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  • Piano Rolls - Rachmaninoff - A Window in Time - volumes 1 & 2

    From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 30 20:02:40 2023
    Dan recently offered a series of selections from piano rolls, and rather than hijack his post I thought I would just start a new one...

    Here are (2) albums of Rachmaninoff himself...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKbTbkgaF00&list=PLa1rC97wRkZikea41RtWSrpYwoxW7N3f-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbqPiSbe1_Y&list=PLB-I9OuM1xrscQiKxMye-v8GkuCtkTdJr&index=14

    ... as reproduced on a Bösendorfer 290SE Reproducing Piano... whatever that is. These modern recordings are now over 2 decades old but I am always just amazed by the skill of Rachmaninoff. I have enjoyed these over and over again. I *think* that the
    original piano rolls date from the 1919-1922 era. but I really don't know for sure.

    Enjoy!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Thu Mar 30 21:01:28 2023
    On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 8:42:12 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 8:02:43 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    Dan recently offered a series of selections from piano rolls, and rather than hijack his post I thought I would just start a new one...

    Here are (2) albums of Rachmaninoff himself...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKbTbkgaF00&list=PLa1rC97wRkZikea41RtWSrpYwoxW7N3f-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbqPiSbe1_Y&list=PLB-I9OuM1xrscQiKxMye-v8GkuCtkTdJr&index=14

    ... as reproduced on a Bösendorfer 290SE
    Reproducing Piano... whatever that is. These
    modern recordings are now over 2 decades
    old but I am always just amazed by the skill
    of Rachmaninoff. I have enjoyed these over
    and over again. I *think* that the original
    piano rolls date from the 1919-1922 era.
    but I really don't know for sure.
    Even better than the Wayne Stahnke
    roll reproductions are Zenph Studios'
    "re-performances" that are derived
    from the same piano rolls used by
    Wayne Stahnke and Telarc.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lVvx-w8QTVYBhgXW1NF5KwvxfglFtSoGQ

    Enjoy!

    OK, I will give these a serious listen and am looking forward to yet another level of Rachmaninoff himself... but I really am perfectly happy with the "Window of Time" albums that I have been enjoying for a very long time now.

    I'll let you know what i think!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Thu Mar 30 20:42:09 2023
    On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 8:02:43 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    Dan recently offered a series of selections from piano rolls, and rather than hijack his post I thought I would just start a new one...

    Here are (2) albums of Rachmaninoff himself...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKbTbkgaF00&list=PLa1rC97wRkZikea41RtWSrpYwoxW7N3f-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbqPiSbe1_Y&list=PLB-I9OuM1xrscQiKxMye-v8GkuCtkTdJr&index=14

    ... as reproduced on a Bösendorfer 290SE
    Reproducing Piano... whatever that is. These
    modern recordings are now over 2 decades
    old but I am always just amazed by the skill
    of Rachmaninoff. I have enjoyed these over
    and over again. I *think* that the original
    piano rolls date from the 1919-1922 era.
    but I really don't know for sure.

    Even better than the Wayne Stahnke
    roll reproductions are Zenph Studios'
    "re-performances" that are derived
    from the same piano rolls used by
    Wayne Stahnke and Telarc.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lVvx-w8QTVYBhgXW1NF5KwvxfglFtSoGQ

    Enjoy!

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Thu Mar 30 20:28:37 2023
    On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 8:02:43 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:

    as reproduced on a Bösendorfer 290SE
    Reproducing Piano... whatever that is.

    A "reproducing piano" is a piano (usually
    a grand piano) equipped with actuators
    that move the keys and the pedals. Such
    actuators can be driven my mechanical,
    pneumatic, electrical or electronic means.

    Some are built directly into the instrument
    by the factory, while others can be added
    externally. Early 1900s systems included
    both.

    More recent modern systems are typically
    computer based -- they include Yamaha's
    Disklavier, Bosendorfer's Reproducing
    Pianos, as well as recent reconstructions
    of classical piano roll players like Aeolian
    or Welte Mignon that replace the original
    pneumatic or mechanical actuators with
    quieter more efficient elctro- magnetic
    actuators.

    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_roll
    for a survey.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Paul Alsing on Thu Mar 30 21:10:56 2023
    On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 9:01:31 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 8:42:12 PM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 8:02:43 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
    Dan recently offered a series of selections from piano rolls, and rather than hijack his post I thought I would just start a new one...

    Here are (2) albums of Rachmaninoff himself...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKbTbkgaF00&list=PLa1rC97wRkZikea41RtWSrpYwoxW7N3f-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbqPiSbe1_Y&list=PLB-I9OuM1xrscQiKxMye-v8GkuCtkTdJr&index=14

    ... as reproduced on a Bösendorfer 290SE
    Reproducing Piano... whatever that is. These
    modern recordings are now over 2 decades
    old but I am always just amazed by the skill
    of Rachmaninoff. I have enjoyed these over
    and over again. I *think* that the original
    piano rolls date from the 1919-1922 era.
    but I really don't know for sure.
    Even better than the Wayne Stahnke
    roll reproductions are Zenph Studios'
    "re-performances" that are derived
    from the same piano rolls used by
    Wayne Stahnke and Telarc.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lVvx-w8QTVYBhgXW1NF5KwvxfglFtSoGQ

    OK, I will give these a serious listen and
    am looking forward to yet another level of
    Rachmaninoff himself... but I really am
    perfectly happy with the "Window of Time"
    albums that I have been enjoying for a very
    long time now.

