Was by losing to Rune. Now back to his stupid ball bashing.
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Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:15:13 PM UTC-5, Court_1 wrote:

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Good point!

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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.
Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while
playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 <olymp...@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.

Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while
playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it was a
pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes someone a "
loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament.

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Gracchus <gracchado@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Court_1 <olymp...@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r> > Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to

figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.> Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions > want to win titles. > Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice
for him while > playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final > would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made > the SF already.This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid
Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO.
I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to
position to win the tournament.

But remember they are all champions that cheat by taking illegal
drugs :)
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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:24:35 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.
Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while
playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

True champions want to beat the best players. There's no sense trying to dodge Djokovic as Djokovic isn't going away and Sinner will have to figure him out eventually. I can't imagine that Darrin Cahill would tell Sinner to dodge Djokovic in the final

based on what I've heard Cahill say in the past.

Even if he has to figure him out eventually, maybe he'd just want the year-end championship NOW. ;)

He's already making a lot of money with his designer endorsements so winning another few million by winning the title probably isn't his main goal. Beating Djokovic should be his goal.

There are other possible motivations involved though. There's prestige of the title and his ranking among other things. I suppose his reputation would take a hit if someone could prove he tanked, but it wouldn't matter in the long run.

We have no idea if they discussed tanking vs. playing all out. All we know is what they decided in the end.

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:24:35 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.
Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while
playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

True champions want to beat the best players. There's no sense trying to dodge Djokovic as Djokovic isn't going away and Sinner will have to figure him out eventually. I can't imagine that Darrin Cahill would tell Sinner to dodge Djokovic in the final
based on what I've heard Cahill say in the past.

He's already making a lot of money with his designer endorsements so winning another few million by winning the title probably isn't his main goal. Beating Djokovic should be his goal.

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:31:40 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Gracchus <grac...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Court_1 Wrote in message:r> > Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to

beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.> Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions > want to win titles. > Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while >
playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final > would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made > the SF already.This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the
next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the
champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win
the tournament.

But remember they are all champions that cheat by taking illegal
drugs :)

I really feel sorry for you if you truly think the top players are drug-free. It's IMPOSSIBLE!

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:38:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.

Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while
playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it was

a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes someone
a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament.

If Sinner won the tournament beating Djokovic in the final that would be way more valuable than winning the tournament beating Alcaraz. It's Djokovic who is standing in the way of these other players winning slams.

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:28:35 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:38:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.

Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it

was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes
someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament.

If Sinner won the tournament beating Djokovic in the final that would be way more valuable than winning the tournament beating Alcaraz. It's Djokovic who is standing in the way of these other players winning slams.

One could argue that he'd already beaten Djokovic once that week. Would he have to beat him twice within a few days to make the championship "valid"? Not sure about that. Besides, a match against Alcaraz probably wouldn't be a cakewalk for him either.

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:27:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:24:35 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.
Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

True champions want to beat the best players. There's no sense trying to dodge Djokovic as Djokovic isn't going away and Sinner will have to figure him out eventually. I can't imagine that Darrin Cahill would tell Sinner to dodge Djokovic in the

final based on what I've heard Cahill say in the past.

Even if he has to figure him out eventually, maybe he'd just want the year-end championship NOW. ;)

Well, he obviously made his choice. I have to give him credit for that. He didn't try and slink away.

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:33:22 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:27:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:24:35 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.
Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

True champions want to beat the best players. There's no sense trying to dodge Djokovic as Djokovic isn't going away and Sinner will have to figure him out eventually. I can't imagine that Darrin Cahill would tell Sinner to dodge Djokovic in the

final based on what I've heard Cahill say in the past.

Even if he has to figure him out eventually, maybe he'd just want the year-end championship NOW. ;)

Well, he obviously made his choice. I have to give him credit for that. He didn't try and slink away.

Nope. he stepped up and got his ass kicked. Does that get him off your "brainless basher" list? ;)

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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:31:40PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Gracchus <grac...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r > > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Court_1 Wrote in message:r> > Only a loser thinks that

way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.> Champions take it easy at times when it'
s needed, also champions > want to win titles. > Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while > playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final > would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made > the SF
already.This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him,
it was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes
someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament. > > But remember they are all champions that cheat by taking illegal > drugs :)I really feel sorry for you if you truly
think the top players are drug-free. It's IMPOSSIBLE!

