• Compartmentalization Required

    From Bill B@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 21 06:57:57 2023
    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who contributed so much to so many.

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  • From Mark D.@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Nov 21 15:16:17 2023
    On Nov 21, 2023 at 8:57:57 AM CST, "Bill B" <bbug2@optonline.net> wrote:

    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who
    contributed so much to so many.

    Many great artists in all fields, at all times, have been deeply flawed in their pesonal lives. The current craze for judging artists by their sins is simply Puritanism run amok. That this formally rightwing notion has also
    become leftwing in recent times makes matters worse, expecially for those of
    us who remember Ed Sullivan cutting Elvis off at the waist so we couldn't see his "lewd" pelvis-shaking.

    --md

    remove "xx" for email

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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to DianeE on Tue Nov 21 08:08:26 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 10:25:28 AM UTC-5, DianeE wrote:
    On 11/21/2023 9:57 AM, Bill B wrote:
    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who contributed so much to so many.



    ------------
    You're right, but I'm still sorry I read that book.

    I'm not, though I almost threw it out on completion. :-)

    I enjoyed the background musical info, learning that he did not smoke or do drugs, his friendships with Carl Parkins, Bobby Charles and Buddy Holly, and his admiration of the Everly Brothers, including his regret that he did not write "Wake Up Little
    Susie." I was happy that "You Never Can Tell" got the praise I think it deserved and disappointed that he discussed "Promised Land" in detail without mentioning it was a note for note copy of "Wabash Cannonball."

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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Nov 21 10:25:24 2023
    On 11/21/2023 9:57 AM, Bill B wrote:
    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who contributed so much to so many.



    ------------
    You're right, but I'm still sorry I read that book.

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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Nov 21 08:38:59 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:08:27 AM UTC-5, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 10:25:28 AM UTC-5, DianeE wrote:
    On 11/21/2023 9:57 AM, Bill B wrote:
    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who contributed so much to so many.



    ------------
    You're right, but I'm still sorry I read that book.
    I'm not, though I almost threw it out on completion. :-)

    and disappointed that he discussed "Promised Land" in detail without mentioning it was a note for note copy of "Wabash Cannonball."

    Not a surprise. He had gotten away with plagiarism and did not want to wake anybody up to that fact less he be sued by that copyright owner. Did he have anything to say about stealing "My Ding-A-Ling?"

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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Bruce on Tue Nov 21 11:26:10 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:39:01 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:08:27 AM UTC-5, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 10:25:28 AM UTC-5, DianeE wrote:
    On 11/21/2023 9:57 AM, Bill B wrote:
    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who contributed so much to so many.



    ------------
    You're right, but I'm still sorry I read that book.
    I'm not, though I almost threw it out on completion. :-)

    and disappointed that he discussed "Promised Land" in detail without mentioning it was a note for note copy of "Wabash Cannonball."
    Not a surprise. He had gotten away with plagiarism and did not want to wake anybody up to that fact less he be sued by that copyright owner. Did he have anything to say about stealing "My Ding-A-Ling?"

    I was talking about the author of the book. He covered "My Ding A Ling" extensively (he liked it too) and included Chuck's comments. He said Dave Bartolomew sent a fax to Berry asking for money and Berry refused to pay anything, saying "No, you didn't
    invent it. Fact is, just pull your pants down, take a look, that's your ding-a-ling. You don't own it 'cause a lot of us got one." An involved attorney said "there was nothing in common between their versions, other than the words my ding-a-ling." An
    exaggeration, but partially accurate.

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  • From Roger Ford@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Nov 21 11:38:58 2023
    On Tuesday, 21 November 2023 at 16:08:27 UTC, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 10:25:28 AM UTC-5, DianeE wrote:
    On 11/21/2023 9:57 AM, Bill B wrote:
    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who contributed so much to so many.



    ------------
    You're right, but I'm still sorry I read that book.
    I'm not, though I almost threw it out on completion. :-)

    I enjoyed the background musical info, learning that he did not smoke or do drugs, his friendships with Carl Parkins, Bobby Charles and Buddy Holly, and his admiration of the Everly Brothers, including his regret that he did not write "Wake Up Little
    Susie." I was happy that "You Never Can Tell" got the praise I think it deserved and disappointed that he discussed "Promised Land" in detail without mentioning it was a note for note copy of "Wabash Cannonball."

