who "changed jazz forever".

http://www.openculture.com/2020/09/how-charlie-parker-changed-jazz-forever.html

John R.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 6:52:17 PM UTC-6, John wrote:

who "changed jazz forever".

http://www.openculture.com/2020/09/how-charlie-parker-changed-jazz-forever.html

John R.

Then again - no disrespect to any ornithologists here,
among whom I number myself - but Bird wasn't the only
game in town at the time. His school won (obviously)
but the road not taken was equally valid, and had it
been, Jazz would be a lot different today. Here's a
re-post of something I posted on FarceBook back in May,
2015:


Schooltime again...this time, Lennie Tristano. (Who? Yeah, I know....) Tristano was working in an entirely different direction from Diz and Bird, who ruled the roost at the time. (In this case, 1952.) Tristano often eschewed traditional song forms used
in bebop (AABA, ABAB, etc.) and was actually further into harmonic extensions than Bird or Diz at the time. In this album, you will hear the genesis of Les Paul's multitracked three and four part harmonies, done at considerable speed - but these cats did
it LIVE. You'll also hear precursors to the Desmond and Art Pepper cool school sax style - these two cats (Warne Marsh, tenor, and Lee Konitz, alto) are layin' down some *scorching* lines, splitting 4-part harmony with Tristano playing two of the parts
on the piano, rather than the unison lines favored by the bebop crew. This music was so advanced, it sounds like it could have been recorded last year. Again, this is a SINGLE PASS LIVE RECORDING - no gimmicks, just superb musicianship. Note that blues,
which formed most of the meat of the bebop school, is only used as seasoning in this music. Had Tristano been as widely known as Bird, Jazz would look completely different today. Got 45 minutes to get your head turned around? Try this: https://www.
youtube.com/watch?v=B6ivucAR5JY&list=PL0bpETmJ32vDO0vyy2OSEr8qIgoydHQYm

Lord Valve
Organist

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:39:57 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 8:00 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 6:52:17 PM UTC-6, John wrote:

who "changed jazz forever".

http://www.openculture.com/2020/09/how-charlie-parker-changed-jazz-forever.html

John R.

Then again - no disrespect to any ornithologists here,
among whom I number myself - but Bird wasn't the only
game in town at the time. His school won (obviously)
but the road not taken was equally valid, and had it
been, Jazz would be a lot different today. Here's a
re-post of something I posted on FarceBook back in May,
2015:

Schooltime again...this time, Lennie Tristano. (Who? Yeah, I know....) Tristano was working in an entirely different direction from Diz and Bird, who ruled the roost at the time. (In this case, 1952.) Tristano often eschewed traditional song forms

used in bebop (AABA, ABAB, etc.) and was actually further into harmonic extensions than Bird or Diz at the time. In this album, you will hear the genesis of Les Paul's multitracked three and four part harmonies, done at considerable speed - but these
cats did it LIVE. You'll also hear precursors to the Desmond and Art Pepper cool school sax style - these two cats (Warne Marsh, tenor, and Lee Konitz, alto) are layin' down some *scorching* lines, splitting 4-part harmony with Tristano playing two of
the parts on the piano, rather than the unison lines favored by the bebop crew. This music was so advanced, it sounds like it could have been recorded last year. Again, this is a SINGLE PASS LIVE RECORDING - no gimmicks, just superb musicianship. Note
that blues, which formed most of the meat of the bebop school, is only used as seasoning in this music. Had Tristano been as widely known as Bird, Jazz would look completely different today. Got 45 minutes to get your head turned around? Try this: https:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ivucAR5JY&list=PL0bpETmJ32vDO0vyy2OSEr8qIgoydHQYm

Lord Valve
Organist

https://jazztimes.com/features/columns/tristano-and-bird/

Reinforces my article nicely, thank you for posting.

LV

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 9:15:52 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 10:14 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:39:57 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 8:00 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 6:52:17 PM UTC-6, John wrote:

who "changed jazz forever".

http://www.openculture.com/2020/09/how-charlie-parker-changed-jazz-forever.html

John R.

