therefor the issue should be resolved by the warrantor.
    (Maybe not a real word). At this point opening the motor further may
    cause the warranty company to deny a claim. ie: Breaking the paint on
    the motor case screws. Cap covers and power connection panel did not
    require breaking any paint to open.

    I will probably purchase a new better quality motor regardless of the resolution offered by the warrantor. I may or may not dig into the
    existing motor to determine if it has "aluminum" windings, bad start
    switch, or other cause.

    Ultimately though it boils down to this. IR seems to have whored out
    their name and sold out their customers with what used to be a quality
    mid range compressor. Multiple reported instances of motor failures
    upto and including flames shooting out of them allegedly. Many failures withing warranty, claims made that the "newer" motors (mine is newer
    than the report) are better and then subsequent failures seems to back
    this up.

    Honestly if the price of a new Lowes Kobalt was the same as it was
    fiveish years ago when I bought my last one I'd replace this Ingersol
    Rand with another Kobalt. It hasn't quite doubled in five years, but
    its close. The 3.7 HP 60 gallon was 499 when I bought mine, but its
    jumped to 899 today. Sadly I made the mistake of repurposing the tank
    instead of putting a new motor on it and keeping it as a spare. My
    mistake. I made the egregious error of thinking a fine old name like
    Ingersol Rand would last atleast as long as a low bid contract box store compressor.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Mon May 1 11:37:03 2023
    On 5/1/2023 10:52 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
    or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
    start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is
    not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
    compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
    pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

    When the connection cover of the motor is open and leads of a meter are connected across the incoming line power leads (L1/L2 NOT L1/N) causes
    the meter to display the correct and same line voltage as reading across
    the bus bars in the breaker panel one should assume that neither a
    failure of the pressure switch or a disconnected power cord is likely to
    be the issue.

    If there is a centripetal (or centrifugal if you believe centripetal is
    not a real word) switch that is failing it may be start-able by spin
    starting or by beating on the switch, cleaning its contacts, etc, but
    when there is zero observable reaction (heat/smell/sound) its clear that whatever the issue it is "within" the motor.  A spin start or beating on
    the switch may cause it to operate for a single cycle, but it does not resolve the issue in a real manner.

    At this point there is a 2 year extended warranty which should be in
    effect, and therefor the issue should be resolved by the warrantor.
    (Maybe not a real word).  At this point opening the motor further may
    cause the warranty company to deny a claim.  ie: Breaking the paint on
    the motor case screws.  Cap covers and power connection panel did not require breaking any paint to open.

    I will probably purchase a new better quality motor regardless of the resolution offered by the warrantor.  I may or may not dig into the
    existing motor to determine if it has "aluminum" windings, bad start
    switch, or other cause.

    Ultimately though it boils down to this.  IR seems to have whored out
    their name and sold out their customers with what used to be a quality
    mid range compressor.  Multiple reported instances of motor failures
    upto and including flames shooting out of them allegedly.  Many failures withing warranty, claims made that the "newer" motors (mine is newer
    than the report) are better and then subsequent failures seems to back
    this up.

    Honestly if the price of a new Lowes Kobalt was the same as it was
    fiveish years ago when I bought my last one I'd replace this Ingersol
    Rand with another Kobalt.  It hasn't quite doubled in five years, but
    its close.  The 3.7 HP 60 gallon was 499 when I bought mine, but its
    jumped to 899 today.  Sadly I made the mistake of repurposing the tank instead of putting a new motor on it and keeping it as a spare.  My mistake.  I made the egregious error of thinking a fine old name like Ingersol Rand would last atleast as long as a low bid contract box store compressor.



    P.S. Some 30ish years (92/93) ago I was the person who implemented (at
    the initial request of a service manager at Sanborn) a warranty repair
    program for several brands of air compressors at the tool store where I
    was employed. I actually got started by convincing the guy at Sanborn to warranty an out of warranty compressor due to known low usage hours.
    They asked me if I would repair it saving everybody shipping costs, and
    they would pay book hours for all repairs. Like my later career in
    contracting I consistently did good repairs in less time then estimated.

    Generally I found Rollaire to be the best manufactured compressor of the
    half dozen brands I serviced officially, and the few I serviced and
    repaired as not an official service center. Light industrial shops who purchased Rollaire from us had the lowest number of warranty or out of
    warranty repairs. We had them installed in places like tire stores, fabrication shops, and machine shops. Lower usage home shops had zero
    that I recall. That being said they were priced similarly to other top
    names in the compressor industry.

    Yesterday I received a text message (he had seen this line of posts on Faecbook) from a buddy of mine who is a partner in a medium size farming operation (quite huge by midwest standards). He said, "We have had
    great luck with Rollaire compressors. The only issue we have had was
    with Honda motor on one of our portable truck mounted compressors. We
    have to rope start it now."

    FYI: Of the gas engine operated compressors we sold and serviced Honda
    had the lowest level of service issues of all gas motors. In generators
    we found Yamaha was a close second, but I don't recall having any Yamaha engines installed on compressors. I still have one of those old Yamaha generators and it still runs on the first or second pull.

    I guess I need to find out where I can buy a Rollaire if I really want a
    decent mid size (2 stage 80 gallon) or slightly larger compressor for my
    shop. A step up to a larger scroll compressor is out of my short or
    medium term budget.

