https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/maailma/art-2000010601961.html?_x_tr_hist=true

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

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On 1.8.2024 22.14, Pelle Svanslös wrote:

https://www-hs-fi.translate.goog/maailma/art-2000010601961.html?_x_tr_hist=true

Hmm. Doesn't seem to work that link. Here goes:

FINLAND was guilty of war crimes and the genocide of the Soviet allies
in Karelia during the Continuation War in 1941–1944, the Supreme Court
of the Russian Republic of Karelia decided on Thursday.

The trial was broadcast live online and reported by the Russian state
news agency Tass .

THE COURT decided that the Finnish troops committed war crimes and
genocide in the Eastern Karelia region, Tass says.

According to Judge Natalija Ivanova, the court decided to recognize as
war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide of the Soviet people
the crimes "committed by the Nazi occupiers, occupation authorities and
Finnish troops in the territory of Soviet Karelia during the Great
Patriotic War".

In Russia, the Second World War is called the "Great Patriotic War".

According to Judge Ivanova, the genocide of the local population of the
Soviet Union was "part of a plan in which the purpose of Nazi Germany
and its ally Finland was to expel and destroy [the population] to get
rid of the entire local population of the Soviet Union in order to
colonize the liberated area."

The decision can be appealed to the Supreme Court of the Republic of
Karelia for one month.

IN THE REPUBLIC OF KARELIA in Russia, a trial began in July, in which
Russia accused Finland of the genocide of the Russian inhabitants of
Eastern Karelia and war crimes against them during the Continuation War.

At the end of June, Russian prosecutors asked the court to recognize
that Finns committed genocide in Eastern Karelia during the Continuation
War.

In June, the Russian Security Council published an article on its
website criticizing the Finnish occupation administration in Eastern
Karelia during the Continuation War and accusing Finland of genocide. In addition, Finland is equated with Nazi Germany.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

In June, the Russian Security Council published an article on its
website criticizing the Finnish occupation administration in Eastern
Karelia during the Continuation War and accusing Finland of genocide. In addition, Finland is equated with Nazi Germany.

I am stunned. Are you actually *so stupid* that you
believe in Russian lies?

If not, why did you post this shit??? Unbelievable!

br,
KK

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Kalevi Kolttonen kirjoitti 1.8.2024 klo 23.50:

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

In June, the Russian Security Council published an article on its
website criticizing the Finnish occupation administration in Eastern
Karelia during the Continuation War and accusing Finland of genocide. In
addition, Finland is equated with Nazi Germany.

I am stunned. Are you actually *so stupid* that you
believe in Russian lies?

If not, why did you post this shit??? Unbelievable!

br,
KK

He's probably that stupid.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 1.8.2024 23.50, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

In June, the Russian Security Council published an article on its
website criticizing the Finnish occupation administration in Eastern
Karelia during the Continuation War and accusing Finland of genocide. In
addition, Finland is equated with Nazi Germany.

I am stunned. Are you actually *so stupid* that you
believe in Russian lies?

The charges are somewhat skewed, what else is new, but where there's
smoke, there's a fire. Much of this smoke is well known and a lot of it
is true. The Finnskies were no choirboys. They definitely were, if not genociding (although that is a matter of definition), doing ethnic
cleansing during the war. Internment camps (aka concentration camps,
later called "transfer camps", when news of the camps in Germany spread)
for women, children and PoWs with somewhat disturbing death rates, plans
to ethnically cleanse eastern Karelia, a part of Russia that was to be
annexed in addition to the areas lost during the Winter.

Had the Nuzzies won, Karelia would now be a synonym for Gaza.

If not, why did you post this shit??? Unbelievable!

Lol. Because it is in the mews.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

The charges are somewhat skewed, what else is new, but where there's
smoke, there's a fire.

What the fuck? Do you actually live in Finland? You
don't want to meet me on the streets...

Move to fucking Russia, you idiot!

br,
KK

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

jdeluise <jdeluise@gmail.com> wrote:

Why not admit Finns did nasty things in the name of
self-preservation? Your pathetic barroom bully act is gonna get
you nothing but guffaws, Courty.