Then again - no disrespect to any ornithologists here,
among whom I number myself - but Bird wasn't the only
game in town at the time. His school won (obviously)
but the road not taken was equally valid, and had it
been, Jazz would be a lot different today. Here's a
re-post of something I posted on FarceBook back in May,
2015:


Schooltime again...this time, Lennie Tristano. (Who? Yeah, I know....) Tristano was working in an entirely different direction from Diz and Bird, who ruled the roost at the time. (In this case, 1952.) Tristano often eschewed traditional song forms

used in bebop (AABA, ABAB, etc.) and was actually further into harmonic extensions than Bird or Diz at the time. In this album, you will hear the genesis of Les Paul's multitracked three and four part harmonies, done at considerable speed - but these
cats did it LIVE. You'll also hear precursors to the Desmond and Art Pepper cool school sax style - these two cats (Warne Marsh, tenor, and Lee Konitz, alto) are layin' down some *scorching* lines, splitting 4-part harmony with Tristano playing two of
the parts on the piano, rather than the unison lines favored by the bebop crew. This music was so advanced, it sounds like it could have been recorded last year. Again, this is a SINGLE PASS LIVE RECORDING - no gimmicks, just superb musicianship. Note
that blues, which formed most of the meat of the bebop school, is only used as seasoning in this music. Had Tristano been as widely known as Bird, Jazz would look completely different today. Got 45 minutes to get your head turned around? Try this: https:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ivucAR5JY&list=PL0bpETmJ32vDO0vyy2OSEr8qIgoydHQYm

Lord Valve
Organist

https://jazztimes.com/features/columns/tristano-and-bird/

Reinforces my article nicely, thank you for posting.

LV

No. It doesn't.

Yes. It does. They were two cats coming from
totally different directions who had vast
respect for each other. As far as the two
articles go, astute readers will note that
I *wrote* mine, while you *pasted* yours.

Why do you want to be such a fucking schmuck,
dude? I haven't said anything negative about
either cat. Who could? Other than a schmuck,
I suppose.

Lord Valve
Organist

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 12:01:03 PM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 12:15 p.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 9:15:52 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 10:14 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:39:57 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 8:00 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 6:52:17 PM UTC-6, John wrote:

who "changed jazz forever".

http://www.openculture.com/2020/09/how-charlie-parker-changed-jazz-forever.html

John R.

Then again - no disrespect to any ornithologists here,
among whom I number myself - but Bird wasn't the only
game in town at the time. His school won (obviously)
but the road not taken was equally valid, and had it
been, Jazz would be a lot different today. Here's a
re-post of something I posted on FarceBook back in May,
2015:


Schooltime again...this time, Lennie Tristano. (Who? Yeah, I know....) Tristano was working in an entirely different direction from Diz and Bird, who ruled the roost at the time. (In this case, 1952.) Tristano often eschewed traditional song

forms used in bebop (AABA, ABAB, etc.) and was actually further into harmonic extensions than Bird or Diz at the time. In this album, you will hear the genesis of Les Paul's multitracked three and four part harmonies, done at considerable speed - but
these cats did it LIVE. You'll also hear precursors to the Desmond and Art Pepper cool school sax style - these two cats (Warne Marsh, tenor, and Lee Konitz, alto) are layin' down some *scorching* lines, splitting 4-part harmony with Tristano playing two
of the parts on the piano, rather than the unison lines favored by the bebop crew. This music was so advanced, it sounds like it could have been recorded last year. Again, this is a SINGLE PASS LIVE RECORDING - no gimmicks, just superb musicianship. Note
that blues, which formed most of the meat of the bebop school, is only used as seasoning in this music. Had Tristano been as widely known as Bird, Jazz would look completely different today. Got 45 minutes to get your head turned around? Try this: https:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ivucAR5JY&list=PL0bpETmJ32vDO0vyy2OSEr8qIgoydHQYm

Lord Valve
Organist

https://jazztimes.com/features/columns/tristano-and-bird/

Reinforces my article nicely, thank you for posting.

LV

No. It doesn't.

Yes. It does. They were two cats coming from
totally different directions who had vast
respect for each other. As far as the two
articles go, astute readers will note that
I *wrote* mine, while you *pasted* yours.

Why do you want to be such a fucking schmuck,
dude? I haven't said anything negative about
either cat. Who could? Other than a schmuck,
I suppose.