You are never able to connect the dots.

You said Sinner can't tank a match because he is a champion and
champions wouldn't tank a match because it violates their ethics
and morals but somehow their ethics have no problems cheating the
system doping with illegal substances.

How do they go together?
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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:35:49 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:33:22 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:27:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:24:35 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions want to win titles.
Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

True champions want to beat the best players. There's no sense trying to dodge Djokovic as Djokovic isn't going away and Sinner will have to figure him out eventually. I can't imagine that Darrin Cahill would tell Sinner to dodge Djokovic in the

final based on what I've heard Cahill say in the past.

Even if he has to figure him out eventually, maybe he'd just want the year-end championship NOW. ;)

Well, he obviously made his choice. I have to give him credit for that. He didn't try and slink away.

Nope. he stepped up and got his ass kicked. Does that get him off your "brainless basher" list? ;)

Did anybody really expect more from Sinner? Djokovic doesn't often give you a chance to beat him twice in a row.

To me, Sinner still seems pretty one-dimensional. Djokovic exploited that in an expert fashion today.

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 8:46:07 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 Wrote in message:r

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:31:40 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Gracchus <grac...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r > > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Court_1 Wrote in message:r> > Only a loser thinks that

way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.> Champions take it easy at times when it'
s needed, also champions > want to win titles. > Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while > playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final > would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made > the SF
already.This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him,
it was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes
someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament. > > But remember they are all champions that cheat by taking illegal > drugs :)I really feel sorry for you if you truly
think the top players are drug-free. It's IMPOSSIBLE!

You are never able to connect the dots.

You said Sinner can't tank a match because he is a champion and
champions wouldn't tank a match because it violates their ethics
and morals but somehow their ethics have no problems cheating the
system doping with illegal substances.

How do they go together?

First of all, I never said Sinner would never tank a match. I said in this tournament where the stakes are high, he chose to face Djokovic in the final.

Whether a player would tank a match or not has nothing to do with whether or not he would partake in the cocktails. There's no correlation whatsoever IMO. I know many people don't want to believe that top pro athletes all take PEDS(why, I don't
understand) but for me it's obvious they all do. If you don't want to believe it, fine with me.

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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 8:46:07PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Court_1 Wrote in message:r > > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:31:40 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Gracchus <grac...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r > > On Sunday, November 19,

2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Court_1 Wrote in message:r> > Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future
slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.> Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions > want to win titles. > Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while > playing Rune, but also preserving
energy for the SF and final > would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made > the SF already.This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and
called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-
and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament. > > But remember they are
all champions that cheat by taking illegal > drugs :)I really feel sorry for you if you truly think the top players are drug-free. It's IMPOSSIBLE! > > You are never able to connect the dots. > > You said Sinner can't tank a match because he is a
champion and > champions wouldn't tank a match because it violates their ethics > and morals but somehow their ethics have no problems cheating the > system doping with illegal substances. > > How do they go together?First of all, I never said Sinner
would never tank a match. I said in this tournament where the stakes are high, he chose to face Djokovic in the final.Whether a player would tank a match or not has nothing to do with whether or not he would partake in the cocktails. There's no
correlation whatsoever IMO. I know many people don't want to believe that top pro athletes all take PEDS(why, I don't understand) but for me it's obvious they all do. If you don't want to believe it, fine with me.

You said "True champions want to beat the best players." as an
argument against the possibility that Sinner would tank a match
to win a big title knowing that he already beat djokovic, but on
the other hand you say these champions have no moral problems
cheating the system when they choose to dope to win
matches.
Clearly these players that cheat the system by utilizing any
illegal methods to gain advantage over their opponents shouldn't
have any problem tanking a match in RR.
Makes sense?
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On 20/11/2023 4:54 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Was by losing to Rune. Now back to his stupid ball bashing.

Sinner has too much integrity to tank, plus he had a day rest after that
match. Fans pay good money to watch the pros do their best and Sinner
respects that. Rafa would also never tank. Guys like Tsitipas 100%
would lol. A true great would also want to face and beat the very best players, means more than fluking it.

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On 20/11/2023 6:24 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.
Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while
playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

True, but Sinner had a day off to recover and imo you shouldn't back
away from playing the toughest opponents, if you want to be great
yourself. I can't imagine Novak ever wanting to avoid playing Roger or
Rafa.

