• Re: When to give up on the 4x6 horz'l bandsaw?

    From Mathew Molk@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 1 17:15:04 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    Well,,,,I just ordered the second gear (Brass worm wheel) for our 32 year old Harbor freight 4x6 band saw. - (Parts arr actually easy to come by - Just not from Harbor Freight - Ie, BDI McMaster or Boston Gear)

    The original gear was cast Iron and wore out and was replaced about 20 years ago with a brass gear. Now we will replace it with an Acura wheek and worm right off eBay. 65 bucks delivered to the shop door.

    This is not a hobby saw either. We originally bought it as a dedicated machine for a job we did for Catipiller. Lots of 200-2" Long blocks from 2"x5/8 HRS Barstock (Actually it was metric 80x80x16 as I remember) We ran that job 8 to 10 times a year for
    over 3 years. - I also made a fixture to cut a 1/4x1/4 chamfer on the block but we found gang milling them in the Horz mill was faster. - Point is it;s not easy to cut the corner off a 2" block with a band saw. (So much for HF saws not cutting streight)

    We put the little saw into general service after the Toowmotor moves to Korea and eventually sold the Kalamazoo because Bimetal blades for the HF saw were WAY cheaper and after we put flood coolant on the little saw they lasted every bit as long as the
    big saw blades. .,,, (We put a hydraulic feed on it last year and the blades last even longer now/ - We cut LOTS of 2" and 1-1'2: 4140 pre hard round bar and the hydraulic doubles the life of the BiMetal 6-10 blades. (Like I say- Not a hobby saw)

    We are going to replace the bearings on the gearbox this time on GP , but the guide bearings are original and are in perfect shape.. With a micrometer stop we made fo the saw it cuts within .005 all day. (It gets run an average of 10 to 15 hours a week
    BTW.....MVP in the shop. Very little happens without it)

    So when is it time to give up on these saws? When you die, especially if you modify them with things like water and hydraulic feeds. - Within the 4x6 range thee is nothing a brand new $10,000 ChiCom saw will do that this "throw-away" saw will not do.

    As far as cutting straight, in the years we have had this saw I have found the only reason that keep it from cutting straight by looking in a mirror. When YOU get it adjusted it will cut dead nuts all day long.

    Contact me at wrew4power#gmail if you want to pick my brain

    --
    For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/when-to-give-up-on-the-4x6-horz-l-bandsaw-724439-.htm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 1 13:26:24 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    "Mathew Molk" wrote in message news:16eb0a9090d61659$3$1187009$4626d873@news.newsgroupdirect.com...

    Well,,,,I just ordered the second gear (Brass worm wheel) for our 32 year
    old Harbor freight 4x6 band saw. - (Parts arr actually easy to come by -
    Just not from Harbor Freight - Ie, BDI McMaster or Boston Gear)

    The original gear was cast Iron and wore out and was replaced about 20 years ago with a brass gear. Now we will replace it with an Acura wheek and worm right off eBay. 65 bucks delivered to the shop door.

    This is not a hobby saw either. We originally bought it as a dedicated
    machine for a job we did for Catipiller. Lots of 200-2" Long blocks from
    2"x5/8 HRS Barstock (Actually it was metric 80x80x16 as I remember) We ran
    that job 8 to 10 times a year for over 3 years. - I also made a fixture to
    cut a 1/4x1/4 chamfer on the block but we found gang milling them in the
    Horz mill was faster. - Point is it;s not easy to cut the corner off a 2"
    block with a band saw. (So much for HF saws not cutting streight)

    We put the little saw into general service after the Toowmotor moves to
    Korea and eventually sold the Kalamazoo because Bimetal blades for the HF
    saw were WAY cheaper and after we put flood coolant on the little saw they lasted every bit as long as the big saw blades. .,,, (We put a hydraulic
    feed on it last year and the blades last even longer now/ - We cut LOTS of
    2" and 1-1'2: 4140 pre hard round bar and the hydraulic doubles the life of
    the BiMetal 6-10 blades. (Like I say- Not a hobby saw)

    We are going to replace the bearings on the gearbox this time on GP , but
    the guide bearings are original and are in perfect shape.. With a
    micrometer stop we made fo the saw it cuts within .005 all day. (It gets run
    an average of 10 to 15 hours a week BTW.....MVP in the shop. Very little happens without it)

    So when is it time to give up on these saws? When you die, especially if
    you modify them with things like water and hydraulic feeds. - Within the 4x6 range thee is nothing a brand new $10,000 ChiCom saw will do that this "throw-away" saw will not do.