Lord Valve
Organist

Bird was first.
Fuck you you racist piece of shit.

Bird was *different*. Those cats were concurrent.
WTF does racism have to do with anything - you got
something against Tristano because he was white?

You stupid shit!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 12:34:50 PM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 2:11 p.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 12:01:03 PM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 12:15 p.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 9:15:52 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 10:14 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:39:57 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 8:00 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 6:52:17 PM UTC-6, John wrote: >>>>>>>> who "changed jazz forever".

http://www.openculture.com/2020/09/how-charlie-parker-changed-jazz-forever.html

John R.

Then again - no disrespect to any ornithologists here,
among whom I number myself - but Bird wasn't the only
game in town at the time. His school won (obviously)
but the road not taken was equally valid, and had it
been, Jazz would be a lot different today. Here's a
re-post of something I posted on FarceBook back in May,
2015:


Schooltime again...this time, Lennie Tristano. (Who? Yeah, I know....) Tristano was working in an entirely different direction from Diz and Bird, who ruled the roost at the time. (In this case, 1952.) Tristano often eschewed traditional song

forms used in bebop (AABA, ABAB, etc.) and was actually further into harmonic extensions than Bird or Diz at the time. In this album, you will hear the genesis of Les Paul's multitracked three and four part harmonies, done at considerable speed - but
these cats did it LIVE. You'll also hear precursors to the Desmond and Art Pepper cool school sax style - these two cats (Warne Marsh, tenor, and Lee Konitz, alto) are layin' down some *scorching* lines, splitting 4-part harmony with Tristano playing two
of the parts on the piano, rather than the unison lines favored by the bebop crew. This music was so advanced, it sounds like it could have been recorded last year. Again, this is a SINGLE PASS LIVE RECORDING - no gimmicks, just superb musicianship. Note
that blues, which formed most of the meat of the bebop school, is only used as seasoning in this music. Had Tristano been as widely known as Bird, Jazz would look completely different today. Got 45 minutes to get your head turned around? Try this: https:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ivucAR5JY&list=PL0bpETmJ32vDO0vyy2OSEr8qIgoydHQYm

Lord Valve
Organist

https://jazztimes.com/features/columns/tristano-and-bird/

Reinforces my article nicely, thank you for posting.

LV

No. It doesn't.

Yes. It does. They were two cats coming from
totally different directions who had vast
respect for each other. As far as the two
articles go, astute readers will note that
I *wrote* mine, while you *pasted* yours.

Why do you want to be such a fucking schmuck,
dude? I haven't said anything negative about
either cat. Who could? Other than a schmuck,
I suppose.

Lord Valve
Organist

Bird was first.
Fuck you you racist piece of shit.

Bird was *different*. Those cats were concurrent.
WTF does racism have to do with anything - you got
something against Tristano because he was white?

You stupid shit!

Who should I believe?
You, a fat fool who can't play shit, or Lenny himself?

---
The blind pianist recognized Parker as the single most important
innovator of modern jazz, and rejected the commonly held view that bebop
was formulated in a workshop-like atmosphere at Minton’s and Monroe’s and other after-hours venues. Eunmi Shim’s 2007 biography, Lennie Tristano: His Life and Music, quotes a 1973 interview in which Tristano
told Irv Schenkler, “It all came from Bird, who was influenced by Pres, musically speaking.”
---

Fuck you and your ignorant musings on jazz and everything else for that matter.
Your only motivation for trying to prop Tristano's contribution above
Bird's has to be your well known rabid racist views.

"His school won.", meaning Bird's, you said.
Bird's was the ONLY school and Tristano was a student.
Jeez.

Ah, I see. Well, no sense arguing with a fool like
you, I reckon. I don't see how you can interpret
anything I wrote as "prop(ping) Tristano's contribution
above Bird's" - what I said was that if Tristano's
approach had prevailed (it didn't) then Jazz would
be very different today. What that has to do with
race is beyond me - YOU brought it up, not I.

You're a fucking creepy little bitch, y'know that?
Here - have the last word. I know you'll shit your
fucking self if you don't...