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On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 9:13:10 PM UTC-8, Whisper wrote:

On 20/11/2023 4:54 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Was by losing to Rune. Now back to his stupid ball bashing.

Sinner has too much integrity to tank

LOL, you know nothing about the guy or his character.

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Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 20/11/2023 4:54 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Was by losing to Rune. Now back to his stupid ball bashing.Sinner has too much integrity to tank, plus he had a day rest after that match. Fans pay good money to watch the pros do their best and Sinner

respects that. Rafa would also never tank. Guys like Tsitipas 100% would lol. A true great would also want to face and beat the very best players, means more than fluking it.

And you knew about the integrity and the true greatness, how exactly?

I'd say he is young and stupid, probably he will have more
experience next time :)


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On Sunday, 19 November 2023 at 19:24:35 UTC, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 <olymp...@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.
Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while
playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

yes agree, would've definitely done that if it meant no Djoker in the final, plain stupid not to.

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On Sunday, 19 November 2023 at 19:38:35 UTC, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 <olymp...@yahoo.com> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.

Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while
playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it was

a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes someone
a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament.

if you win the tournament nobody cares about some loss to Rune in the RR, it would've been much cleverer of Sinner to have tanked.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, 20 November 2023 at 07:27:31 UTC, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Whisper <whi...@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 20/11/2023 4:54 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Was by losing to Rune. Now back to his stupid ball bashing.Sinner has too much integrity to tank, plus he had a day rest after that match. Fans pay good money to watch the pros do their best and Sinner

respects that. Rafa would also never tank. Guys like Tsitipas 100% would lol. A true great would also want to face and beat the very best players, means more than fluking it.

And you knew about the integrity and the true greatness, how exactly?

I'd say he is young and stupid, probably he will have more
experience next time :)

him beating Rune was the equivalent of David Ferrer choosing to play Fed instead of say Verdasco! the idiot should've got to serving for the match and then fallen over or something.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, 20 November 2023 at 00:28:35 UTC, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:38:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.

Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it

was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes
someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament.

If Sinner won the tournament beating Djokovic in the final that would be way more valuable than winning the tournament beating Alcaraz. It's Djokovic who is standing in the way of these other players winning slams.

no it wouldn't cos he'd already beaten Djoker in the RR match, that's all everyone would talk about "Sinner Wins ATP exo Finals - beating Wimbledon champ in final and #1 Djoker in previous rounds, the 22 year old is now changing the guard and will
undoubtedly win the next 16 slams in a row!"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, 20 November 2023 at 03:00:10 UTC, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:35:49 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:33:22 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:27:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-8, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:24:35 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions want to win titles.
Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made the SF already.

True champions want to beat the best players. There's no sense trying to dodge Djokovic as Djokovic isn't going away and Sinner will have to figure him out eventually. I can't imagine that Darrin Cahill would tell Sinner to dodge Djokovic in

the final based on what I've heard Cahill say in the past.

Even if he has to figure him out eventually, maybe he'd just want the year-end championship NOW. ;)

Well, he obviously made his choice. I have to give him credit for that. He didn't try and slink away.

Nope. he stepped up and got his ass kicked. Does that get him off your "brainless basher" list? ;)

Did anybody really expect more from Sinner? Djokovic doesn't often give you a chance to beat him twice in a row.

To me, Sinner still seems pretty one-dimensional. Djokovic exploited that in an expert fashion today.

somehow Sinner did the right thing by choosing to get completely whooped in the final cos his non-slam winning coach told him to LOL

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 6:48:32 AM UTC-8, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 20 November 2023 at 00:28:35 UTC, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:38:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.

Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it

was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes
someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament.

If Sinner won the tournament beating Djokovic in the final that would be way more valuable than winning the tournament beating Alcaraz. It's Djokovic who is standing in the way of these other players winning slams.

no it wouldn't cos he'd already beaten Djoker in the RR match, that's all everyone would talk about "Sinner Wins ATP exo Finals - beating Wimbledon champ in final and #1 Djoker in previous rounds, the 22 year old is now changing the guard and will

undoubtedly win the next 16 slams in a row!"