    As far as cutting straight, in the years we have had this saw I have found
    the only reason that keep it from cutting straight by looking in a mirror.
    When YOU get it adjusted it will cut dead nuts all day long.

    Contact me at wrew4power#gmail if you want to pick my brain

    ----------------

    What blades?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Mathew Molk on Sun May 1 11:11:46 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    On 5/1/2022 10:15 AM, Mathew Molk wrote:
    Well,,,,I just ordered the second gear (Brass worm wheel) for our 32
    year old Harbor freight 4x6 band saw. -  (Parts arr actually easy to
    come by - Just not from Harbor Freight -  Ie, BDI McMaster or Boston Gear) The original gear was cast Iron and wore out and was replaced about 20
    years ago with a brass gear.  Now we will replace it with an Acura wheek
    and worm right off eBay. 65 bucks delivered to the shop door.
    This is not a hobby saw either. We originally bought it as a dedicated machine for a job we did for Catipiller. Lots of 200-2" Long blocks from 2"x5/8 HRS Barstock (Actually it was metric 80x80x16 as I remember) We
    ran that job 8 to 10 times a year for over 3 years. -  I also made a
    fixture to cut a 1/4x1/4 chamfer on the block but we found gang milling
    them in the Horz mill was faster. - Point is it;s not easy to cut the
    corner off a 2" block with a band saw. (So much for HF saws not cutting streight)

    We put the little saw into general service after the Toowmotor moves to
    Korea and eventually sold the Kalamazoo because Bimetal blades for the
    HF saw were WAY cheaper and after we put flood coolant on the little saw
    they lasted every bit as long as the big saw blades. .,,,  (We put a hydraulic feed on it last year and the blades last even longer now/ - We
    cut LOTS of 2" and 1-1'2: 4140 pre hard round bar and the hydraulic
    doubles the life of the BiMetal 6-10 blades. (Like I say- Not a hobby saw)
    We are going to replace the bearings on the gearbox this time on GP ,
    but the guide bearings are original and are in perfect shape..  With a micrometer stop we made fo the saw it cuts within .005 all day. (It gets
    run an average of 10 to 15 hours a week BTW.....MVP in the shop. Very
    little happens without it)
    So when is it time to give up on these saws?  When you die, especially
    if you modify them with things like water and hydraulic feeds. - Within
    the 4x6 range thee is nothing a brand new $10,000 ChiCom saw will do
    that this "throw-away" saw will not do.
    As far as cutting straight,  in the years we have had this saw I have
    found the only reason that keep it from cutting straight by looking in a mirror. When YOU get it adjusted it will cut dead nuts all day long.
    Contact me at wrew4power#gmail if you want to pick my brain



    My HF 4x6 is not that old (ten years maybe), but I have had to replace
    one gear. Bought mine from Grizzly. I did upgrade to the HF 7x12
    (before the big price jump) a couple years ago, but I kept the 4x6. I
    had mounted it flush on the end of a roller table, and its really handy
    for severing round rod I use for inserts in molds. That being said the
    HF 7 x 12 is an order of magnitude better saw. This is one of the old
    tools made on the same old pattern that was definitely worth the money.
    I probably won't ever sell my 4x6 (modified to manage 4 x 8). I have
    found myself on more than one occasion using both saws at once. Its particularly satisfying when I have CNC machines running in the shop,
    I'm standing in front of the manual lathe or mill working, and I hear
    blanks drop into the bucket under the saw behind me. Clunk!

    The big deal for me on the 7x12 (and I could add it to the 4x6 if I was inclined) is the built in coolant system. Well, that and the quite good hydraulic feed for things like tube. If I needed another saw I would
    gladly buy another one of either depending on my finances.

    That being said cold saws are pretty impressive with doing copious
    amounts of steel. Better tolerances and smoother finishes. I have also considered the miter saw style bandsaw. Because you don't need to move
    the whole saw assembly when mitering long pieces. Both are pretty small envelope for their price tag. I have room 20 feet stock for now and its
    not THAT hard to move the saw.