    I never serviced Ingersol Rand.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Mon May 1 15:00:48 2023
    On Mon, 1 May 2023 10:52:25 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    If there is a centripetal (or centrifugal if you believe centripetal is
    not a real word) switch that is failing it may be start-able by spin >starting or by beating on the switch, cleaning its contacts, etc, but
    when there is zero observable reaction (heat/smell/sound) its clear that >whatever the issue it is "within" the motor. A spin start or beating on
    the switch may cause it to operate for a single cycle, but it does not >resolve the issue in a real manner.

    Found some pictures I took while I had my motor apart in 2012:

    https://i.postimg.cc/rwWcfMP1/Dayton-2hp.jpg

    Just an FYI, shows a lot of possible connection problems you can only
    get to by opening it up farther...

    I searched on the part number for your motor earlier. They sell for
    somewhere between $1400 to $2400 new 😲

    Hope you get some satisfaction with a warranty claim.

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Mon May 1 12:39:28 2023
    On 5/1/2023 12:00 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
    On Mon, 1 May 2023 10:52:25 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    If there is a centripetal (or centrifugal if you believe centripetal is
    not a real word) switch that is failing it may be start-able by spin
    starting or by beating on the switch, cleaning its contacts, etc, but
    when there is zero observable reaction (heat/smell/sound) its clear that
    whatever the issue it is "within" the motor. A spin start or beating on
    the switch may cause it to operate for a single cycle, but it does not
    resolve the issue in a real manner.

    Found some pictures I took while I had my motor apart in 2012:

    https://i.postimg.cc/rwWcfMP1/Dayton-2hp.jpg

    Just an FYI, shows a lot of possible connection problems you can only
    get to by opening it up farther...

    I searched on the part number for your motor earlier. They sell for
    somewhere between $1400 to $2400 new 😲

    Hope you get some satisfaction with a warranty claim.


    I found import replacements from $160 to about 240 and name brands from
    250 to 699.

    I certainly would not pay as much for a motor as I paid for the
    compressor.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 1 18:43:10 2023
    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2p290$a2jv$1@dont-email.me...

    https://i.postimg.cc/rwWcfMP1/Dayton-2hp.jpg

    -------------------------

    How do you like PostImage?

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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 1 18:38:42 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to start when
    it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is not
    proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
    compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
    pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

    ---------------------------

    Read the quote carefully.

    Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity? Recently I've fixed two electrical problems with the wire's end termination breaking off, which is repairable. The HF 240V spot welder had aluminum wire which I spliced to copper with a Eurostyle terminal block and "monkey snot".

    This winter a storm brought down my TV antenna, which has been up for at
    least five years. I had replaced the rivets with aluminum screws and coated
    the cleaned connections with GB Ox Gard and they still measure 20 milliOhms
    or less.

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 1 15:50:02 2023
    On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
    or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
    start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is
    not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
    compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
    pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

    ---------------------------

    Read the quote carefully.

    Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?
    Recently I've fixed two electrical problems with the wire's end
    termination breaking off, which is repairable. The HF 240V spot welder
    had aluminum wire which I spliced to copper with a Eurostyle terminal
    block and "monkey snot".

    This winter a storm brought down my TV antenna, which has been up for at least five years. I had replaced the rivets with aluminum screws and
    coated the cleaned connections with GB Ox Gard and they still measure 20 milliOhms or less.



    In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 1 19:41:01 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord or a
    deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to start when
    it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure is not
    proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank, the
    compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on the
    pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

    Read the quote carefully.

    Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?

    In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).

    Bob La Londe

    -------------------
    The quote states:
    "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient air pressure."

    That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components certainly
    didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure related no-start problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader failed to depressurize the compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP motor didn't have enough starting torque when run off a 3KW generator. The fix was to fabricate a keep-open
    cam lever that replaced the pull ring on the over-pressure relief, and open
    it before starting.

    I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that the
    gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged carbs and flat tires. My generators are intentionally too small to run their loads.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 1 18:40:26 2023
    On 5/1/2023 4:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
    or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
    start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure
    is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the tank,
    the compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in setting on
    the pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

    Read the quote carefully.

    Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?

    In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).

    Bob La Londe

    -------------------
    The quote states:
    "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient air pressure."

    That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components certainly didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure related
    no-start problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader failed to depressurize the compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP motor didn't
    have enough starting torque when run off a 3KW generator. The fix was to fabricate a keep-open cam lever that replaced the pull ring on the over-pressure relief, and open it before starting.

    I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that the
    gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged carbs and
    flat tires. My generators are intentionally too small to run their loads.


    Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally aspirated
    pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an unloader if
    anything when working properly "deprimes" them. If an unloader does
    fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open condition. Even if
    they failed in the closed condtion the motor would not do "nothing". It
    might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the thermal or more likely
    the breaker. It wouldn't do nothing at all. I have seen unloaders
    fail, but long term the check valve in the tank will always fail
    eventually. Again it doesn't make the motor do nothing. It just makes
    it cycle a LOT more often.

    I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you are
    grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait me.
    LOL. Terry? Did you put him up to this. LOL.