    Again.I don't hear that "note for note copying" between "Promised Land" and "Wabash Cannonball"

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  • From Roger Ford@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Nov 21 11:40:38 2023
    On Tuesday, 21 November 2023 at 19:26:12 UTC, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:39:01 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:08:27 AM UTC-5, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 10:25:28 AM UTC-5, DianeE wrote:
    On 11/21/2023 9:57 AM, Bill B wrote:
    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who contributed so much to so many.



    ------------
    You're right, but I'm still sorry I read that book.
    I'm not, though I almost threw it out on completion. :-)

    and disappointed that he discussed "Promised Land" in detail without mentioning it was a note for note copy of "Wabash Cannonball."
    Not a surprise. He had gotten away with plagiarism and did not want to wake anybody up to that fact less he be sued by that copyright owner. Did he have anything to say about stealing "My Ding-A-Ling?"
    I was talking about the author of the book. He covered "My Ding A Ling" extensively (he liked it too) and included Chuck's comments. He said Dave Bartolomew sent a fax to Berry asking for money and Berry refused to pay anything, saying "No, you didn't
    invent it. Fact is, just pull your pants down, take a look, that's your ding-a-ling. You don't own it 'cause a lot of us got one." An involved attorney said "there was nothing in common between their versions, other than the words my ding-a-ling." An
    exaggeration, but partially accurate.

    But I think we all knew Chuck's "Ding A Ling" would never stand up in court

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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Roger Ford on Tue Nov 21 12:13:58 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 2:40:40 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:

    But I think we all knew Chuck's "Ding A Ling" would never stand up in court

    It would have if there was a cute white blond present.

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  • From Steve Mc@21:1/5 to Roger Ford on Tue Nov 21 11:49:17 2023
    On 11/21/2023 11:40 AM, Roger Ford wrote:
    On Tuesday, 21 November 2023 at 19:26:12 UTC, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:39:01 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:08:27 AM UTC-5, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 10:25:28 AM UTC-5, DianeE wrote:
    On 11/21/2023 9:57 AM, Bill B wrote:
    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who contributed so much to so many.



    ------------
    You're right, but I'm still sorry I read that book.
    I'm not, though I almost threw it out on completion. :-)

    and disappointed that he discussed "Promised Land" in detail without mentioning it was a note for note copy of "Wabash Cannonball."
    Not a surprise. He had gotten away with plagiarism and did not want to wake anybody up to that fact less he be sued by that copyright owner. Did he have anything to say about stealing "My Ding-A-Ling?"
    I was talking about the author of the book. He covered "My Ding A Ling" extensively (he liked it too) and included Chuck's comments. He said Dave Bartolomew sent a fax to Berry asking for money and Berry refused to pay anything, saying "No, you didn't
    invent it. Fact is, just pull your pants down, take a look, that's your ding-a-ling. You don't own it 'cause a lot of us got one." An involved attorney said "there was nothing in common between their versions, other than the words my ding-a-ling." An
    exaggeration, but partially accurate.
    But I think we all knew Chuck's "Ding A Ling" would never stand up in court

    LOL !!!

    --
    Steve Mc

    DNA to SBC to respond

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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Roger Ford on Tue Nov 21 12:22:04 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 2:39:00 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:

    Again.I don't hear that "note for note copying" between "Promised Land" and "Wabash Cannonball"

    I reported here before that Wiki had an article in which were listed all the versions of "Wabash Cannonball," about fifty of them. Only one was named differently, "Promised Land" by Chuck Berry.
    Maybe note for note is overstating the resemblance.

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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Nov 21 13:29:29 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-5, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:39:01 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:08:27 AM UTC-5, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 10:25:28 AM UTC-5, DianeE wrote:
    On 11/21/2023 9:57 AM, Bill B wrote:
    Just finished R.J.Smith's "Chuck Berry: An American Life," and the Subject of this thread says it all.

    A flawed individual, sometimes a revolting one, but also a gifted musician who contributed so much to so many.