    Same recordings (more or less) even if not
    exactly matched roll for roll. The Zenph
    process is newer than Wayne Stahnke's
    with more computer power in the loop.
    At the end of the day, one is probably
    going to prefer one or the other based
    on the sound of the instrument used
    for replay rather than anything else.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HT@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 31 01:59:55 2023
    Op vrijdag 31 maart 2023 om 05:02:43 UTC+2 schreef Paul Alsing:
    Dan recently offered a series of selections from piano rolls, and rather than hijack his post I thought I would just start a new one...

    Here are (2) albums of Rachmaninoff himself...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKbTbkgaF00&list=PLa1rC97wRkZikea41RtWSrpYwoxW7N3f-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbqPiSbe1_Y&list=PLB-I9OuM1xrscQiKxMye-v8GkuCtkTdJr&index=14

    ... as reproduced on a Bösendorfer 290SE Reproducing Piano... whatever that is. These modern recordings are now over 2 decades old but I am always just amazed by the skill of Rachmaninoff. I have enjoyed these over and over again. I *think* that the
    original piano rolls date from the 1919-1922 era. but I really don't know for sure.

    Enjoy!

    They give a clear picture of how Rachmaninoff played and sound exactly like the Naxos remasterings. What strikes me in all his recordings is a lack of personality. His playing is near-perfect - and that is it.

    Henk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 31 03:14:47 2023
    Here's Rachmaninov performing "live" on an Ampico piano roll.

    https://youtu.be/8oc2-Ku5UAE

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Fri Mar 31 03:24:01 2023
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 3:14:50 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    Here's Rachmaninov performing "live" on an Ampico piano roll.

    https://youtu.be/8oc2-Ku5UAE

    https://youtu.be/w-XrDw04P2M

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AB@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Fri Mar 31 10:42:43 2023
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 6:24:04 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 3:14:50 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    Here's Rachmaninov performing "live" on an Ampico piano roll.

    https://youtu.be/8oc2-Ku5UAE
    https://youtu.be/w-XrDw04P2M

    piano rolls are USELESS, not legitimate note perfect of course,
    heard this years ago did not take long to realize they sound nechanical

    AB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Alsing@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 31 13:01:05 2023
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 10:42:46 AM UTC-7, AB wrote:

    piano rolls are USELESS, not legitimate note perfect of course,
    heard this years ago did not take long to realize they sound nechanical

    At age 5 or 6 it took me perhpas 5 minutes to realize that pianos are mechanical, even when human-powered...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank Berger@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 31 15:55:54 2023
    On 3/31/2023 1:42 PM, AB wrote:
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 6:24:04 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 3:14:50 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    Here's Rachmaninov performing "live" on an Ampico piano roll.

    https://youtu.be/8oc2-Ku5UAE
    https://youtu.be/w-XrDw04P2M

    piano rolls are USELESS, not legitimate note perfect of course,
    heard this years ago did not take long to realize they sound nechanical

    AB


    Has anyone made a piano roll from a modern performance and compared them? Seems like if you did a bunch of these, you might be able to generalize about the old piano rolls, not that you could reverse engineer them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Frank Berger on Fri Mar 31 13:58:34 2023
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 12:56:07 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
    On 3/31/2023 1:42 PM, AB wrote:
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 6:24:04 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 3:14:50 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    Here's Rachmaninov performing "live" on an Ampico piano roll.

    https://youtu.be/8oc2-Ku5UAE
    https://youtu.be/w-XrDw04P2M

    piano rolls are USELESS, not legitimate note perfect of course,
    heard this years ago did not take long to realize they sound nechanical

    Has anyone made a piano roll from a modern performance and compared
    them? Seems like if you did a bunch of these, you might be able to generalize
    about the old piano rolls, not that you could reverse engineer them.

    Thinking like an engineer? ;-)

    The obstacle to replicating 1900s piano rolls is the lack of media.
    They used special paper that is no longer manufactured today.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank Berger@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Fri Mar 31 17:46:25 2023
    On 3/31/2023 4:58 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 12:56:07 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
    On 3/31/2023 1:42 PM, AB wrote:
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 6:24:04 AM UTC-4, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 3:14:50 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    Here's Rachmaninov performing "live" on an Ampico piano roll.

    https://youtu.be/8oc2-Ku5UAE
    https://youtu.be/w-XrDw04P2M

    piano rolls are USELESS, not legitimate note perfect of course,
    heard this years ago did not take long to realize they sound nechanical

    Has anyone made a piano roll from a modern performance and compared
    them? Seems like if you did a bunch of these, you might be able to generalize
    about the old piano rolls, not that you could reverse engineer them.

    Thinking like an engineer? ;-)


    God no. Thinking like anybody trained in any kind of analysis would do. Except maybe psycho-. When I taught economics many moons ago, my colleagues seemed to think that engineering majors didn't take to economics very easily. I had no experience one
    way or another with that.


    The obstacle to replicating 1900s piano rolls is the lack of media.
    They used special paper that is no longer manufactured today.

    dk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Koren@21:1/5 to Dan Koren on Sun Apr 2 01:09:07 2023
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 3:24:04 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 3:14:50 AM UTC-7, Dan Koren wrote:
    Here's Rachmaninov performing "live" on an Ampico piano roll.

    https://youtu.be/8oc2-Ku5UAE

    https://youtu.be/w-XrDw04P2M

    https://youtu.be/elGdG95vwb0

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)