On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 7:22:39 AM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 6:29:27 AM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
Op zondag 6 maart 2022 om 03:46:07 UTC+1 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
Our little mermaid wrote:
Bonobos forage for shrimp and high-iodine swamp plants.
Common chimps use sticks to gather seaweed.
Gorillas finger-rake floating hydrocharis/frogbit for high-protein snacks.
Of, course, my boy, as we predicted 30 yrs ago:
google
"ape human evolution mede easy PPT Verhaegen".
When I reported the high proportion in diet of finger-raking of floating hydrocharis to AAT group, MV kept blathering about high-carb swamp grasses. I had to club him repeatedly before he grasped that finger-raking high-protein hydrocharis was
important in a vegetarian species. Lowland gorillas live in swamp forests, your "prediction" holds no water.
Hydrocharis is a preferred food of gorillas eaten all year, 10% of diet even when tree fruits are ripe; while sedges are a fallback food only eaten when no fruits are ripe, due to fibrousness which gorillas do not prefer. The significance is that Pan &
Homo instead get their protein from meat, insect larvae, eggs, nuts, etc.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38068464_Male_and_female_western_gorilla_diet_Preferred_foods_use_of_fallback_resources_and_implications_for_ape_versus_old_world_monkey_foraging_strategies
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.anthropology.paleo/c/n4QyVeEoZnQ/m/2Z-St-S7OgQJ
Hydrocharis chevalieri, Rynchospora corymbosa etc.
Western lowland gorillas nest in swamps:
http://scienceblogs.com/zooillogix/2008/08/are_you_hiding_125000_western.php
Thanks, DD. Does anybody know what plants they're eating there? --Marc
water lily, water hyacinth, some type of
African duckweed perhaps... oh, here's the gold:
http://www.africanconservation.org/dcforum/DCForumID10/41.html
"Gorillas come to Mbeli Bai to feed on the large-leafed,
protein-packed, aquatic plant Hydrocharis chevalieri that grows in the
floating mat of vegetation. Hauling themselves on two legs through
the thick mud, the gorillas wade waist-deep through small streams and
rivulets crisscrossing the bai. Some infants clamber onto their
mothers' shoulders; others, hanging on below their parents' bellies,
risk a dunking in the sludge. Groups may spend two to four hours
dredging up handfuls of the plant, vigorously washing off excess mud
before carefully selecting choice parts to munch from the tangle of
roots, stems, and leaves. All the while, they sink deeper into the
mud until **only their chests and heads are visible**".
[Very good
selection for air sacs here, and vertical floating, even when seated,
the head is upright while the hands are above and in the water --DD]
More here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=african+floating+water+plants&ie=utf-8&oe=utf -8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
:-) Thanks a lot, DD.
You're completely right.
Note "hauling themselves on two legs" cf.bipedal apiths.
Ggogle "Hydrocharis chevalieri" & you soon find gorillas, eg:
"The bai is a preferred feeding site for western lowland gorillas, who eat
the aquatic herbs such as Hydrocharis chevalieri and Rynchospora corymbosa" etc.
Google "Rhynchospora corymbosa" (Scirpus corymbosus) & you find
"Dieta del capibara Hydrochaeris hydrochaeris" etc.
I guess Lucy had very short loops of Henle, like beavers, mopuntain beavers, capibaras, coypus etc.
But perhaps the savanna people still prefer to explain the glossy appearance
of her molar enamel by crushing kudu bones, rather than by "vigorously
washing off excess mud before carefully selecting choice parts to munch from the tangle of roots, stems, and leaves" of frogbit, sedge or cyper plants...
--Marc Verhaegen
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.anthropology.paleo/c/0BKS0P0rw5g/m/OU2AMQP4FDgJ
Ndoki gorillas
Marc Verhaegen
Just to clarify an important point: both Pan species eat occasionally meat, eggs, insects, and are therefore omnivorous. But they are NOT carnivorous, as they diet is mainly vegetarian. Tigers are carnivorous, apes not.
Renato Bender
Of course, Renato, DD meant they're more carnivorous than gorillas.
But did they develop hunting colobus monkeys after they split from our ancestors, or before? In any case they hunt monkeys with large canines,
without tools, on 4 legs & in the trees, the opposite of what the savanna hypothesis supposes.