    I will say that buying a horizontal bandsaw should be nearly every metal
    shop's second purchase. Mill or lathe (usually not both at once as a
    first tool) make money, but a horizontal band saw is a force multiplier.
    When I bought my little 4 x 6 I was so chuffed I came on this group
    and bitched everybody out for not telling me to buy one sooner. I have
    lots of other metal cutting tools (torch, plasma, grinder, chop saw,
    metal cutting circular saw, SawzAll, sabre saw, etc), but the horizontal
    band saw out works all of them in my shop. I don't mean individually.
    I mean combined.



    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 1 17:13:25 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t4mih3$sjt$1@dont-email.me...

    ...I have
    lots of other metal cutting tools (torch, plasma, grinder, chop saw,
    metal cutting circular saw, SawzAll, sabre saw, etc), but the horizontal
    band saw out works all of them in my shop. I don't mean individually.
    I mean combined.

    -----------------

    My 4x6 is also my wood cutoff saw. With a 6~10 TPI blade It has cut up to
    6x6s cleanly, without a nub in the middle. Finer pitch blades just clog.

    I modified mine to cut 8" wide too, but there's very little clearance for
    chips to fall away before the blade enters the guide rollers. I left the 8" width angle iron guide in place and milled the back edge of the original guide's base to align against it when resetting to square from an angled
    cut.

    Also I added a second pair of mounting holes in the guide base to position
    the end closer to the blade for more support when cutting short stock
    square.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun May 1 14:42:37 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    On 5/1/2022 2:13 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t4mih3$sjt$1@dont-email.me...

    ...I have
    lots of other metal cutting tools (torch, plasma, grinder, chop saw,
    metal cutting circular saw, SawzAll, sabre saw, etc), but the horizontal
    band saw out works all of them in my shop.  I don't mean individually.
    I mean combined.

    -----------------

    My 4x6 is also my wood cutoff saw. With a 6~10 TPI blade It has cut up
    to 6x6s cleanly, without a nub in the middle. Finer pitch blades just clog.

    I feel like a knob. I was trying to cut down some reclaimed guardrail
    post the other day (a few months ago) and struggled. I've actually got
    a low pitch carbide tooth blade for the 7x12. Of all the tools I have I
    never thought of that one.

    I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
    it with a wedge. Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power
    plane.

    I was banding them together to make a "stump" for my anvil.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 2 09:01:20 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t4musd$tnc$1@dont-email.me...

    I feel like a knob. I was trying to cut down some reclaimed guardrail
    post the other day (a few months ago) and struggled. I've actually got
    a low pitch carbide tooth blade for the 7x12. Of all the tools I have I
    never thought of that one.

    I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
    it with a wedge. Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power
    plane.

    I was banding them together to make a "stump" for my anvil.

    ------------------------
    I've tried the 4x6 as a chop saw to cut firewood that was smaller than a chainsaw will cut without grabbing. It works reasonably well both
    horizontally and vertically unless the branch is crooked and hard to hold straight against the pull. I also bought an inexpensive top-handle
    (one-hand) chainsaw that's probably a better and certainly faster and more portable way to cut up branches that are between lopper and two-hand
    chainsaw size. My other hand holds the branch or sawmill slab firmly against the sawbucks, which eliminates jumping and reduces grabbing, and feeds it
    for the next cut. Be very careful with one-hand 'arborist' chainsaws. So far I've used it only with the sawbuck frame guarding my off hand from the bar
    and the saw held out beside me.

    I thought an anvil should be mounted on a wood 'stump' with the top at
    knuckle height until I took the blacksmithing class. His were on welded
    angle iron frames at various heights, for various sized students, and all
    that I tried were satisfactory until my arm tired. The smiths at ag fairs
    have portable pipe / angle iron stands for their anvils and leg vises.

    To better view delicate work I remounted my anvil at waist height on a
    tripod of one 2x6 and 2 2x4 legs which makes it more stable and generally useful than it was on the oak log section. It may preferably be lower for a long session of heavy hammering but I don't draw out metal that way, and my eyes focus best at closer computer monitor distance. For me higher is better for center-punching scribe marks and flattening and shaping sheet metal with
    a light hammer. The anvil removes the temptation to misuse a machine tool as one.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 2 09:34:24 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:t4okom$e71$1@dont-email.me...

    I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
    it with a wedge. Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power
    plane.

    --------------------

    I've noticed that very experienced craftsmen are extremely reluctant to use hand tools these days. I save a contractor's PT 6x6 deck post cutoffs for cribbing and see that none were severed in the middle with a hand or pruning saw. I suppose they never learned how to keep saws sharp, and maybe don't
    want to be embarrassed by poor results.