Yeah, probably the Finns did some nasty things at
certain points in history, but stupid Pelle is
buying the sick Russian lies that Putler is spreading.

"Pelle" means "a bozo" or "a clown" in Finnish language.

He's a real asshole for sure... I cannot believe we
have bastards like Pelle in Finland. He should move
to Moscow ASAP!

br,
KK

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

The Iceberg <iceberg.rules@gmail.com> wrote:

On 02/08/2024 14:56, jdeluise wrote:

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

The charges are somewhat skewed, what else is new, but where there's
smoke, there's a fire.

What the fuck? Do you actually live in Finland? You
don't want to meet me on the streets...

Move to fucking Russia, you idiot!

br,
KK

Why not admit Finns did nasty things in the name of self-preservation?
Your pathetic barroom bully act is gonna get you nothing but guffaws,
Courty.

will you admit the USA is far far worse - Vietnam, destroying the Middle
East etc?

Well, I don't know if you asked me or Pelle, but yes,
USA is far worse than Finland. In addition to sick
wars, there's also the burden of black slavery in
the USA.

It is a bad country to be sure, but we have to rely
on it because Russia and China are unspeakably evil.

So it is the matter of choosing the lesser evil.

br,
KK

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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jdeluise kirjoitti 2.8.2024 klo 16.56:

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

The charges are somewhat skewed, what else is new, but where there's
smoke, there's a fire.

What the fuck? Do you actually live in Finland? You
don't want to meet me on the streets...

Move to fucking Russia, you idiot!

br,
KK

Why not admit Finns did nasty things in the name of self-preservation?
Your pathetic barroom bully act is gonna get you nothing but guffaws,
Courty.

Russia claims that 8000 thousand died. Finns that 4000.
Out of hunger. Also Finnish civilians died of hunger.

Bad crops for two years & war. The coldest winter ever etc. Germany sent
some grain.

https://www.jyrkinen.fi/historia/elintarviketilanne-1941-1942.html

Nothing to do with intentional genocide. But glad that you guys bought
Putin's propaganda and his efforts weren't completely wasted.

Stalin, of course, actually did genocide Ingrian finns during the 20s &
30s & sent them to Siberia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_the_Ingrian_Finns

Also a few thousand American Finns, among others. https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/node/11978

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 3.8.2024 23.44, jdeluise wrote:

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Well, I don't know if you asked me or Pelle, but yes,
USA is far worse than Finland. In addition to sick
wars, there's also the burden of black slavery in
the USA.

It is a bad country to be sure, but we have to rely
on it because Russia and China are unspeakably evil.

So it is the matter of choosing the lesser evil.

That's probably true, Finland is so small and insignificant it's never
had the opportunity to commit massive atrocities.

For a thousand years Finland has been a piece of real estate bandied
around like a beach ball by its neighbours. Nevertheless, that beach
ball had delusions of grandeur and was setting up a big beautiful "Great Finland". "All the Ugric peoples must be brought under Finnish rules are rules".

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3.8.2024 23.11, TT wrote:

jdeluise kirjoitti 2.8.2024 klo 16.56:

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

The charges are somewhat skewed, what else is new, but where there's
smoke, there's a fire.

What the fuck? Do you actually live in Finland? You
don't want to meet me on the streets...

Move to fucking Russia, you idiot!

br,
KK

Why not admit Finns did nasty things in the name of self-preservation?
Your pathetic barroom bully act is gonna get you nothing but guffaws,
Courty.

Russia claims that 8000 thousand died. Finns that 4000.
Out of hunger. Also Finnish civilians died of hunger.

People locked up don't accidentally die of hunger. If you're meaning to
imply the summer campers just suffered what the natives did, you
couldn't be more wrong.

Nothing to do with intentional genocide.

Like I said, "genocide" is a matter of definition. The Serbs in
Srebrenica decimated only a fraction of the people there. And were found
guilty of genocide.

"Intentional"? Can there be any doubt about this. The civilians, mostly children and women, were in "transfer camps" because those that survived
were to be transferred.