    In any case I am going to:

    a) Give the warranty company a chance to fix this.
    b) Order a whole nuther motor shortly anyway so I either have a spare
    on the shelf or have it fixed in a couple days either way. I do have a question regarding that, but I'll ask it in a new topic.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Mon May 1 19:12:31 2023
    On 5/1/2023 6:40 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 5/1/2023 4:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
    or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
    start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure
    is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the
    tank, the compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in
    setting on the pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

    Read the quote carefully.

    Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?

    In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).

    Bob La Londe

    -------------------
    The quote states:
    "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient
    air pressure."

    That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from
    elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components certainly
    didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure related
    no-start problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader failed to
    depressurize the compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP motor
    didn't have enough starting torque when run off a 3KW generator. The
    fix was to fabricate a keep-open cam lever that replaced the pull ring
    on the over-pressure relief, and open it before starting.

    I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that the
    gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged carbs and
    flat tires. My generators are intentionally too small to run their loads.


    Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally aspirated pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an unloader if
    anything when working properly "deprimes" them.  If an unloader does
    fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open condition.  Even if
    they failed in the closed condtion the motor would not do "nothing".  It might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the thermal or more likely
    the breaker.  It wouldn't do nothing at all.  I have seen unloaders
    fail, but long term the check valve in the tank will always fail eventually.  Again it doesn't make the motor do nothing.  It just makes
    it cycle a LOT more often.

    I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you are grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait me.
    LOL.  Terry?  Did you put him up to this.  LOL.

    In any case I am going to:

    a)  Give the warranty company a chance to fix this.
    b)  Order a whole nuther motor shortly anyway so I either have a spare
    on the shelf or have it fixed in a couple days either way.  I do have a question regarding that, but I'll ask it in a new topic.



    US MOTORS made in Mexico. I just assumed it was an Indian or Chinese
    motor.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Mon May 1 21:38:48 2023
    On 5/1/2023 8:40 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 5/1/2023 4:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power cord
    or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically fail to
    start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in pressure
    is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored in the
    tank, the compressor will often fail to start. Check the cut-in
    setting on the pressure switch and adjust the level accordingly."

    Read the quote carefully.

    Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?

    In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).

    Bob La Londe

    -------------------
    The quote states:
    "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient
    air pressure."

    That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from
    elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components certainly
    didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure related
    no-start problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader failed to
    depressurize the compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP motor
    didn't have enough starting torque when run off a 3KW generator. The
    fix was to fabricate a keep-open cam lever that replaced the pull ring
    on the over-pressure relief, and open it before starting.

    I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that the
    gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged carbs and
    flat tires. My generators are intentionally too small to run their loads.


    Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally aspirated pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an unloader if
    anything when working properly "deprimes" them.  If an unloader does
    fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open condition.  Even if
    they failed in the closed condtion the motor would not do "nothing".  It might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the thermal or more likely
    the breaker.  It wouldn't do nothing at all.  I have seen unloaders
    fail, but long term the check valve in the tank will always fail eventually.  Again it doesn't make the motor do nothing.  It just makes
    it cycle a LOT more often.

    I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you are grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait me.
    LOL.  Terry?  Did you put him up to this.  LOL.

    Not this time ... but I will say that the Grizzly motor I put on my
    4x6 bandsaw a few years ago has given good service . That saw sees quite
    a bit of weather , it sits barely under cover in front of the shop .



    In any case I am going to:

    a)  Give the warranty company a chance to fix this.
    b)  Order a whole nuther motor shortly anyway so I either have a spare
    on the shelf or have it fixed in a couple days either way.  I do have a question regarding that, but I'll ask it in a new topic.



    --
    Snag
    "You can lead a dummy to facts
    but you can't make him think."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Mon May 1 21:02:28 2023
    On 5/1/2023 7:12 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 5/1/2023 6:40 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 5/1/2023 4:41 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2pfmp$c6ef$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 3:38 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u2ou8u$9p9h$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/1/2023 10:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Aside from the obvious oversights such as a disconnected power
    cord or a deactivated power switch, a compressor will typically
    fail to start when it lacks sufficient air pressure. If the cut-in
    pressure is not proportional to the amount of air pressure stored
    in the tank, the compressor will often fail to start. Check the
    cut-in setting on the pressure switch and adjust the level
    accordingly."

    Read the quote carefully.

    Can you easily isolate the motor and check for winding continuity?

    In this case the tank pressure was zero (well atmospheric).

    Bob La Londe

    -------------------
    The quote states:
    "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient
    air pressure."

    That implies they need to be pre-primed with some compressed air from
    elsewhere. The three I've assembled from separate components
    certainly didn't, they start just fine from empty. The only pressure
    related no-start problem I've seen is when the Load Genie unloader
    failed to depressurize the compressor head soon enough and the 1/2HP
    motor didn't have enough starting torque when run off a 3KW
    generator. The fix was to fabricate a keep-open cam lever that
    replaced the pull ring on the over-pressure relief, and open it
    before starting.

    I shouldn't need compressed air during a power outage, except that
    the gennys the neighbors bring over to be fixed may have clogged
    carbs and flat tires. My generators are intentionally too small to
    run their loads.


    Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally
    aspirated pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an
    unloader if anything when working properly "deprimes" them.  If an
    unloader does fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open
    condition.  Even if they failed in the closed condtion the motor would
    not do "nothing".  It might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the
    thermal or more likely the breaker.  It wouldn't do nothing at all.  I
    have seen unloaders fail, but long term the check valve in the tank
    will always fail eventually.  Again it doesn't make the motor do
    nothing.  It just makes it cycle a LOT more often.

