I first heard this from one of those talking heads on the radio. Well,
it was radio. I guess it could have been a talking butt hole. It can
say with 100% certainty.

Anyway, as I recall it they were talking about some sort of study where
the general consensus was that nearly every man feels like they are
smarter than everybody else, but interestingly they found that was not
the case with women.

I think this is what Jim and others were experiencing in the work places described in other threads. After I heard this I tried to look at
situations with this in mind. Nearly every time I had a conflict with a
male friend, co worker, vendors, or employee I could see how in some way
they thought they were better or smarter than me in some way that was
more important than anyways they might have to grudginly admit I was
better. Bigger, tougher, smarter, cleverer, book smarts vs street
smarts etc.

"You may have more knowledge, but I have street smarts." "Yeah, you
might have a high IQ, but I'm better at manipulating you." They are
bald facing fucking lies we tell ourselves to make us feel like we are
smarter than every other person on the room in some way. Some will even
claim they are not that so dumb as to think that's true, so they can
feel smarter for not believing it. Wow! Talk about convoluted self
delusion.

There are some rare false exceptions. Some beta males will publicly
appear to defer those superior traits to others, but in their hearts
they think that makes them smarter because somebody else puts their face
on the risks, but they still get the benefit.

I don't have any opinion on the original comments about women. Since I
am not one I do not have that kind of personal insight. I just know
they nearly all in my opinion want to be mysterious, tough, and want men
to think they are "badder" than they are.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:ueptkl$1eu42$1@dont-email.me...

Anyway, as I recall it they were talking about some sort of study where
the general consensus was that nearly every man feels like they are
smarter than everybody else, but interestingly they found that was not
the case with women.

------------------------
Women may have learned to be better at hiding it. I've worked with Asian
women who felt free to let their inherent dominance show. We got along fine because I patiently listened and agreed with them. That's why I wouldn't
take the position of Production Manager, though I've done it informally as liaison with Engineering when no one else dared to. The smartest, (hottest) boldest and most dominant of the girls (Irish, not Asian) hunted me down and married me.

I knew damn well I wasn't smarter or as good at higher math than most of the engineers I worked for and learned from, so I tried to gain a broader
practical education to complement their deep and often narrowly focused theoretical one. As I've often done here I didn't question the basis of
their request without a good reason such as halving the complexity and difficulty by questioning an unjustified requirement. One such change was a simple geometric modification that eliminated a difficult computational problem, along the lines of replacing a worn leadscrew with a ball screw and DRO though not as obvious. That reduced the problem from what graphics processors are needed for to what a Z80 could handle.

For an example that I can more fully disclose I built a shielded test
fixture to measure and display the decay rate of dielectric charge
absorption of Teflon insulation for a Ph.D engineer who had previously
designed an attoAmmeter, an electron counter. The fixture had a higher than expected noise level which I identified as from the building's newly
installed 30KHz ultrasonic motion detectors, since I had talked to the installers, and he calculated in his head that it was vibrating the
shielding panels by about one micron to induce the observed capacitive coupling. I then diagonally creased the panels on the shop's brake to
stiffen them, which cured the problem. He knew what he wanted, I knew how to build it for him.

https://www.idc-online.com/technical_references/pdfs/electrical_engineering/Dielectric_Absorption_Test.pdf
In this case after a voltage change from a previous test we were seeing
relay matrix insulation discharge a few picoAmps that decayed in 5-10mS,
which was enough to interfere with high speed, high resistance testing on computer memory chips.

The knowledge of high speed, low level computerized measurement I gained on that job enabled me to jump into digital radio design at Mitre, where the expert radio engineers knew relatively little of computer hardware
interfacing. A still-active retiree there taught me enough about superheterodyne radio to survive, as digitizing the IF frequency eliminated
all the demodulation hardware. I still had to take night classes to keep up.
We Mitre techs joked that our job was scrubbing the bottom of the Think
Tank. I considered it like spending our days at a Country Club because we
were the groundskeepers.