    I did learn how in Jr High, and surprised a carpenter neighbor with
    press-fit hand cut mortices in a shed frame made from tree trunks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 2 09:40:58 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    On 5/2/2022 6:01 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t4musd$tnc$1@dont-email.me...

    I feel like a knob.  I was trying to cut down some reclaimed guardrail
    post the other day (a few months ago) and struggled.  I've actually got
    a low pitch carbide tooth blade for the 7x12.  Of all the tools I have I never thought of that one.

    I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
    it with a wedge.  Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power plane.

    I was banding them together to make a "stump" for my anvil.

    ------------------------
    I've tried the 4x6 as a chop saw to cut firewood that was smaller than a chainsaw will cut without grabbing. It works reasonably well both horizontally and vertically unless the branch is crooked and hard to
    hold straight against the pull.

    I have used my vertical (wood only) bandsaw to break down mesquite for
    cooking pieces. I like shorter chunks in the BBQ grill. I can burn
    them down to just the right coals for grilling much faster. Its a
    smallish Rigid from Home Depot with a Wood Slicer resaw blade. The Wood
    Slicer is really an impressive blade. I still split larger pieces with
    a wedge and a sledgehammer.


    I also bought an inexpensive top-handle
    (one-hand) chainsaw that's probably a better and certainly faster and
    more portable way to cut up branches that are between lopper and
    two-hand chainsaw size.

    I have been using a cheap electric chainsaw for pruning trees for years.
    I've considered a gas powered, but my experience with that size class
    motor is as often as I use it I always need to work on it first. With
    the electric I fill the chain oil and plug it in. When trimming the
    trees out front 90-110 yards from the house I just roll out my emergency
    backup generator. I run an electric pole saw the same way.



    My other hand holds the branch or sawmill slab
    firmly against the sawbucks, which eliminates jumping and reduces
    grabbing, and feeds it for the next cut. Be very careful with one-hand 'arborist' chainsaws. So far I've used it only with the sawbuck frame guarding my off hand from the bar and the saw held out beside me.

    I thought an anvil should be mounted on a wood 'stump' with the top at knuckle height until I took the blacksmithing class. His were on welded
    angle iron frames at various heights, for various sized students, and
    all that I tried were satisfactory until my arm tired. The smiths at ag
    fairs have portable pipe / angle iron stands for their anvils and leg
    vises.

    Anvil height is somewhat dependent on the knuckle height of the
    blacksmith and the type of work being done. Light detail work is often
    done at a much higher height than heavy work. The type of stand is up
    for grabs and based on the materials available and the whim of the
    person setting up the forge. I image in most of the midwest log
    sections are used because they are nearly free. Any firewood seller has
    logs from which a section may be cut. I used recycled guard rail post
    because they were the cheapest material I had at hand.


    To better view delicate work I remounted my anvil at waist height on a
    tripod of one 2x6 and 2 2x4 legs which makes it more stable and
    generally useful than it was on the oak log section. It may preferably
    be lower for a long session of heavy hammering but I don't draw out
    metal that way, and my eyes focus best at closer computer monitor
    distance. For me higher is better for center-punching scribe marks and flattening and shaping sheet metal with a light hammer. The anvil
    removes the temptation to misuse a machine tool as one.

    My son took a blacksmithing class in college as an elective. Of course
    he made some punches and chisels from spring steel so those are handy in
    our forge... basically the open back shop door and the end of the
    welding table for the propane furnace to rest on.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 2 09:56:34 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    On 5/2/2022 6:34 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Jim Wilkins"  wrote in message news:t4okom$e71$1@dont-email.me...

    I wound up making multiple partial cuts on the big RAS and then breaking
    it with a wedge.  Then I had to clean it up and flatten it with a power plane.

    --------------------

    I've noticed that very experienced craftsmen are extremely reluctant to
    use hand tools these days.

    Remember my lecture about time? Time is the most ireplacable commodity
    for anybody. Not just me. I learned very quickly that a $300 electric
    drill or an $800 rotary hammer saved me money every single time I used
    them. I've used a bit brace, and I am fairly capable with a star drill
    and a hammer, but for the most part I can't afford to take that much
    time to do any job.

    I save a contractor's PT 6x6 deck post
    cutoffs for cribbing and see that none were severed in the middle with a
    hand or pruning saw. I suppose they never learned how to keep saws
    sharp, and maybe don't want to be embarrassed by poor results.