    ------------
    You're right, but I'm still sorry I read that book.
    I'm not, though I almost threw it out on completion. :-)

    and disappointed that he discussed "Promised Land" in detail without mentioning it was a note for note copy of "Wabash Cannonball."
    Not a surprise. He had gotten away with plagiarism and did not want to wake anybody up to that fact less he be sued by that copyright owner. Did he have anything to say about stealing "My Ding-A-Ling?"
    I was talking about the author of the book. He covered "My Ding A Ling" extensively (he liked it too) and included Chuck's comments. He said Dave Bartholomew sent a fax to Berry asking for money and Berry refused to pay anything, saying "No, you didn't
    invent it. Fact is, just pull your pants down, take a look, that's your ding-a-ling. You don't own it 'cause a lot of us got one." An involved attorney said "there was nothing in common between their versions, other than the words my ding-a-ling."

    An exaggeration, but partially accurate.

    I guess 1% would qualify as "partially." The only thing that changed is most of the lyrics aside from the the title that is in much of the song over and over.

    Gee, I wonder which side of the case the "involved attorney" was on.

    The melody and the way each line is delivered are clearly the same. Chuck would have gotten his ass kicked in court if Dave had sued.

    DAVE
    There's a little girl, her name is Sing (9 syllables)
    She like to play with My Ding-A-Ling (9 syllables)
    My Ding-A-Ling is the cutest thing (9 syllables)
    When Sing plays with My-Ding-A-Ling (9 syllables)

    CHUCK
    When I was a little bitty boy (9 syllables)
    My grandmother bought me a cute little toy (11 syllables)
    Silver bells hanging on a string (8 syllables)
    She told me it was My Ding-A-Ling-A-Ling (11 syllables)

    Chuck made the second, third and 4th verses fit by cramming 2 syllables each into one note, or stretching one syllable longer, in line 3.

    "Mother" and "Little" are each just one note for line 2

    "String" is stretched out some to make up for the missing syllable in line 3.

    "Told me" is just one note, and "A-Ling-A-Ling" is just one note.

    Jim would know better, but I think if you're gonna take an existing composition and write different words for it and publish it as a recording, you must get the permission of the copyright holder and/or the songwriter. Chuck had some balls to just list
    himself as the only writer of his version and to publish it again for "Isalee Music." It had already been published in 1952 by Dave's Publishing Company, "Bartho."

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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Nov 21 17:38:16 2023
    On 11/21/2023 3:22 PM, Bill B wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 2:39:00 PM UTC-5, Roger Ford wrote:

    Again.I don't hear that "note for note copying" between "Promised Land" and "Wabash Cannonball"

    I reported here before that Wiki had an article in which were listed all the versions of "Wabash Cannonball," about fifty of them. Only one was named differently, "Promised Land" by Chuck Berry.
    Maybe note for note is overstating the resemblance.

    -------
    You bet it is.

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  • From DianeE@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 21 17:36:13 2023
    On 11/21/2023 11:08 AM, Bill B wrote:
    ... I was happy that "You Never Can Tell" got the praise I think it
    deserved and disappointed that he discussed "Promised Land" in detail
    without mentioning it was a note for note copy of "Wabash Cannonball." -----------
    It's *not* a note for note copy of "Wabash Cannonball." It's similar,
    but far from identical.

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  • From Dean F.@21:1/5 to Bill B on Tue Nov 21 18:05:08 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:08:27 AM UTC-5, Bill B wrote:

    I enjoyed the background musical info, learning that he did not smoke or do drugs,

    Chuck Berry was a lifelong cigarette smoker. I specifically remember this quote from his autobiography: "May I enjoy another 30 years of smoking pleasure."

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  • From Bruce@21:1/5 to Dean F. on Tue Nov 21 19:03:37 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 9:05:10 PM UTC-5, Dean F. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:08:27 AM UTC-5, Bill B wrote:

    I enjoyed the background musical info, learning that he did not smoke or do drugs,

    Chuck Berry was a lifelong cigarette smoker. I specifically remember this quote from his autobiography: "May I enjoy another 30 years of smoking pleasure."

    I think it was that he didn't DRINK or do drugs.

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  • From Bill B@21:1/5 to Bruce on Wed Nov 22 02:54:05 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 10:03:38 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 9:05:10 PM UTC-5, Dean F. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 11:08:27 AM UTC-5, Bill B wrote:

    I enjoyed the background musical info, learning that he did not smoke or do drugs,

    Chuck Berry was a lifelong cigarette smoker. I specifically remember this quote from his autobiography: "May I enjoy another 30 years of smoking pleasure."
    I think it was that he didn't DRINK or do drugs.

    It was. Just one of those senior moments. I caught myself making the same mistake once or twice in my mind and corrected it in time, but this one slipped through.

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