Finland was in the early stages of ethnic cleansing. Which was to be
completed when your Nuzzie allies finished Russia off.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 4.8.2024 klo 11.22:

On 3.8.2024 23.11, TT wrote:

jdeluise kirjoitti 2.8.2024 klo 16.56:

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

The charges are somewhat skewed, what else is new, but where
there's smoke, there's a fire.

What the fuck? Do you actually live in Finland? You
don't want to meet me on the streets...

Move to fucking Russia, you idiot!

br,
KK

Why not admit Finns did nasty things in the name of
self-preservation? Your pathetic barroom bully act is gonna get you
nothing but guffaws, Courty.

Russia claims that 8000 thousand died. Finns that 4000.
Out of hunger. Also Finnish civilians died of hunger.

People locked up don't accidentally die of hunger. If you're meaning to
imply the summer campers just suffered what the natives did, you
couldn't be more wrong.

There was probably some war crime going on, yes.
But deaths were mostly due to the rations being similarly small as they
were for Finns while the prisoners were already weak when captured &
diseases playing a role.

It's however easy to understand that Russians would be the last in
feeding line. Also harder to acquire extra food in addition to small
rations when you're captured.

Nothing to do with intentional genocide.

Like I said, "genocide" is a matter of definition. The Serbs in
Srebrenica decimated only a fraction of the people there. And were found guilty of genocide.

You're comparing this with executing people to mass graves.
Wow. Putin's Russian propaganda machine would be proud.

"Intentional"? Can there be any doubt about this. The civilians, mostly children and women, were in "transfer camps" because those that survived
were to be transferred.

Yes, they were to be transferred to other soviet land later on, not
executed & put in mass graves.

4000 died of 24 000.

Finland was in the early stages of ethnic cleansing. Which was to be completed when your Nuzzie allies finished Russia off.

Nazi allies?

Where was the free western world when Russia attacked Finland in Winter
war? No help whatsoever from western governments. Some from Sweden only.

Also, you don't approve plans to export 30k people from Karelia to
Russia but it was apparently perfectly ok for the west to give Finnish
Karelia to Soviet Union in Paris treaty and transfer hundreds of
thousands Karelians elsewhere in Finland.

You really are a great student of Russian propaganda.

Not to forget cutting Finnish access to Arctic Ocean, paying for war reparations for the war Russia waged. Thanks a bunch to Western Allies
for all the help during the war & peace treaty.

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Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 4.8.2024 klo 11.26:

On 3.8.2024 23.44, jdeluise wrote:

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Well, I don't know if you asked me or Pelle, but yes,
USA is far worse than Finland. In addition to sick
wars, there's also the burden of black slavery in
the USA.

It is a bad country to be sure, but we have to rely
on it because Russia and China are unspeakably evil.

So it is the matter of choosing the lesser evil.

That's probably true, Finland is so small and insignificant it's never
had the opportunity to commit massive atrocities.

For a thousand years Finland has been a piece of real estate bandied
around like a beach ball by its neighbours. Nevertheless, that beach
ball had delusions of grandeur and was setting up a big beautiful "Great Finland".

There was some minority support for "Greater Finland" but most Finns
were in favor for taking back the old borders only, including Mannerheim.

Finnish army stopped slightly further from pre-war borders because of
defensive strategic reasons... and refused to advance further with
German army. There's no knowing what would have happened if Germany had
won the war.

In any case you as a Brit are the last person to preach about expansionism.

"All the Ugric peoples must be brought under Finnish rules are
rules".

Ugric?

So Finland wanted to rule Estonian & Hungarian people? lol

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2.8.2024 17.07, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:

jdeluise <jdeluise@gmail.com> wrote:

Why not admit Finns did nasty things in the name of
self-preservation? Your pathetic barroom bully act is gonna get
you nothing but guffaws, Courty.

Yeah, probably the Finns did some nasty things at
certain points in history,

After the bare knuckle ride, that's gracious of you. If you now go back
and read the OP, you'll find that that is in fact pretty much what I
said. I did not say everything the Russian court said is correct ...

but stupid Pelle is
buying the sick Russian lies that Putler is spreading.

... but much is. Judging by your reactions, much more than you would
like to hear. Even though most of the controversies have been settled
years ago.