    Sharpening saws is still a thing. There is a still a sharpening service
    here in Yuma. I do not use them since I can sharpen pretty much
    anything I need sharpened except end mills. Even then I save old end
    mills in both HSS and carbide to make other tools. I'm starting to get
    a collection of special purpose D-Bits.


    I did learn how in Jr High, and surprised a carpenter neighbor with
    press-fit hand cut mortices in a shed frame made from tree trunks.

    Often a home shop craftsman or or hobbyist will take greater care and
    build nicer wood projects than a professional due to time constraints.
    You can make all the arguments you want about quality and pride in
    workmanship, but a person who does it for a living MUST be able to beat
    mass produced wood (paper) products without charging so much as to make
    it unattainable to their customer base. They can charge more, but they
    can't charge hand cut dovetail more and still make a decent wage no
    matter how good they are. I don't do this for a living and I am not a
    wood worker except when SWMBO says she needs something. I have routers
    and a dovetail jig. Three drawers and I have saved enough time to pay
    for all of it. Your neighbor was likely impressed with your work
    because it was good, but that does not mean he couldn't do it. More
    likely he just doesn't have the time to do that.

    If you want to be a entertained watch Rex Figures it Out on YouTube.
    He's a little over the top but most pro YouTubers are. He used to be a professional wood worker, and has transistion to being a (mostly) hand
    tool wood worker and professional YouTuber.




    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 2 14:18:49 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t4p1is$1l2q$1@gioia.aioe.org...

    On 5/2/2022 6:01 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    I also bought an inexpensive top-handle
    (one-hand) chainsaw that's probably a better and certainly faster and more portable way to cut up branches that are between lopper and two-hand
    chainsaw size.

    I have been using a cheap electric chainsaw for pruning trees for years.
    I've considered a gas powered, but my experience with that size class
    motor is as often as I use it I always need to work on it first. With
    the electric I fill the chain oil and plug it in. When trimming the
    trees out front 90-110 yards from the house I just roll out my emergency
    backup generator. I run an electric pole saw the same way.

    -----------------

    My gas powered Husqvarna and Stihl have been generally though not completely reliable, at least as good as my several electrics which have less durable plastic housings and poorer bar oil feed. The problem with all of them when cutting small branches on sawbucks X=X X=X is not having a free hand to
    hold down the branch when it's smaller than the gap between cutters and
    whips around. I cut at about waist height to spare my back and avoid dulling the chain on rocks so I can't safely step on the branch. That portable
    hosting gear I've mentioned is to lift tree trunks to rest on the folding sawbucks and be cut into stove lengths.

    The ideal solution might be a circular cordwood saw with a pivoting frame to hold the branches. Lacking one or the space to store it, the top handle arborist saw is a reasonable answer that leaves the other hand free to
    advance and clamp down the branch. It's probably too dangerous for general
    use.

    My property is a mature oak forest up to and around the house so I have to dispose of dead wood from twigs to stumps somehow, and cutting as much as possible into lumber or the firewood that's my main heat source is the best answer for me. I consider processing wood to be my health club. Saturday a mystic/seer/fortune teller at a flea market guessed my age 15 years too
    young.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 2 15:03:22 2022
    On Mon, 2 May 2022 14:18:49 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    The problem with all of them when
    cutting small branches on sawbucks X=X X=X is not having a free hand to
    hold down the branch when it's smaller than the gap between cutters and
    whips around.
    <snip>

    I try looking through patents for old solutions or ideas to make
    something with problems like that...

    Several old patents that address this and one newer that is
    both simple and clever:

    https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DEP2694255A1

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US654134A/en

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US628015A/en

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US592654A/en

    I rather like that first, newer patent idea :)

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 2 16:11:47 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t4p2g4$4ch$1@gioia.aioe.org...

    On 5/2/2022 6:34 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    I've noticed that very experienced craftsmen are extremely reluctant to
    use hand tools these days.

    Remember my lecture about time? Time is the most ireplacable commodity
    for anybody. Not just me. I learned very quickly that a $300 electric
    drill or an $800 rotary hammer saved me money every single time I used
    them. I've used a bit brace, and I am fairly capable with a star drill
    and a hammer, but for the most part I can't afford to take that much
    time to do any job.

    ------------------------
    Time mattered when I was on the clock, now that I'm retired energy has
    become the limiting resource. I no longer have as much as when I was only
    70.