    I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you
    are grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait
    me. LOL.  Terry?  Did you put him up to this.  LOL.

    In any case I am going to:

    a)  Give the warranty company a chance to fix this.
    b)  Order a whole nuther motor shortly anyway so I either have a spare
    on the shelf or have it fixed in a couple days either way.  I do have
    a question regarding that, but I'll ask it in a new topic.



    US MOTORS made in Mexico.  I just assumed it was an Indian or Chinese
    motor.

    Looks like the IR J21C (on this compressor) is the same as a US Motors
    D20C or maybe a cheepified version of it.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 2 06:43:18 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2ppm9$ehac$1@dont-email.me...

    Most reciprocating compressors are simple reed valve naturally aspirated
    pumps that absolutely never need to be "primed" and an unloader if
    anything when working properly "deprimes" them. If an unloader does
    fail my experience is they tend to fail in the open condition. Even if
    they failed in the closed condtion the motor would not do "nothing". It
    might groan, whine, get hot and maybe trip the thermal or more likely
    the breaker. It wouldn't do nothing at all. I have seen unloaders
    fail, but long term the check valve in the tank will always fail
    eventually. Again it doesn't make the motor do nothing. It just makes
    it cycle a LOT more often.

    I'm not sure why this went off into the weeds like this, unless you are
    grining through your whiskey glass and seeing how far you can bait me.
    LOL. Terry? Did you put him up to this. LOL.

    -----------------------

    I wanted to see if anyone else would respond to that statement on a
    compressor dealer's web page the way I did.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue May 2 08:47:30 2023
    On Mon, 1 May 2023 18:43:10 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2p290$a2jv$1@dont-email.me...

    https://i.postimg.cc/rwWcfMP1/Dayton-2hp.jpg

    -------------------------

    How do you like PostImage?


    No sign-up needed, simple and seems to work. Use it for images
    that don't matter to me if they circulate unattributed. Curious...
    hadn't checked it recently, here is one I made in Oct, 2019:

    https://postimg.cc/gallery/yyeg562q/

    I see the id tag changes once the gallery is loaded...

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue May 2 09:02:18 2023
    On Tue, 2 May 2023 06:43:18 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    I wanted to see if anyone else would respond to that statement on a >compressor dealer's web page the way I did.

    I recall seeing that statement. Interpreted it to mean that the
    pressure switch was "satisfied". It was seeing pressure as high enough
    and not yet low enough to turn the motor on. Was skimming text though
    and maybe missed something. Having done service work for most of my
    career I could easily see getting a call-out for compressor not working
    and find the problem such that pressure had not dropped low
    enough for it to come on yet...

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue May 2 11:24:33 2023
    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2r1kq$n33d$2@dont-email.me...

    On Tue, 2 May 2023 06:43:18 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    I wanted to see if anyone else would respond to that statement on a >compressor dealer's web page the way I did.

    I recall seeing that statement. Interpreted it to mean that the
    pressure switch was "satisfied". It was seeing pressure as high enough
    and not yet low enough to turn the motor on. Was skimming text though
    and maybe missed something. Having done service work for most of my
    career I could easily see getting a call-out for compressor not working
    and find the problem such that pressure had not dropped low
    enough for it to come on yet...

    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI
    ----------------------

    I believe that was the intent, except for
    "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient air pressure"

    Perhaps no one proof-read what the front office help composed and posted?

    On the Internet small technical errors from authoritative sources tend to propagate widely. I don't trust my own knowledge all that far so I bring
    them up for comment.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue May 2 14:15:43 2023
    On Tue, 2 May 2023 11:24:33 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    I believe that was the intent, except for
    "a compressor will typically fail to start when it lacks sufficient air >pressure"

    Perhaps no one proof-read what the front office help composed and posted?

    On the Internet small technical errors from authoritative sources tend to >propagate widely. I don't trust my own knowledge all that far so I bring >them up for comment.

    I tend to "read" stuff as I think it was intended or makes sense
    without realizing it. It's not till someone like yourself points out
    errors that I then "see" it wasn't exactly as I'd interpreted it.

    Yet when the neighbor drives up to me on his lawn tractor with the
    front wheel about to fall off it strikes a nerve. He'd been happily
    mowing his lawn and had yet to notice even though it had been that
    way for a long time😲

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 2 16:22:28 2023
    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2rk0f$rr1k$1@dont-email.me...

    I tend to "read" stuff as I think it was intended or makes sense
    without realizing it. It's not till someone like yourself points out
    errors that I then "see" it wasn't exactly as I'd interpreted it.

    Yet when the neighbor drives up to me on his lawn tractor with the
    front wheel about to fall off it strikes a nerve. He'd been happily
    mowing his lawn and had yet to notice even though it had been that
    way for a long time😲

    Leon Fisk

    -------------------------

    I'm inherently like that too. I've studied enough foreign languages to have grammatical correctness drummed into my brain, and I proof-read and edit my
    own postings until they blur before hitting Send.

    I flunked Technical Writing in college because I couldn't settle on a
    logical linear path through what to me is a multidimensional network of
    facts and relationships. I started posting here for practice and found it
    much easier without the pressure to avoid mistakes. You may complain (good feedback) or not understand but you don't grade me or sign my paycheck.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue May 2 16:34:46 2023
    On Tue, 2 May 2023 16:22:28 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    I'm inherently like that too. I've studied enough foreign languages to have >grammatical correctness drummed into my brain, and I proof-read and edit my >own postings until they blur before hitting Send.

