"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v4q2pi$skkt$1@dont-email.me...
After Jim's suggestions to make my own tool box I started looking at low volume (as in physical space) methods of creating all the pivot points.
The actual hinges of the box lids may need to be actual hinges. I'm not sure I have the ability with the tools I currently own to make slip
rolled hinges from the sheet metal. They would need to be rolled quite small. I do have a spot welder so it might be a good place to look into learning to use it.
----------------------------------
I'd like to own a separate shear and finger brake but I lack the space,
so when I ran a well equipped company model shop I experimented to see
how little I could get away with at home. It came down to a 30" shear/brake/roll and hand tools like "seamer" pliers, a clone of the
Roper #5 punch and layout tools. Punching is much neater than drilling sheetmetal, and the punch has a point to help align it in a layout
dimple. Intersecting corners in a box should end in a small punched
hole. A corner notcher is nice to have when folding trays and boxes, I
bought one at auction, but it's not essential.
.
I've formed a hinge barrel around a rod in the bottom of a U bend by squeezing/hammering the folded flap shut, tightly up against the rod.
This is easier and stronger than trying to roll up only the edge and
leaves space for the spotwelds. I think the grooves in the 3-in-1's slip rollers could do it more neatly than I did with blocks of scrap, if I
had planned the sequence of operations better. It helps to try your
intended bends etc on scrap to be sure of machine clearances and limits.
For instance I can't form a flange less than 1/2" wide with the press
brake because a narrower one will slide down into the lower die. If I
bend a narrower flange over an edge with a soft hammer the metal must be moved a little at a time from end to end or else it will stretch and
warp the flange. Hammering on a piece of wood held against the flange
works better than pounding directly on it, and sharpens the corner.
For the tray link pivots I might make the links thick enough to tap for
short or cut-off machine screws, use hobby store brass tube as the pivot bushing and lightly peen or Loctite the end of the threads into the
link. The OD of #5 screws is 1/8", #6 is 9/64" and #10 is 3/16". #8 may
be slightly over 5/32", a tap will fit it. The heel of my small anvil is handy for riveting 3D shapes.
Sheet metal can be sheared with a cold chisel along the top edges of
hardened vise jaws, preferably reversed to put their smooth back sides against the work. This is useful for cutouts. It can be milled by
screwing it to plywood around the edges and through any/all existing holes.
Good luck!
After Jim's suggestions to make my own tool box I started looking at
low volume (as in physical space) methods of creating all the pivot
points. The actual hinges of the box lids may need to be actual
hinges. I'm not sure I have the ability with the tools I currently
own to make slip rolled hinges from the sheet metal. They would need
to be rolled quite small. I do have a spot welder so it might be a
good place to look into learning to use it.
My big concern is the smooth tight pivoting of the tray links. A pop
rivet might not work for a couple reasons. First is that it would
clamp the link to the tray, and the send is that even the shortest pop
rivet sticks into the space beyond a noticeable amount. I got to
wonder if there was a rivet that is designed to leave a fixed space
between the flange and the mushroom. To be used obviously as a pivot
pin instead of a corby bolt, a machine screw, or other intrusive pivot
pin. It turns out there is a thing called a hinge rivet. One vendor
sells a 20 pack of them for 56 cents. Quality unknown. I've never
used one and various searches including YouTube for using them
resulted in guides and tutorials on riveting hinges. Not hinge rivets.
I thought about it little bit, and something like an eyelet tool with
a fixed depth stop could probably be used/made to install them.
Perhaps as a plier or compound plier tool. I suppose a parallel
compound plier tool would be ideal. This way they could be set to
whatever thickness clearance was needed so the pivot could move
freely, but not to freely.
On further thought I figured such hinge rivets could be made on the
lathe, or possible even just out of plane tube. Even ordinary open
end pop rivets might work if removed from the mandrel. Of course if
the bag of 20 for 56¢ is any good there is no need to make them for relatively med/light weight applications like the link pivots on the
trays of a hip roof box.
Yes, Jim, I am thinking out loud to help get the job defined, but also
I am open to suggestions from anybody who has already done any part of
this type of work.
P.S. I do have a 48inch Tennsmith box brake, a smaller 30inch bench
top brake, and even a smaller magnetic mounted vise brake for mangling
sheet metal. The last sheet metal job I did was making a stove cubby surround out of stainless sheet. It turned out well enough for a
relatively simple job, and provides a heat shield for the spice
cabinets my wife laid out that come out half way along the sides of
the stove between the upper and lower cabinets. Yeah, I was not crazy
about a fuel source int eh same area as some future potential grease
fire. The stainless looks good and provides shield hopefully long
enough for a fire extinguisher to do its job. Of course no distance
or angle was quite the same, parallel, or perpendicular, so the sheet
metal shall had to be custom bent to fit...