Yeah, it would have been easy to let Rune win and not be obvious. Questions about whether Sinner tanked would swirl around briefly and be forgotten by the AO, outshone by his big coup of winning the championship.

I'm not saying he should or shouldn't have gone that route because it's a personal call depending on Sinner's priorities. But IMO it makes more sense to criticize the RR format design allowing a player to benefit from a loss than condemn the player for
taking advantage of it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 8:46:07 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

You are never able to connect the dots.

You said Sinner can't tank a match because he is a champion and
champions wouldn't tank a match because it violates their ethics
and morals but somehow their ethics have no problems cheating the
system doping with illegal substances.

How do they go together?

First of all, I never said Sinner would never tank a match. I said in
this tournament where the stakes are high, he chose to face Djokovic
in the final.

Whether a player would tank a match or not has nothing to do with
whether or not he would partake in the cocktails. There's no
correlation whatsoever IMO. I know many people don't want to believe
that top pro athletes all take PEDS(why, I don't understand) but for
me it's obvious they all do. If you don't want to believe it, fine
with me.

I think there is a distinction that needs to be made here, especially
since Waleed is using the term "illegal". You seem to be not addressing
that point. When you say PEDs, do you mean illegal substances (i.e.,
already banned stuff) OR do you mean that they take some
drugs/substances that ARE NOT YET banned (because the Top Pros'
doctors, chemists are ahead of the testing curve) ? There is not much difference in practice, but legally there is a huge difference.

For example, what Sharapova took was perfectly legal until end of 2015,
but illegal from the following Jan. when she was caught and banned.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Shakes" <kvcshake@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r

Court_1 wrote:> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 8:46:07PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:> > > > You are never able to connect the dots. > > > > You said Sinner can't tank a match because he is a champion and > > champions wouldn't tank a match because it

violates their ethics > > and morals but somehow their ethics have no problems cheating the > > system doping with illegal substances. > > > > How do they go together?> > > First of all, I never said Sinner would never tank a match. I said in> this
tournament where the stakes are high, he chose to face Djokovic> in the final.> > Whether a player would tank a match or not has nothing to do with> whether or not he would partake in the cocktails. There's no> correlation whatsoever IMO. I know many
people don't want to believe> that top pro athletes all take PEDS(why, I don't understand) but for> me it's obvious they all do. If you don't want to believe it, fine> with me.I think there is a distinction that needs to be made here, especiallysince
Waleed is using the term "illegal". You seem to be not addressingthat point. When you say PEDs, do you mean illegal substances (i.e.,already banned stuff) OR do you mean that they take somedrugs/substances that ARE NOT YET banned (because the Top Pros'
doctors, chemists are ahead of the testing curve) ? There is not muchdifference in practice, but legally there is a huge difference.For example, what Sharapova took was perfectly legal until end of 2015,but illegal from the following Jan. when she was
caught and banned.

She believes all players do illegal doping while ATP close their eyes.

Here are two discussion threads on the matter

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.tennis/c/NLb-90i_XvU/m/itzdyjoJBgAJ

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.tennis/c/bsTFtBwXbCM/m/VaRF7WgICQAJ



--




----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 9:48:32 AM UTC-5, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 20 November 2023 at 00:28:35 UTC, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:38:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions
want to win titles.

Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it

was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes
someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament.

If Sinner won the tournament beating Djokovic in the final that would be way more valuable than winning the tournament beating Alcaraz. It's Djokovic who is standing in the way of these other players winning slams.

no it wouldn't cos he'd already beaten Djoker in the RR match, that's all everyone would talk about "Sinner Wins ATP exo Finals - beating Wimbledon champ in final and #1 Djoker in previous rounds, the 22 year old is now changing the guard and will

undoubtedly win the next 16 slams in a row!"

No, all people would be talking about is Sinner only beat Djokovic in the round robin stage and he needed Djokovic to be gone in order for him to win the tournament.

Sinner's true test was to beat Djokovic in the final to win the tournament. Clearly, he messed it up. That's why I said earlier, Sinner hasn't arrived anywhere yet. Djokovic slaughtered him in the final when something was really on the line. We're back
to square one.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 4:11:01 PM UTC-5, Shakes wrote:

Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 8:46:07 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

You are never able to connect the dots.