There still seems to be some knee-jerk defensiveness around these issues
in certain quarters though.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 4.8.2024 14.32, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 4.8.2024 klo 11.26:

On 3.8.2024 23.44, jdeluise wrote:

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Well, I don't know if you asked me or Pelle, but yes,
USA is far worse than Finland. In addition to sick
wars, there's also the burden of black slavery in
the USA.

It is a bad country to be sure, but we have to rely
on it because Russia and China are unspeakably evil.

So it is the matter of choosing the lesser evil.

That's probably true, Finland is so small and insignificant it's
never had the opportunity to commit massive atrocities.

For a thousand years Finland has been a piece of real estate bandied
around like a beach ball by its neighbours. Nevertheless, that beach
ball had delusions of grandeur and was setting up a big beautiful
"Great Finland".

There was some minority support for "Greater Finland" but most Finns
were in favor for taking back the old borders only, including Mannerheim.

"Most Finns" didn't really know what was going on. They were kept in the
dark while the Finnish high command was leading them to take part in Barbarossa. Many did have an idea, though.

What matters is that the Finnskies asked for the Soviet Karelia as a
reward. ANd got it. That includes Mannerheim.

If you exclude from the greater Finland the utterly ridiculous (Estonia,
Kola, ..., lol), Eastern Soviet Kaerlia up to the White Sea basically is it.

Geez, even Pekka Peitsi (Kekkonen) sang the praises of the "three istmus border". Those were the days.

Finnish army stopped slightly further from pre-war borders because of defensive strategic reasons...

They stepped a bit further than "slightly". Would have stepped even
further if they were not over-extended.

The "strategic wisdom" of this all proved to be questionable too.

and refused to advance further with
German army.

Refused to advance further on the Karelian Isthmus against Leningrad.
But not elsewhere. Just look at the maps.

There's no knowing what would have happened if Germany had
won the war.

We know there were plans to cleanse Soviet Karelia of Russkies. The
"transfer camps" were the first step.

Ethnic cleansing comes with mothers milk in some parts of the world.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 4.8.2024 14.16, TT wrote:

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 4.8.2024 klo 11.22:

On 3.8.2024 23.11, TT wrote:

jdeluise kirjoitti 2.8.2024 klo 16.56:

kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

Pelle Svanslös <pelle@svans.los> wrote:

The charges are somewhat skewed, what else is new, but where
there's smoke, there's a fire.

What the fuck? Do you actually live in Finland? You
don't want to meet me on the streets...

Move to fucking Russia, you idiot!

br,
KK

Why not admit Finns did nasty things in the name of
self-preservation? Your pathetic barroom bully act is gonna get you
nothing but guffaws, Courty.

Russia claims that 8000 thousand died. Finns that 4000.
Out of hunger. Also Finnish civilians died of hunger.

People locked up don't accidentally die of hunger. If you're meaning
to imply the summer campers just suffered what the natives did, you
couldn't be more wrong.

There was probably some war crime going on, yes.

Why, thank you.

But deaths were mostly due to the rations being similarly small as they
were for Finns

They were smaller. The "non-nationals" that were allowed to go "free",
received less than ethnic Finns. Those in the summer camps even less.

while the prisoners were already weak when captured &
diseases playing a role.

It's however easy to understand that Russians would be the last in
feeding line. Also harder to acquire extra food in addition to small
rations when you're captured.

Nothing to do with intentional genocide.

Like I said, "genocide" is a matter of definition. The Serbs in
Srebrenica decimated only a fraction of the people there. And were
found guilty of genocide.

You're comparing this with executing people to mass graves.
Wow. Putin's Russian propaganda machine would be proud.

Dying at gunpoint is at least fast. The end result is the same.

So many dorky excuses.

"Intentional"? Can there be any doubt about this. The civilians,
mostly children and women, were in "transfer camps" because those that
survived were to be transferred.

Yes, they were to be transferred to other soviet land later on, not
executed & put in mass graves.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the idea.

4000 died of 24 000.

Peanuts.

Finland was in the early stages of ethnic cleansing. Which was to be
completed when your Nuzzie allies finished Russia off.

Nazi allies?

In Barbarossa, yes.

--
"And off they went, from here to there,
The bear, the bear, and the maiden fair"
-- Traditional

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