Lord Valve
Organist

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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Cg==

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 09 Sep 2020 14:34:45 -0400, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 2:11 p.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 12:01:03 PM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote: >>> On 2020-09-09 12:15 p.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 9:15:52 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote: >>>>> On 2020-09-09 10:14 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:39:57 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 8:00 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 6:52:17 PM UTC-6, John wrote: >>>>>>>>> who "changed jazz forever".

http://www.openculture.com/2020/09/how-charlie-parker-changed-jazz-forever.html

John R.

Then again - no disrespect to any ornithologists here,
among whom I number myself - but Bird wasn't the only
game in town at the time. His school won (obviously)
but the road not taken was equally valid, and had it
been, Jazz would be a lot different today. Here's a
re-post of something I posted on FarceBook back in May,
2015:


Schooltime again...this time, Lennie Tristano. (Who? Yeah, I know....) Tristano was working in an entirely different direction from Diz and Bird, who ruled the roost at the time. (In this case, 1952.) Tristano often eschewed traditional song

forms used in bebop (AABA, ABAB, etc.) and was actually further into harmonic extensions than Bird or Diz at the time. In this album, you will hear the genesis of Les Paul's multitracked three and four part harmonies, done at considerable speed - but
these cats did it LIVE. You'll also hear precursors to the Desmond and Art Pepper cool school sax style - these two cats (Warne Marsh, tenor, and Lee Konitz, alto) are layin' down some *scorching* lines, splitting 4-part harmony with Tristano playing two
of the parts on the piano, rather than the unison lines favored by the bebop crew. This music was so advanced, it sounds like it could have been recorded last year. Again, this is a SINGLE PASS LIVE RECORDING - no gimmicks, just superb musicianship. Note
that blues, which formed most of the meat of the bebop school, is only used as seasoning in this music. Had Tristano been as widely known as Bird, Jazz would look completely different today. Got 45 minutes to get your head turned around? Try this: https:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ivucAR5JY&list=PL0bpETmJ32vDO0vyy2OSEr8qIgoydHQYm >>>>>>>>

Lord Valve
Organist

https://jazztimes.com/features/columns/tristano-and-bird/

Reinforces my article nicely, thank you for posting.

LV

No. It doesn't.

Yes. It does. They were two cats coming from
totally different directions who had vast
respect for each other. As far as the two
articles go, astute readers will note that
I *wrote* mine, while you *pasted* yours.

Why do you want to be such a fucking schmuck,
dude? I haven't said anything negative about
either cat. Who could? Other than a schmuck,
I suppose.

Lord Valve
Organist

Bird was first.
Fuck you you racist piece of shit.

Bird was *different*. Those cats were concurrent.
WTF does racism have to do with anything - you got
something against Tristano because he was white?

You stupid shit!

Who should I believe?
You, a fat fool who can't play shit, or Lenny himself?

---
The blind pianist recognized Parker as the single most important
innovator of modern jazz, and rejected the commonly held view that bebop
was formulated in a workshop-like atmosphere at Minton’s and Monroe’s
and other after-hours venues. Eunmi Shim’s 2007 biography, Lennie
Tristano: His Life and Music, quotes a 1973 interview in which Tristano
told Irv Schenkler, “It all came from Bird, who was influenced by Pres, musically speaking.”
---

Fuck you and your ignorant musings on jazz and everything else for that matter.
Your only motivation for trying to prop Tristano's contribution above
Bird's has to be your well known rabid racist views.

WTF? Seriously? What, was Tristano a Klansman in good standing or something? wTF does race have to do with ANYTHING LV posted?

As for "racism", LV ain't racist. You need to quit swilling the leftist race-baiting Kool-Aid, son. It's all bullshit, contrived by *YOUR* side to hide the reality. And the reality is that we're in the midst of a top-down class war. Wealthy leftist elitists want to grind all of us under their heel, your dumb ass included. They contrived the whole race-hustle to fool fools like
you, and hide their true motives. Wake the fuck up, schmuck! Get a clue, for once in your pitiful life.

<fart>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 09 Sep 2020 15:12:33 -0400, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 2:47 p.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 12:34:50 PM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote: >>> On 2020-09-09 2:11 p.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 12:01:03 PM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 12:15 p.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 9:15:52 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 10:14 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:39:57 AM UTC-6, Joey Goldstein wrote:

On 2020-09-09 8:00 a.m., Lord Valve wrote:

On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 6:52:17 PM UTC-6, John wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> who "changed jazz forever".

http://www.openculture.com/2020/09/how-charlie-parker-changed-jazz-forever.html

John R.