P.P.S. I found and bought a couple cheap used hiproof boxes to use to
help figure out the geometry rather than figure it all out from
scratch. Hopefully the geometry scales well. I can always resell the boxes. Maybe fill them up with garbage tools and make somebody think
they got a deal.
On 17/06/2024 20:28, Bob La Londe wrote:
After Jim's suggestions to make my own tool box I started looking atHave you looked at piano hinge? Cut to the length you require, it can
low volume (as in physical space) methods of creating all the pivot
points. The actual hinges of the box lids may need to be actual
hinges. I'm not sure I have the ability with the tools I currently
own to make slip rolled hinges from the sheet metal. They would need
to be rolled quite small. I do have a spot welder so it might be a
good place to look into learning to use it.
My big concern is the smooth tight pivoting of the tray links. A pop
rivet might not work for a couple reasons. First is that it would
clamp the link to the tray, and the send is that even the shortest pop
rivet sticks into the space beyond a noticeable amount. I got to
wonder if there was a rivet that is designed to leave a fixed space
between the flange and the mushroom. To be used obviously as a pivot
pin instead of a corby bolt, a machine screw, or other intrusive pivot
pin. It turns out there is a thing called a hinge rivet. One vendor
sells a 20 pack of them for 56 cents. Quality unknown. I've never
used one and various searches including YouTube for using them
resulted in guides and tutorials on riveting hinges. Not hinge rivets.
I thought about it little bit, and something like an eyelet tool with
a fixed depth stop could probably be used/made to install them.
Perhaps as a plier or compound plier tool. I suppose a parallel
compound plier tool would be ideal. This way they could be set to
whatever thickness clearance was needed so the pivot could move
freely, but not to freely.
On further thought I figured such hinge rivets could be made on the
lathe, or possible even just out of plane tube. Even ordinary open
end pop rivets might work if removed from the mandrel. Of course if
the bag of 20 for 56¢ is any good there is no need to make them for
relatively med/light weight applications like the link pivots on the
trays of a hip roof box.
Yes, Jim, I am thinking out loud to help get the job defined, but also
I am open to suggestions from anybody who has already done any part of
this type of work.
P.S. I do have a 48inch Tennsmith box brake, a smaller 30inch bench
top brake, and even a smaller magnetic mounted vise brake for mangling
sheet metal. The last sheet metal job I did was making a stove cubby
surround out of stainless sheet. It turned out well enough for a
relatively simple job, and provides a heat shield for the spice
cabinets my wife laid out that come out half way along the sides of
the stove between the upper and lower cabinets. Yeah, I was not crazy
about a fuel source int eh same area as some future potential grease
fire. The stainless looks good and provides shield hopefully long
enough for a fire extinguisher to do its job. Of course no distance
or angle was quite the same, parallel, or perpendicular, so the sheet
metal shall had to be custom bent to fit...
P.P.S. I found and bought a couple cheap used hiproof boxes to use to
help figure out the geometry rather than figure it all out from
scratch. Hopefully the geometry scales well. I can always resell the
boxes. Maybe fill them up with garbage tools and make somebody think
they got a deal.
come with or without hole for mounting.
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:v4qjar$104h5$1@dont-email.me...
On 6/17/2024 4:49 PM, David Billington wrote:
Have you looked at piano hinge? Cut to the length you require, it can
come with or without hole for mounting.
Yeah I was thinking piano hinge or whatever equivalent I have laying
around left over from repairing boat compartment doors for the roof/lid hinges. What I was more thinking about was the pivot points for the connecting links between the trays.
Bob La Londe
----------------------------------
The hardest part of my suggestion may be finding short enough screws.
The brass tubing "shoulders" could be parted off quickly with a rod or
drill bit inside to retain them and quick length setting with a ruler,
as they can be a bit too long. Another possibility is undercutting the
head, there's more than enough metal on a Phillips pan head to turn a
step for sheetmetal. All the common number-size machine screws except #8
can be chucked in a fractional 5C collet. Even on my old leather-belt
lathe with a handwheel collet closer, making one cut apiece in a dozen
screws goes pretty quickly. Usually they are clearance cuts to eyeball accuracy.
I modify small screws in batches so I made cup shaped screw holders
tapped for the sizes I use, up to 1/2" which was for battery mounting
posts for a Segway project. The walls of the cup are about the length of
a 5C gripping surface and the back is bored out to cut off protruding
threads short. I cut a shallow groove near each end to make removing
them from the collet easier.
The best one, which I've made only for 3/8-16 so far, was tapped full
length, grooved on both ends for the O rings that keep it together, then sawed lengthwise in thirds to align with 5C slots or pairs of jaws on
the 6-jaw. It grabs the whole thread, not just the crest like a collet
which is less secure.
In industry I've headed rivets on a drill press equipped with a Grant Twin-Spin tool.
On 6/18/2024 11:54 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
In industry I've headed rivets on a drill press equipped with a Grant
Twin-Spin tool.
I've headed a rivet with a hammer once or twice. Once you get over the initial trepidation its not to hard.
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