You said Sinner can't tank a match because he is a champion and champions wouldn't tank a match because it violates their ethics
and morals but somehow their ethics have no problems cheating the
system doping with illegal substances.

How do they go together?

First of all, I never said Sinner would never tank a match. I said in
this tournament where the stakes are high, he chose to face Djokovic
in the final.

Whether a player would tank a match or not has nothing to do with
whether or not he would partake in the cocktails. There's no
correlation whatsoever IMO. I know many people don't want to believe
that top pro athletes all take PEDS(why, I don't understand) but for
me it's obvious they all do. If you don't want to believe it, fine
with me.

I think there is a distinction that needs to be made here, especially
since Waleed is using the term "illegal". You seem to be not addressing
that point. When you say PEDs, do you mean illegal substances (i.e.,
already banned stuff) OR do you mean that they take some
drugs/substances that ARE NOT YET banned (because the Top Pros'
doctors, chemists are ahead of the testing curve) ? There is not much difference in practice, but legally there is a huge difference.

For example, what Sharapova took was perfectly legal until end of 2015,
but illegal from the following Jan. when she was caught and banned.

Legal, illegal, whatever. IMO all elite athletes partake.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 10:21:11 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1 Wrote in message:r

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 8:46:07 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Court_1 Wrote in message:r > > On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 4:31:40 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Gracchus <grac...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r > > On Sunday, November 19,

2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Court_1 Wrote in message:r> > Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future
slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.> Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions > want to win titles. > Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while > playing Rune, but also preserving
energy for the SF and final > would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made > the SF already.This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and
called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him, it was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-
and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament. > > But remember they are
all champions that cheat by taking illegal > drugs :)I really feel sorry for you if you truly think the top players are drug-free. It's IMPOSSIBLE! > > You are never able to connect the dots. > > You said Sinner can't tank a match because he is a
champion and > champions wouldn't tank a match because it violates their ethics > and morals but somehow their ethics have no problems cheating the > system doping with illegal substances. > > How do they go together?First of all, I never said Sinner
would never tank a match. I said in this tournament where the stakes are high, he chose to face Djokovic in the final.Whether a player would tank a match or not has nothing to do with whether or not he would partake in the cocktails. There's no
correlation whatsoever IMO. I know many people don't want to believe that top pro athletes all take PEDS(why, I don't understand) but for me it's obvious they all do. If you don't want to believe it, fine with me.

You said "True champions want to beat the best players." as an
argument against the possibility that Sinner would tank a match
to win a big title knowing that he already beat djokovic, but on
the other hand you say these champions have no moral problems
cheating the system when they choose to dope to win
matches.
Clearly these players that cheat the system by utilizing any
illegal methods to gain advantage over their opponents shouldn't
have any problem tanking a match in RR.
Makes sense?

Theoretically, but not in practice in my opinion. I don't think there's necessarily a correlation.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, 21 November 2023 at 01:22:38 UTC, PeteWasLucky wrote:

"Shakes" <kvcs...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r

Court_1 wrote:> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 8:46:07 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:> > > > You are never able to connect the dots. > > > > You said Sinner can't tank a match because he is a champion and > > champions wouldn't tank a match because

it violates their ethics > > and morals but somehow their ethics have no problems cheating the > > system doping with illegal substances. > > > > How do they go together?> > > First of all, I never said Sinner would never tank a match. I said in> this
tournament where the stakes are high, he chose to face Djokovic> in the final.> > Whether a player would tank a match or not has nothing to do with> whether or not he would partake in the cocktails. There's no> correlation whatsoever IMO. I know many
people don't want to believe> that top pro athletes all take PEDS(why, I don't understand) but for> me it's obvious they all do. If you don't want to believe it, fine> with me.I think there is a distinction that needs to be made here, especiallysince
Waleed is using the term "illegal". You seem to be not addressingthat point. When you say PEDs, do you mean illegal substances (i.e.,already banned stuff) OR do you mean that they take somedrugs/substances that ARE NOT YET banned (because the Top Pros'
doctors, chemists are ahead of the testing curve) ? There is not muchdifference in practice, but legally there is a huge difference.For example, what Sharapova took was perfectly legal until end of 2015,but illegal from the following Jan. when she was
caught and banned.

She believes all players do illegal doping while ATP close their eyes.