    I re-read too yet still miss stuff until after I hit "send". I let a
    lot of stuff slide in places like this for both myself and others. If I
    make a glaring error I'll try to follow up with a correction.

    I don't "get" poetry other than something like Ogden Nash. A bit of
    rhyme and dash of humor with it. I suspect that poetry and grammer
    enthusiasts view wordplay much as I appreciate a good mechanical
    mechanism that makes no sense to them ;-)

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 2 21:51:24 2023
    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2rs56$rr1k$2@dont-email.me...

    I don't "get" poetry other than something like Ogden Nash. A bit of
    rhyme and dash of humor with it. I suspect that poetry and grammer
    enthusiasts view wordplay much as I appreciate a good mechanical
    mechanism that makes no sense to them ;-)
    Leon Fisk

    -----------------

    I've tried to pick up some "culture" but not that much stuck. I like
    "Carmen" for the lively music and Western-type story, its overture plays
    after the national anthems at the end of Formula 1 races. I was roped into
    tech work in film and theatre and enjoy a good musical.

    Mensa mixed the Boston literati with scientists and engineers, usually successfully. Yes, the puns flew thickly. There was relatively little
    drinking at parties because they all were too busy talking. Generally I
    could keep up with everything, even Baroque composers, but if the topic
    drifted too far off a couple of us amateur historians would start discussing the battles on the Russian Front. High tech was also usually off the table although Byte's publisher Wayne Green was a member, as was Richard Lederer,
    the author of Get Thee to a Punnery.

    The captain of the state high school quiz show championship team came to a Trivial Pursuit night and left with his jaw hanging down because we blew him away so thoroughly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerry@21:1/5 to muratlanne@gmail.com on Tue May 2 23:38:20 2023
    On Tue, 2 May 2023 21:51:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
    <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u2rs56$rr1k$2@dont-email.me...

    I don't "get" poetry other than something like Ogden Nash. A bit of
    rhyme and dash of humor with it. I suspect that poetry and grammer >enthusiasts view wordplay much as I appreciate a good mechanical
    mechanism that makes no sense to them ;-)
    Leon Fisk

    -----------------

    I've tried to pick up some "culture" but not that much stuck. I like
    "Carmen" for the lively music and Western-type story, its overture plays >after the national anthems at the end of Formula 1 races. I was roped into >tech work in film and theatre and enjoy a good musical.

    Mensa mixed the Boston literati with scientists and engineers, usually >successfully. Yes, the puns flew thickly. There was relatively little >drinking at parties because they all were too busy talking. Generally I
    could keep up with everything, even Baroque composers, but if the topic >drifted too far off a couple of us amateur historians would start discussing >the battles on the Russian Front. High tech was also usually off the table >although Byte's publisher Wayne Green was a member, as was Richard Lederer, >the author of Get Thee to a Punnery.

    The captain of the state high school quiz show championship team came to a >Trivial Pursuit night and left with his jaw hanging down because we blew him >away so thoroughly.
    I used to see some very odd responces when I posed a question to a
    foriegn born designer who would translate my querry into his/her birth language; come up with a response and translate that into english. I
    discussed this with a foriegn born freind one time and he agreed that
    he sometimes did this even after working in English for over twenty
    years even though he had made a cosious effort to eliminate the
    process after about eight years

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 3 07:31:01 2023
    "Gerry" wrote in message news:o2l35id94k4cdk9mi3lfhsn6u4qedj18lk@4ax.com...

    I used to see some very odd responces when I posed a question to a
    foriegn born designer who would translate my querry into his/her birth language; come up with a response and translate that into english. I
    discussed this with a foriegn born freind one time and he agreed that
    he sometimes did this even after working in English for over twenty
    years even though he had made a cosious effort to eliminate the
    process after about eight years

    --------------------

    English is largely a forced mix of Saxon German and Norman French, which is
    why it has so many synonyms with slightly different meanings, one from each. They make it more expressive if you know them, confusing if you don't.
    French and English translate word-for-word awkwardly but relatively understandably while German may have to be restructured to be
    comprehensible, word-for-word translations may not make sense. I'm slowly learning to understand the patterns of Chinglish.

    My vocabulary is insufficient to think seriously in either of them.

    I have this in both languages and the very natural sounding English version shifts ideas into different sentences, it was translated by paragraph. https://www.biblio.com/book/luftwaffe-war-diaries-angriffshohe-4000-cajus/d/1452648050

    Looking at how the Bible has been translated from Hebrew/Greek to Latin to English, it's easy to see why versions can differ. Even the Roman-era
    originals that survived don't match each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_uncial_codices

    Dancer Carrie Ann Inaba who is part Japanese but can't read it got a tattoo that was intended to mean Courageous Love. It actually translates to Rough
    Sex.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Wed May 3 09:11:08 2023
    On 5/3/2023 4:31 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Gerry"  wrote in message
    news:o2l35id94k4cdk9mi3lfhsn6u4qedj18lk@4ax.com...