    I was thinking of a recent job where the mentioned homeowner / retired carpenter needed to cut a section of plastic gutter and spent at least half
    an hour finding, digging out and setting up his radial arm saw and the other stuff he needed, which had become separated during other jobs. He works out
    of his truck and doesn't have a home shop set up, like me he has to move woodworking power tools out into the driveway and pack them away afterwards, which costs time. The next day I cut another piece in ~10 minutes discuss>measure>argue>cut>install with a fine tooth hand saw, splitting the pencil line because he bet me I couldn't cut it square. It was a difficult installation because we couldn't find all the parts in any one style at two
    Big Boxes and one local store and had to adapt rectangular to square.

    I use power tools as much as I can but I don't have any that can cut a close-fitting mortice notch for a slightly curved 2x8 in the side of upright tree trunks that were part of an existing shed. For that I chain-sawed flats
    on the trunks, clamped the 2x8 in place, clamped 2x4 blocks snugly against
    it above and below, removed the 2x8 and guided the hand saw against the
    blocks, thus putting the saw kerf within the beam mortice. Then I hogged out the rest with the chainsaw and chiseled the inner side parallel to the other upright by eye. This was to stiffen a roof that had sagged under the
    previous year's snow load.

    Much of the work on those pole sheds was done out in the woods with the logs
    on sawbucks. I learned to cut a respectably straight, level and smooth flat
    on a log with a chainsaw freehand.

    The contractor neighbor loaned/gave? me a rock drill and 1-1/4 bit because
    it had needed the cord replaced and he bought another drill instead to get
    the job done on time, like you said. It's SO much faster than a star drill
    for splitting off inconvenient rocks.

    The top one sharpens the end flutes of end mills nicely. https://www.kbctools.com/catsearch/146/end-mill-grinding-fixtures
    The lowest one does side flutes but it's fussy to adjust and difficult to
    use, and of course they become undersized, better for roughing than
    finishing.

    For my low-budget hobby use I sharpen only the end flutes and rough out
    steel by plunging down, which doesn't dull the sides. The horizontal feed between plunges is less than the radius so I don't have to keep them center-cutting.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 2 16:20:59 2022
    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:t4p9tq$led$1@dont-email.me...

    On Mon, 2 May 2022 14:18:49 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    The problem with all of them when
    cutting small branches on sawbucks X=X X=X is not having a free hand to
    hold down the branch when it's smaller than the gap between cutters and
    whips around.
    <snip>

    I try looking through patents for old solutions or ideas to make
    something with problems like that...

    Several old patents that address this and one newer that is
    both simple and clever:

    https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DEP2694255A1

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US654134A/en

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US628015A/en

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US592654A/en

    I rather like that first, newer patent idea :)

    ---------------------

    Thanks. I tried a few treadle clamp ideas but they didn't fit into the construction of the folding sawbucks that have to fit compactly on top of
    the logs in the trailer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon May 2 16:16:22 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    On 5/2/2022 1:11 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    The top one sharpens the end flutes of end mills nicely. https://www.kbctools.com/catsearch/146/end-mill-grinding-fixtures
    The lowest one does side flutes but it's fussy to adjust and difficult
    to use, and of course they become undersized, better for roughing than finishing.

    For my low-budget hobby use I sharpen only the end flutes and rough out
    steel by plunging down, which doesn't dull the sides. The horizontal
    feed between plunges is less than the radius so I don't have to keep
    them center-cutting.


    I guess I could say I don't really have the skills to sharpen end mills.
    I expect if I setup a finger tracer for the Tool and Cutter grinder I
    could sharpen the flutes of some end mills. Maybe the ends on 2 flute
    and maybe some four flute. I do mostly CNC work where I am running by
    dead reckoning and I have to count on the machine to be close enough. I
    have measured and setup jobs using regrinds, but only for one off
    special jobs where I needed an angle or a corner radius that was an
    oddball and the only one that I found that was cost effective was a
    regrind. Mostly for efficient time management I use new end mills and
    when specs fail it goes in the bucket.

    When I first got the T&C grinder I bought a diamond cutoff wheel for it.
    This might be right up your alley for being frugal. Most of the time
    when an end mill fails its just the tips/corners. I can cut that off
    while turning the mill and approaching the wheel at a slight angle.
    This gives me a nearly new side mill with a shorter flute, and there is
    a slight hollow grind on the end to eliminate drag. You can't plunge
    with it, but you can get some more life out of a mill (its no longer an
    end mill) that would otherwise just go in the scrap carbide bucket.
    When I chowder that I save what's left to make a D-bit cutter of some
    kind.