--marc
Chimps don't sit in swamp eating Hydrocharis etc., instead they are
carnivorous and more dry-adapted, note that females have large estral
swellings.
http://books.google.com/books?id=iGfjJ4lKb1IC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=gorilla+ndo
ki+sitting+water&source=bl&ots=6I-aODjID_&sig=ZeQF09bKSzsj0W_nAF_hpSiQeuM&hl=
en&ei=3HzNSaCrBY6-tAPM09WgAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result
<http://books.google.com/books?id=iGfjJ4lKb1IC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&d
q=gorilla+ndoki+sitting+water&source=bl&ots=6I-aODjID_&sig=ZeQF09
bKSzsj0W_nAF_hpSiQeuM&hl=en&ei=3HzNSaCrBY6-tAPM09WgAw&sa=X&oi
=book_result&resnum=5>
"This species (Hydrocharis) is found in large patches in deep swamps, and is >> impossible to feed on without sitting in the water, a habit that seems to be >> avoided by these chimpanzees. Thus swamp vegetation, occupying 15-20% of the >> study area, is used almost exclusively by gorillas."
Swamps of forest bais with few animals (no fish/meat so few crocs?) provide >> sufficient protein to gorillas. Chimps get their protein from dry sources, or
shallow stream insects.
Geladas: long tail, no air sac, dry green grass sit-foraging
Wetland gorillas: no tail, air sac, floating AHV, sit-foraging
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1134/is_8_108/ai_56183369
"Through their efforts, the Nouabale-Ndoki National Park was created there in
1993, and in this pristine forest sanctuary, we are finally getting an
opportunity to observe the western lowland gorilla's social life. Within the >> park is a large clearing, probably created by elephants, that has become a >> favorite meeting place and "salad bar" for gorillas, allowing us to observe >> them in the open for the first time.
Mbeli Bai (bai is a Pygmy word for "swampy clearing," pronounced "buy")
covers almost twenty-five acres and is rich in aquatic plants of the sedge >> family. The bai may seem an unlikely place to find large congregations of
gorillas; less than fifteen years ago, zoologists beheved gorillas avoided >> contact with water whenever possible. Yet at Mbeli, we commonly see all but >> the youngest individuals sitting waist- or chest-deep in water as they feed >> on the lush vegetation. Gorillas also use the partially aquatic habitat to >> enhance their displays. On dry land, silverbacks (fully adult males
characterized by a "saddle" pattern of silver hair) frequently slap the
ground with their massive hands in an intimidation display that relies mostly
on the sharp sound for its effect. Near the water's edge at Mbeli, they use a
similar hand-slap technique to send great plumes of spray toward one another.
In addition to creating this impressive visual effect, some males have been >> seen leaping into deep water, creating explosive splashes and waves. This
behavior has its risks, however. We once saw a male jump into water that was >> deeper than he expected and become completely submerged. Apparently chastened
by his miscalculation, he then had to struggle awkwardly to reach the stream >> bank.
Gorillas used the swamp at Mondika to feed on both aquatic herbs &
succulent fruit. Freshwater aquatic plants have been shown to contain higher mineral concentrations (esp.sodium) relative to terrestrial plants in the
area. It has been suggested that sodium hunger in gorillas is linked to
feeding on aquatic plants [Kuroda et al.1996; Magliocca & Gautier-Hion,
2002], as in other taxa, eg, moose [Botkin et al.1973], black & white
Colobus monkeys [Oates, 1978] & barasingha [Moe 1994].
At other sites, gorillas visit Œbais¹ regularly, but infrequently (less than twice a month on average [Stokes this issue]). While there, they spend virtually all their time feeding on aquatic herbs [Magliocca et al.2002].
A novel finding of this study is the important role swamps (particularly
swamp fruit) may play in gorilla foraging strategy. At Mondika, gorillas
also fed on a variety of aquatic herbs, most notably Hydrocharis chevalieri, which is rel.high in protein & sodium [Kuroda et al.1996]. However ripe
fruit, particularly 2 spp of succulent fruit that were not available outside the swamp, appear to account for the much greater frequency of swamp use at
the site. Swamps were not visited more frequently when ripe fruit or
preferred herbs were less available in terra firma forest, as would be predicted if gorillas were seeking high-protein herbs or an additional carbohydrate source during periods of resource scarcity. Nor did the swamps appear to be used as a staple source of aquatic herbs, since they were used unevenly throughout the year. By traveling to the swamps, the gorillas
incurred a substantial travel cost (50 % greater than on non-swamp days). Nutritional data are not currently available to test the benefits of
swamp use at Mondika, but future investigation will determine whether the particularly high sugar content of fruit, in addition to the higher mineral content of herbs, contributes to the swamp¹s great attraction for gorillas. Swamps are likely to provide a variety of resources that are not available elsewhere , they may contribute to unusu.high gorilla density in these
areas, as reported for other swamp forests in the region [Fay 1997, Fay & Agnagna 1992].
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