When the rain stops I'll be out fixing rust on the car instead of in
composing these essays.

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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:ueptkl$1eu42$1@dont-email.me...

Anyway, as I recall it they were talking about some sort of study where
the general consensus was that nearly every man feels like they are
smarter than everybody else, but interestingly they found that was not
the case with women.

----------------------------------

That raises the question of what "smart" really is, which came up sometimes
at Mensa parties, less often than you might guess. We were all strong in
some areas and weak in others, both men and women. The mathematicians
weren't the quickest to figure the collective tip at group dinners and the writers not always the fastest with puns or snappy comebacks. I'd say the engineers and programmers were the most well-rounded which annoyed the
liberal arts grads, possibly because we practiced analyzing and solving new problems while they had been taught only to regurgitate the paradigm of accepted knowledge they'd been fed. I got that from an article one of them wrote.

Boston and NYC Mensans were more inclined to try to impress others with
their brilliance, a risky undertaking in that bunch. Colleges are often
urban so their studies may suffer from sampling bias. I think the people who remain out here in flyover country are generally more self-reliant and
secure, less neurotic and codependent, regardless of intelligence.

We agreed to interview a reporter once at a restaurant dinner gathering and watched her wander around with her notepad looking for her image of the
smart people. Finally we called her out. She said the leader of our group reminded her of a Bulgarian weightlifter so she passed us by.

The group consensus was to omit Mensa from our resumes so we wouldn't be assumed arrogant.

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On 9/24/2023 3:36 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:ueptkl$1eu42$1@dont-email.me...

Anyway, as I recall it they were talking about some sort of study where
the general consensus was that nearly every man feels like they are
smarter than everybody else, but interestingly they found that was not
the case with women.

----------------------------------

That raises the question of what "smart" really is,

No, I don't think so. Its whatever the person defining smart thinks
makes them superior.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uesdrj$20l0k$1@dont-email.me...

On 9/24/2023 3:36 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:ueptkl$1eu42$1@dont-email.me...

Anyway, as I recall it they were talking about some sort of study where
the general consensus was that nearly every man feels like they are
smarter than everybody else, but interestingly they found that was not
the case with women.

----------------------------------

That raises the question of what "smart" really is,

No, I don't think so. Its whatever the person defining smart thinks
makes them superior.
Bob La Londe

--------------------------

To me smartness a measure of how accurately one can analyze and understand a problem or situation, and solve or adapt to it, how close to reality their mental model is. Whether or not they need to feel superior to others is an emotional rather than intellectual dimension, orthogonal and perhaps
inversely proportional to their actual abilities. I found Ph.Ds more likely
to listen to my suggestions than production workers. Then they'd politely explain exactly why I was wrong and help me learn more.

In the intellectually challenging scholastic, scientific and engineering research environments I've mostly been in we were often acutely aware of our limitations from recent experience. That's why I wouldn't stand under a
hoist I'd designed without testing it, buy instead of attempting to design switching power supplies and don't offer to weld aluminum.

When we neared graduation a professor told us not to believe that we were
now real chemists, only that we had learned enough of the basics to
understand the explanations when we took a job somewhere. It's like learning feeds and speeds and the controls doesn't make one a machinist, it only
reduces their costly errors as they learn the rest.

I've been watching a detective show on PBS, the German "Luna & Sophie",
where the viewer knows only as much as the female detectives do and sees
them build up sometimes false guesses of who dun it, which change as the
clues accumulate. Often several suspects might have the motive and
opportunity. The killer finally confesses under pressure and guilt and then
you see the crime committed. It's not too different from solving an
engineering problem. I read high-tech accident reports which also lead
through the puzzling clues before revealing the final conclusion. https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accidentreports/reports/aar-90-06.pdf
I'd taken that flight to Denver not long before.

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I wrote:
"Whether or not they need to feel superior to others is an
emotional rather than intellectual dimension, orthogonal and perhaps
inversely proportional to their actual abilities."