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    https://www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue May 3 10:11:03 2022
    XPost: alt.machines.cnc, alt.home.repair

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t4poo7$1q0$1@dont-email.me...

    On 5/2/2022 1:11 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    The top one sharpens the end flutes of end mills nicely. https://www.kbctools.com/catsearch/146/end-mill-grinding-fixtures
    The lowest one does side flutes but it's fussy to adjust and difficult to use, and of course they become undersized, better for roughing than finishing.

    For my low-budget hobby use I sharpen only the end flutes and rough out
    steel by plunging down, which doesn't dull the sides. The horizontal feed between plunges is less than the radius so I don't have to keep them center-cutting.


    I guess I could say I don't really have the skills to sharpen end mills.
    I expect if I setup a finger tracer for the Tool and Cutter grinder I
    could sharpen the flutes of some end mills. Maybe the ends on 2 flute
    and maybe some four flute. I do mostly CNC work where I am running by
    dead reckoning and I have to count on the machine to be close enough. I
    have measured and setup jobs using regrinds, but only for one off
    special jobs where I needed an angle or a corner radius that was an
    oddball and the only one that I found that was cost effective was a
    regrind. Mostly for efficient time management I use new end mills and
    when specs fail it goes in the bucket.

    When I first got the T&C grinder I bought a diamond cutoff wheel for it.
    This might be right up your alley for being frugal. Most of the time
    when an end mill fails its just the tips/corners. I can cut that off
    while turning the mill and approaching the wheel at a slight angle.
    This gives me a nearly new side mill with a shorter flute, and there is
    a slight hollow grind on the end to eliminate drag. You can't plunge
    with it, but you can get some more life out of a mill (its no longer an
    end mill) that would otherwise just go in the scrap carbide bucket.
    When I chowder that I save what's left to make a D-bit cutter of some
    kind.

    ----------------------------

    I do have diamond grinding wheels, and if my machines were tight and rigid enough to not chip carbide I'd use them.

    Surface-grinding the end flutes is really very simple, the fixture sets the relief angles and indexes in 15 degree steps (360/24) between flutes,
    there's no finger stop. The base can be squared by eye on the mag chuck, the back rake isn't very sensitive to slight misalignment. You do have to
    carefully adjust a 4-flute endmill's angular position in the collet and the fixture's on the mag chuck so you can grind arbitrarily close to center
    without hitting the next flute. They are easier if you grind away two
    opposite flutes near the center and center-cut with only the other two. A
    pilot hole lets an imperfect center grind plunge cut and advancing less than the radius lets it nibble.

    My mill advances 0.100" per turn so with a half inch end mill I advance two turns and downfeed with the drilling handle. This saves the side flutes for light finishing.

    I made a collet closer nut with a half inch center hole to sharpen stub
    length S&D bits with it, using the 30 degree back clearance setting to give
    a point angle of 120 degrees.

    The 30 degree setting can grind a sharp beveled cutting edge on the dull
    tips of end mills. I use it for trial skim cuts on surfaces that might be hardened such as cast iron or chrome plated rod, since I do a lot of salvage and repair of old metal instead of production with new stock like you.

    I've bought very cheap high quality dull used endmills in a variety of diameters and lengths and sharpen them as needed if a common size won't do.

    I can't easily trade time for money like you because I'm in a residential instead of rural zone, but instead I can save by spending 5~10% of the new
    cost on used equipment I need, like a snow blower, and fixing it. I used my time to minimize living expenses, to $0 for heat and $40 a month for electricity, and invested in the high-paying areas the Left totally depends
    on but loves to hate. Practice what you preach.

    We were discussing that life choice in auto shop class last night. Some
    former students repair and sell free broken lawnmowers etc. I tried that
    with motorcycles but I'm too much of a perfectionist to make money at it. Learned a lot, though. The freedom, lack of stress, self-reliance and treasure-hunting fun of it can be attractive and satisfying.

    To me creating advanced electronics was too. I would have worked on the
    space projects for free. Machining was necessary at microwave frequencies
    where the enclosure is not only shielding but part of the circuit's ground plane or a resonant cavity. We were dealing with the speed of light over fractions of an inch.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)