Here are two discussion threads on the matter

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.tennis/c/NLb-90i_XvU/m/itzdyjoJBgAJ

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.tennis/c/bsTFtBwXbCM/m/VaRF7WgICQAJ

yes she's always said it's the illegal stuff, the funny thing is she always defended Fed says "if Fed is taking them, then so is eveyone else, but if Nadal is taking them the only Nadal is".
She also got very upset when those Russian hackers EXPOSED that most USA athletes like Serena etc were taking "permitted" PEDs by claiming to have asthma etc.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, 21 November 2023 at 03:21:29 UTC, Court_1 wrote:

On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 9:48:32 AM UTC-5, The Iceberg wrote:

On Monday, 20 November 2023 at 00:28:35 UTC, Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 2:38:35 PM UTC-5, Gracchus wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 11:24:35 AM UTC-8, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Court_1> Wrote in message:r

Only a loser thinks that way and not a professional tennis player with a champion's mentality. Sinner knows that he'll have to figure out how to beat Djokovic here or at future slams and if he can't do that, he doesn't deserve any glory.

Champions take it easy at times when it's needed, also champions want to win titles.

Eliminating djokovic in RR could have been a choice for him while playing Rune, but also preserving energy for the SF and final
would have been a major goal for many players knowing they made
the SF already.

This reminds me of the time Lendl tanked against Connors in one of these tournaments to avoid Borg in the next round. Connors was disgusted and called Lendl "chicken." Lendl admitted a few years later that he'd indeed tanked the match. For him,

it was a pragmatic choice given the way the round robin was set up. Both players had valid points IMO. I think the champion's mentality is fighting tooth-and-nail to beat any player on the other side of the net. But I don't think it automatically makes
someone a "loser" to let a match go in a situation like this if doing so puts them in a better to position to win the tournament.

If Sinner won the tournament beating Djokovic in the final that would be way more valuable than winning the tournament beating Alcaraz. It's Djokovic who is standing in the way of these other players winning slams.

no it wouldn't cos he'd already beaten Djoker in the RR match, that's all everyone would talk about "Sinner Wins ATP exo Finals - beating Wimbledon champ in final and #1 Djoker in previous rounds, the 22 year old is now changing the guard and will

undoubtedly win the next 16 slams in a row!"

No, all people would be talking about is Sinner only beat Djokovic in the round robin stage and he needed Djokovic to be gone in order for him to win the tournament.

Sinner's true test was to beat Djokovic in the final to win the tournament. Clearly, he messed it up. That's why I said earlier, Sinner hasn't arrived anywhere yet. Djokovic slaughtered him in the final when something was really on the line. We're back

to square one.

HAHHHHAA yeah the media would definitely be fully concentrating on Djoker not being there, rather than lauding Sinner as the "new generation's brightest star...a changing of the guard" HAHAAHAH

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, 21 November 2023 at 03:24:22 UTC, Court_1 wrote:

On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 4:11:01 PM UTC-5, Shakes wrote:

Court_1 wrote:

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 8:46:07 PM UTC-5, PeteWasLucky wrote:

You are never able to connect the dots.

You said Sinner can't tank a match because he is a champion and champions wouldn't tank a match because it violates their ethics
and morals but somehow their ethics have no problems cheating the system doping with illegal substances.

How do they go together?

First of all, I never said Sinner would never tank a match. I said in this tournament where the stakes are high, he chose to face Djokovic
in the final.

Whether a player would tank a match or not has nothing to do with whether or not he would partake in the cocktails. There's no
correlation whatsoever IMO. I know many people don't want to believe that top pro athletes all take PEDS(why, I don't understand) but for
me it's obvious they all do. If you don't want to believe it, fine
with me.

I think there is a distinction that needs to be made here, especially since Waleed is using the term "illegal". You seem to be not addressing that point. When you say PEDs, do you mean illegal substances (i.e., already banned stuff) OR do you mean that they take some
drugs/substances that ARE NOT YET banned (because the Top Pros'
doctors, chemists are ahead of the testing curve) ? There is not much difference in practice, but legally there is a huge difference.

For example, what Sharapova took was perfectly legal until end of 2015, but illegal from the following Jan. when she was caught and banned.

Legal, illegal, whatever. IMO all elite athletes partake.

they can't be very honorable like Sinner then, guess it only Sinner that doesn't take them.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)