Then again - no disrespect to any ornithologists here,
among whom I number myself - but Bird wasn't the only
game in town at the time. His school won (obviously)
but the road not taken was equally valid, and had it
been, Jazz would be a lot different today. Here's a
re-post of something I posted on FarceBook back in May,
2015:


Schooltime again...this time, Lennie Tristano. (Who? Yeah, I know....) Tristano was working in an entirely different direction from Diz and Bird, who ruled the roost at the time. (In this case, 1952.) Tristano often eschewed traditional song

forms used in bebop (AABA, ABAB, etc.) and was actually further into harmonic extensions than Bird or Diz at the time. In this album, you will hear the genesis of Les Paul's multitracked three and four part harmonies, done at considerable speed - but
these cats did it LIVE. You'll also hear precursors to the Desmond and Art Pepper cool school sax style - these two cats (Warne Marsh, tenor, and Lee Konitz, alto) are layin' down some *scorching* lines, splitting 4-part harmony with Tristano playing two
of the parts on the piano, rather than the unison lines favored by the bebop crew. This music was so advanced, it sounds like it could have been recorded last year. Again, this is a SINGLE PASS LIVE RECORDING - no gimmicks, just superb musicianship. Note
that blues, which formed most of the meat of the bebop school, is only used as seasoning in this music. Had Tristano been as widely known as Bird, Jazz would look completely different today. Got 45 minutes to get your head turned around? Try this: https:
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ivucAR5JY&list=PL0bpETmJ32vDO0vyy2OSEr8qIgoydHQYm >>>>>>>>>>

Lord Valve
Organist

https://jazztimes.com/features/columns/tristano-and-bird/

Reinforces my article nicely, thank you for posting.

LV

No. It doesn't.

Yes. It does. They were two cats coming from
totally different directions who had vast
respect for each other. As far as the two
articles go, astute readers will note that
I *wrote* mine, while you *pasted* yours.

Why do you want to be such a fucking schmuck,
dude? I haven't said anything negative about
either cat. Who could? Other than a schmuck,
I suppose.

Lord Valve
Organist

Bird was first.
Fuck you you racist piece of shit.

Bird was *different*. Those cats were concurrent.
WTF does racism have to do with anything - you got
something against Tristano because he was white?

You stupid shit!

Who should I believe?
You, a fat fool who can't play shit, or Lenny himself?

---
The blind pianist recognized Parker as the single most important
innovator of modern jazz, and rejected the commonly held view that bebop >>> was formulated in a workshop-like atmosphere at Minton’s and Monroe’s >>> and other after-hours venues. Eunmi Shim’s 2007 biography, Lennie
Tristano: His Life and Music, quotes a 1973 interview in which Tristano
told Irv Schenkler, “It all came from Bird, who was influenced by Pres, >>> musically speaking.”
---

Fuck you and your ignorant musings on jazz and everything else for that
matter.
Your only motivation for trying to prop Tristano's contribution above
Bird's has to be your well known rabid racist views.

"His school won.", meaning Bird's, you said.
Bird's was the ONLY school and Tristano was a student.
Jeez.

Ah, I see. Well, no sense arguing with a fool like
you, I reckon. I don't see how you can interpret
anything I wrote as "prop(ping) Tristano's contribution
above Bird's" - what I said was that if Tristano's
approach had prevailed (it didn't) then Jazz would
be very different today. What that has to do with
race is beyond me - YOU brought it up, not I.

You're a fucking creepy little bitch, y'know that?
Here - have the last word. I know you'll shit your
fucking self if you don't...

Lord Valve
Organist

Great.
Here's my last word.
Go fuck yourself pig.

You must have an incredibly miserable, pathetic life. Do you sit
around watching CNN and MSNBC all day, slurping up all their lies
and hatred? Are you seething with anger 24/7? Do you feel the need
to go riot, loot, and burn down shit that decent Americans have
spent their lives building?

Your a pitiful schmuck, and everyone here knows it. Quit hating
others, and stick to hating yourself.

<poot>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)