    I used to see some very odd responces when I posed a question to a
    foriegn born designer who would translate my querry into his/her birth language; come up with a response and translate that into english. I discussed this with a foriegn born freind one time and he agreed that
    he sometimes did this even after working in English for over twenty
    years even though he had made a cosious effort to eliminate the
    process after about eight years

    --------------------

    English is largely a forced mix of Saxon German and Norman French, which
    is why it has so many synonyms with slightly different meanings, one
    from each. They make it more expressive if you know them, confusing if
    you don't. French and English translate word-for-word awkwardly but relatively understandably while German may have to be restructured to be comprehensible, word-for-word translations may not make sense. I'm
    slowly learning to understand the patterns of Chinglish.

    My vocabulary is insufficient to think seriously in either of them.

    I have this in both languages and the very natural sounding English
    version shifts ideas into different sentences, it was translated by paragraph. https://www.biblio.com/book/luftwaffe-war-diaries-angriffshohe-4000-cajus/d/1452648050

    Looking at how the Bible has been translated from Hebrew/Greek to Latin
    to English, it's easy to see why versions can differ. Even the Roman-era originals that survived don't match each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_uncial_codices

    Dancer Carrie Ann Inaba who is part Japanese but can't read it got a
    tattoo that was intended to mean Courageous Love. It actually translates
    to Rough Sex.


    That is hysterical.

    Personal perspective.

    I don't really speak Spanish after living in a bilingual part of the
    country my entire life. I got good grades in conversational Spanish in
    college because I am good at taking tests and learning rules. I don't
    actually speak more than pidgeon Spanish. "Donde el bano", "tu quero
    cervesa," "yo gusto uno por favor," e no mas mucho. I do however make
    local native spanish speakers think I am more fluent than I am because I
    have a fair peasant accent when speaking Spanish having learned most of
    it from farm workers. Sadly when somebody rattles off Spanish in my
    vicinity I typically only catch a few words. Things like pinche gringo
    are easy to catch.

    However, when I spent a fair amount of time in Mexico installing and
    servicing some video surveillance systems (I was there often enough and
    long enough I had to renew my Mexican work visa twice). I would start
    to get immersion thought process changes. I would start thinking in
    pidgeon Spanish and understand the meaning of what people where saying
    from context because I could follow the speech patterns. It was purely temporary. Two or three days, certainly within a week, back in an
    "American English" speaking environment and it is gone.

    That being said I firmly believe that immersion is the best way to learn
    a language. Where I live now nearly every native Spanish (or rather
    Mexican Spanish) speaker is competent if not fluent in American English.
    They see the white guy and they speak English. Just across the border
    in San Luis or Algondones most merchants speak atleast a little better
    than pidgeon English, and I can usually get my points across well enough
    to find out if they expect to negotiate or not. I do not consider that
    to be immersion. You get just a little way from the border away from
    tourist destinations and even if they speak English they won't. Cuervos
    or Morelos, etc. Just a little way from the border, and you better
    atleast know basic phrases or you will go thirsty and shit yourself.
    That's not really immersion though. You spend much time there and
    people learn you aren't a rubbernecking dirt bag tourist and show some
    respect and they open up and you find many of them will help you and
    they speak more English than they let on. If I really wanted to learn
    Spanish I think the thing to do would be to rent an apartment in a
    middle class working neighborhood in Mexico city. My work visa is long
    expired and didn't actually allow me to hold local jobs anyway so I
    would have to have a good reason to be there. Student, retired, but not
    rich, etc. Make friends. Bake to many pies and give them to neighbors,
    etc. Live with my neighbors.

    There may be other great reasons for college students to spend a year
    abroad, but I think this is probably the best reason. Forced immersion
    to become competent in a language that is not your native one. To learn
    to think in your field of study and learn the thought process and logic
    flow of a different system of speech. Often a much better structured
    logic flow than English. Acceptable American English has somewhat
    chaotic logic flow, and may well be the cause of some people not being
    able to express their ideas well. They were never taught to force their thoughts into a logical flow and structure. The inverse is that its complicated and chaotic rules can sometimes allow for the rapid
    expression of very complex ideas. I have found myself giving an
    instruction to an employee only to see an expression of absolute and
    utter confusion spread across their face. I'll stop, play back what I
    said in my head, and think, "No I gave them everything they needed to
    know. Why do they look totally befuddled?"

    Worse, even with all its chaotic rules, once you start to learn how to
    write English within them a mid level writing teacher will teach you
    there are times to break the rules. Sure a staccato list of simple
    sentences to pass on facts are easy to understand, and if you break them
    up with a few compound sentences to reiterate key points you make it
    less tedious to read, but if you want to have people follow you down the
    rabbit hole there are times when only a run on sentence will do the job.
    No, "It was a dark and stormy night," is NOT a good example.


    Mild Tangent: Language can shape thought. There are one or two ways
    this has been presented in science fiction, but at the moment I can't
    think of any of the titles. If I do and can still find this thread I'll
    post them. I think its also why Esperanto never caught on. Its all
    structure and no meat. It has no soul and no rich embodiment of
    humanity as nearly every other language does. It shapes nothing. In
    the end we are not machines. We are meat and we make noise by pushing
    air through wet flappy meat.

    Extra Credit: There is a great science fiction short story by Terry
    Bisson that embodies my last sentence above. Its not really "directly"
    about language, but it is one of the tenants of appreciating the premise.

    http://www.terrybisson.com/theyre-made-out-of-meat-2/

    Wild Tangent: Most of you have probably already read it, but its one of
    my favorites. Right up there with Larry Niven's "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex."