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/what-is-a-superiority-complex
"According to this theory, some people react by working hard to master
skills and complete achievements. [me]

However, people with very strong feelings of inferiority have a hard time convincing themselves that they have actually achieved enough. To
compensate, Adler argues that these people play up their accomplishments and opinions to make themselves feel better."

American politics is a good fit to a pattern of superiority/inferiority complexes based on financial and social success or lack of it and the
resulting envy and blame-shifting. It also fits a closely related analysis
of mature self-reliance vs childish dependence, which socialism promises to continue after the parents end their support.

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This method of assessing peoples' potential appears in several versions, in
one the ambitious but stupid officer is a rabble rouser who should be taken
out back and shot.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/28/clever-lazy/

In college the radical leftist SDS somehow got the impression that I and my roommate might be useful fellow travellers, perhaps because I tend to listen patiently to everyone, less from sympathy than to collect sociological field data. Their leadership exactly matched the profile of ambitious and stupid, born losers with dreams of power, in complete denial of their incompetence.

They obviously had outside foreign influence because they closely followed
the model of socialist political agitation I had learned from excellent teachers in high school history classes, yet the SDS knew nothing of its history such as the dispute between Marx and Bakunin. https://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/Propaganda/goebbels.html

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On 9/26/2023 6:13 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

This method of assessing peoples' potential appears in several versions,
in one the ambitious but stupid officer is a rabble rouser who should be taken out back and shot. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/28/clever-lazy/

In college the radical leftist SDS somehow got the impression that I and
my roommate might be useful fellow travellers, perhaps because I tend to listen patiently to everyone, less from sympathy than to collect
sociological field data. Their leadership exactly matched the profile of ambitious and stupid, born losers with dreams of power, in complete
denial of their incompetence.

They obviously had outside foreign influence because they closely
followed the model of socialist political agitation I had learned from excellent teachers in high school history classes, yet the SDS knew
nothing of its history such as the dispute between Marx and Bakunin. https://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/Propaganda/goebbels.html

I run the risk of branding myself as one of those who is lazy and just
wants the one simple answer here, but I really think the original
premise is still the best one. Every man in the room thinks he's the
smartest man in the room. Defining smart is always going to be weighted
by the bias of that "smartest man in the room."

People who want the one simplest answer boiled down often drive me
bonkers.


--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:uev2fl$2jfj6$1@dont-email.me...

On 9/26/2023 6:13 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

This method of assessing peoples' potential appears in several versions,
in one the ambitious but stupid officer is a rabble rouser who should be taken out back and shot. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/28/clever-lazy/

In college the radical leftist SDS somehow got the impression that I and
my roommate might be useful fellow travellers, perhaps because I tend to listen patiently to everyone, less from sympathy than to collect
sociological field data. Their leadership exactly matched the profile of ambitious and stupid, born losers with dreams of power, in complete denial
of their incompetence.

They obviously had outside foreign influence because they closely followed the model of socialist political agitation I had learned from excellent teachers in high school history classes, yet the SDS knew nothing of its history such as the dispute between Marx and Bakunin. https://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/Propaganda/goebbels.html

I run the risk of branding myself as one of those who is lazy and just
wants the one simple answer here, but I really think the original
premise is still the best one. Every man in the room thinks he's the
smartest man in the room. Defining smart is always going to be weighted
by the bias of that "smartest man in the room."
People who want the one simplest answer boiled down often drive me
bonkers.
Bob La Londe

---------------------------

Then you can be the General. I was only a Sergeant and don't want the burden
of going further. I dropped out of ROTC.

In physics the concept of a point of reference is very important. If you
walk down a subway car aisle are you moving at walking speed, the speed of
the car, the rotation of Earth, its orbital velocity or galactic motion?
What you perceive totally depends on what you are able to observe and what
your goals are, whether reaching an empty seat or the next station or being
on time for an appointment (Earth's rotation).

Each man in that room has his own point of reference to compare others to,
all opinions of equal weight and probably all wrong from an unbiased
external viewpoint. That's their mental model.

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