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Wed May 3 13:04:03 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u2u12t$1bjjh$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/3/2023 4:31 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    Dancer Carrie Ann Inaba who is part Japanese but can't read it got a
    tattoo that was intended to mean Courageous Love. It actually translates
    to Rough Sex.

    That is hysterical.

    -----------------------------

    She is hysterical, ad-libbing her craziness on live network TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE7aF4pPDLY

    Niecy Nash became very upset that the DWTS judges could out-do her as
    sarcastic comedians.

    I never studied Spanish but thanks to Latin and French I can partly read it.
    I didn't really understand English until I encountered the fully structured rules of grammar in Latin. I think English is powerful for the freedom and adaptability it allows, despite its messiness.

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Thu May 4 09:39:30 2023
    On 4/30/2023 2:49 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 4/30/2023 12:11 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:


    In the mean time I guess I'll have to go grab my 29 year old Campbell
    Hausfeld roll around out of the garage to run the shop air.  I don't
    think it will carry the whole shop, but I can probably use one or two
    machines at a time with it.


    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

    Got it about 2/3 of the over to the shop, and a wheel fell off.

    I guess 29 years in the Arizona heat is a bit much for those plastic
    wheels.




    UPS is almost back to their normal level of incompetence. USPS has
    picked a "new normal" that while a lower quality of service than it once
    was is consistent. Sadly Fed-Ex hasn't changed a bit.

    Friday 5/5/2023 by end of day
    estimated between 12:30 pm - 4:30 pm

    Initially expected: Wednesday, 5/3/2023

    The new motor I bought independently is stuck in Chino Ca.  The same
    place that has managed to break multiple other heavy packages.  I
    honestly think their are guys there who espouse an active hatred of
    unloading heavy packages to they just push them out of the truck onto
    the concrete below.  They say it will be here Friday, but I won't hold
    my breath.  When it gets delayed in Chino they often do nothing until I
    can beg, plead, and if necessary bully the shipper into filing a claim.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri May 5 14:07:23 2023
    On 5/4/2023 9:39 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 4/30/2023 2:49 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 4/30/2023 12:11 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:


    In the mean time I guess I'll have to go grab my 29 year old Campbell
    Hausfeld roll around out of the garage to run the shop air.  I don't
    think it will carry the whole shop, but I can probably use one or two
    machines at a time with it.


    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

    Got it about 2/3 of the over to the shop, and a wheel fell off.

    I guess 29 years in the Arizona heat is a bit much for those plastic
    wheels.




    UPS is almost back to their normal level of incompetence. USPS has
    picked a "new normal" that while a lower quality of service than it once
    was is consistent. Sadly Fed-Ex hasn't changed a bit.

    Friday 5/5/2023 by end of day
    estimated between 12:30 pm - 4:30 pm

    Initially expected: Wednesday, 5/3/2023

    The new motor I bought independently is stuck in Chino Ca.  The same
    place that has managed to break multiple other heavy packages.  I
    honestly think their are guys there who espouse an active hatred of
    unloading heavy packages to they just push them out of the truck onto
    the concrete below.  They say it will be here Friday, but I won't hold
    my breath.  When it gets delayed in Chino they often do nothing until I
    can beg, plead, and if necessary bully the shipper into filing a claim.



    I'm stunned. The motor I was waiting on to get my shop air going again
    arrived today only two days late, and it doesn't even look like the guys
    in Chino pushed it off the back of the truck and dropped it. No clue
    why they held it up for two extra days though. There is actually
    nothing wrong with the box, the original packing tape is all intact, and
    the original shipping label is clear and undamaged. I fired up the air compressor about an hour ago. Now I am debating working or going fishing.


    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri May 5 17:42:52 2023
    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u33rrs$2f592$1@dont-email.me...

    On Fri, 5 May 2023 14:07:23 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    Now I am debating working or going fishing.

    Cool! Hard to argue about whether it was the motor or not too👍

    Enough STRESS, go fishing ;-)

    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    ----------------------

    Agreed, it's time to de-compress.

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri May 5 17:18:52 2023
    On Fri, 5 May 2023 14:07:23 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    Now I am debating working or going fishing.

    Cool! Hard to argue about whether it was the motor or not too👍

    Enough STRESS, go fishing ;-)

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Fri May 5 16:27:17 2023
    On 5/5/2023 2:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:


    "Leon Fisk"  wrote in message news:u33rrs$2f592$1@dont-email.me...

    On Fri, 5 May 2023 14:07:23 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    Now I am debating working or going fishing.

    Cool! Hard to argue about whether it was the motor or not too👍

    Enough STRESS, go fishing ;-)

    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids  MI

    ----------------------

    Agreed, it's time to de-compress.


    I went ahead and ran jobs. Its kind of a bit of a relief to walk in the
    little machine room and see three machines running at the same time.
    Now if only I could quit screwing up jobs.

    I was running a job yesterday on just one machine. Its got unequal
    gating due to the shape of the mold cavities. I was running a small
    batch job and just after it cut the first pair of gates I paused the
    machine because I think I got the unequal gate depth backwards. I
    checked the CAM, seemed like it was right so I went back and hit resume.

    Today I was finally inspecting the plate... and nope! I was wrong the
    first time. Frack! Its a stock design so it has some value as
    "rejects" but I'd rather have done it right and sold them at full price.

    A custom job I am running is also flaking out. For some reason the CAM
    wants to jump around on the finish passes breaking cutters. I can't
    figure out why so I finally told it to use the old slow, no efficiency calculations scan line method. It will take the job an extra hour, but
    that's still faster than doing it over again. It didn't show up in cut simulation. The simulator just shows the results of the tool paths.
    Double Frack! I already scrapped one plate. I paused the other one and
    was able to resume with a new code file atleast.

    You guys are right. I should have gone fishing.





    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 5 21:32:52 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u343cm$2hemk$1@dont-email.me...

    You guys are right. I should have gone fishing.

    ----------------------

    I spent much of yesterday fighting a frozen 50-year-old toilet shutoff
    valve. After I managed to disassemble, clean, grease and reassemble it, and replace the tank fill valve, I took a break long enough to forget everything and then went back to test it, and could see the remaining problems with
    fresh eyes.

    As a theatre set carpenter I was taught to periodically go out to the seats
    to view scenery I'd built as though I was seeing it for the first time, to catch anything out-of-place that I'd become accustomed to (before the
    director mentioned it).

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  • From Gerry@21:1/5 to muratlanne@gmail.com on Fri May 5 23:10:17 2023
    On Fri, 5 May 2023 17:42:52 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
    <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:



    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u33rrs$2f592$1@dont-email.me...

    On Fri, 5 May 2023 14:07:23 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    Now I am debating working or going fishing.

    Cool! Hard to argue about whether it was the motor or not too?

    Enough STRESS, go fishing ;-)

    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    ----------------------

    Agreed, it's time to de-compress.
    Besides, it might rain tomorrow!

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  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat May 6 06:52:05 2023
    On 5/5/2023 8:32 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:u343cm$2hemk$1@dont-email.me...

    You guys are right.  I should have gone fishing.

    ----------------------

    I spent much of yesterday fighting a frozen 50-year-old toilet shutoff
    valve. After I managed to disassemble, clean, grease and reassemble it,
    and replace the tank fill valve, I took a break long enough to forget everything and then went back to test it, and could see the remaining problems with fresh eyes.

    As a theatre set carpenter I was taught to periodically go out to the
    seats to view scenery I'd built as though I was seeing it for the first
    time, to catch anything out-of-place that I'd become accustomed to
    (before the director mentioned it).


    I spent the better [art of the day working on the SUV ... several
    years ago it blew a spark plug out of the head . When I repaired it I
    didn't use loctite on the insert , and apparently didn't flare the
    "lock" at the top enough . It came out on the way to town . Lucky me all
    I had to do was clean up the threads and install a new insert . With
    loctite and made sure I flared the top enough with the supplied tool .
    Also had to replace a coil pack , total repair cost was about 60 bucks .
    --
    Snag
    "You can lead a dummy to facts
    but you can't make him think."

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Sat May 6 09:28:30 2023
    On Fri, 5 May 2023 16:27:17 -0700
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

    <snip>
    You guys are right. I should have gone fishing.

    I would have done the same thing, get work done and keep dreaming about
    goofing off. 'Tis my nature even though I would be better off taking a
    break ;-)

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Sun May 14 11:26:36 2023
    On 4/30/2023 12:11 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    Just barely over a year ago I bought a 5HP Ingersol Rand compressor for
    my shop to replace the 3.7HP Lowes Kobalt compressor that had supplied
    the shop's air for just over 4 years previously.

    I walked in the shop this morning with a plan to knock out a few jobs
    and catch up a little bit.  I'm modifying some work pallets to mount in vises on the table rather than have to remove the vises to mount them to
    the table.  I got lucky and figured out a way to block them up in the
    vises on the manual mill in the back, and then proceeded to blow the
    chips off the vise surfaces.

    NO AIR.  I had not turned the compressor off last night as I normally
    do, so I was rather surprised.

    Breaker is not tripped.  Pressure switch is working.  Good voltage
    inside the motor cover.  Thermal is not tripped.  Caps not blown, and
    they do their slow charge thing when I slap a continuity tester on them.
     I don't know where my cap tester meter is, but I'm fairly confident
    the caps are okay.  The motor is just dead.

    Original IR warranty is only 1 year, but I bought a 2 year extended warranty.  Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be one of those warranties
    that are the reason I don't usually buy extended warranties.

    In the mean time I guess I'll have to go grab my 29 year old Campbell Hausfeld roll around out of the garage to run the shop air.  I don't
    think it will carry the whole shop, but I can probably use one or two machines at a time with it.



    Just for the heck of it I dropped a message off to Ingersol Rand back
    when this misadventure started. Today I am editorializing their
    response I received today.

    A motor failure at 13 months and your response is, "Hey, we can sell you another shitty motor, cash in on your stupidity for buying from us, and
    screw you again."

    Hard pass. If you have something other than capitalizing and
    profiteering on my poor choice of a compressor to offer feel free to let
    me know what that is. Otherwise don't waste our time.

    I don't think will buy another Ingersol Rand Tool compressor based on
    the opinions I formed based on my actual experience with this one. I
    probably won't buy another IR anything, but another modestly big ticket
    item. Sorry, I can't afford to play roulette against the house.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Owner, chef, cook, bottle washer, and FINAL decision maker.


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