On Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 11:08:12 AM UTC-7, john_thomas_maxson wrote:

A little perspective from a project engineer is often helpful
in understanding the big picture. Even Thiokol had one:

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PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSION ON THE
SPACE SHUTTLE CHALLENGER ACCIDENT
- - -
FRIDAY, April 11, 1986
- - -
INTERVIEW WITH
BOYD C. BRINTON, MANAGER,
SPACE BOOSTER PROJECT ENGINEERING,
MORTON THIOKOL CORPORATION,
WASATCH DIVISION, WASATCH, UTAH

Marshall Space Flight Center
Huntsville, Alabama

Interview conducted by:
PATRICK JAMES MALEY
Staff Investigator

P R O C E E D I N G S

MR. MALEY: This is Patrick James Maley, staff investigator for
the Presidential Commission an [sic] 51-L. The interviewee is Boyd
Brinton, B-r-i-n-t-o-n. The place of the interview is Marshall Space
Flight Center. The date is April 11, 1986. The time is approximately
7 a.m.
Mr. Brinton, if you would go ahead and just identify yourself and
give us your current job title at Morton Thiokol.
MR. BRINTON: Okay. As Pat said, my name is Boyd C. Brinton.
I am presently manager of the space booster project engineer [sic] at
Morton Thiokol.
MR. MALEY: In Utah?
MR. BRINTON: In Wasatch Division, Utah.
MR. MALEY: Right. Now, how long have you been employed at
Morton Thiokol?
MR. BRINTON: Since August 1958, and that's 27 or 28 years.
MR. MALEY: Okay. I don't think I've talked to anybody at
Thiokol who's been under 25 years. Sounds like a good -- not too
much turnover out there.
During that period of time, when were you first associated with the shuttle program?
MR. BRINTON: I scribbled down some notes at one time. Let me
see if I can find them. I started out on the shuttle program very early
in the program, before it was really defined. I was a supervisor of a preliminary design group, and we, Thiokol, got requests to do some preliminary designs for a vehicle that at that time was not even firmly identified as a space shuttle.
And we did preliminary designs and subsequently presented them
to all of the various prime contractors, to Boeing, Rockwell, and some
of those people. That was approximately 15 years ago.
MR. MALEY: Okay.
MR. BRINTON: Before contracts were issued or before any study
contracts were concerned.
MR. MALEY: Was that a design of the solid rocket booster or of
the actual orbiter?
MR. BRINTON: That was a design of the solid rocket boosters,
or boosters.
MR. MALEY: Okay. And since that time, what activities have you
filled in the solid rocket booster program?
MR. BRINTON: I just found my notes.
MR. MALEY: Good.
MR. BRINTON: From approximately August 1958 -- and I tell
you, these are from my memory. I could go back and research the
record.
MR. MALEY: That's fine.
MR. BRINTON: But approximately August 1958 until 1971, I was
doing systems analysis and preliminary design work. In 1971, we
received the space shuttle contract and I became manager of the nozzle development for the space shuttle program in the program office. At
that time, both project engineering and program management were in
the same office, and I wore both hats.
In 1978 or [sic] 1983 I became manager of the solid rocket motor development department, and then in 1983 to I believe March 1984 I
was director of the SRM project. And then in 1984 we reorganized
and split up the project engineering and program management, and I
became the manager of the project engineering group.
MR. MALEY: Okay. How many people worked under you?
MR. BRINTON: Directly, right now?
MR. MALEY: Right.
MR. BRINTON: Well, I think it's 32, something like that.
MR. MALEY: Okay. And you primarily work at the Wasatch
Division?
MR. BRINTON: Yes.
MR. MALEY: And you're currently down here for what reason?
MR. BRINTON: Marshall has asked that there be a contractor representative in the HOSC when each flight goes up, and since they
made that request, two or three years ago, I have had that
responsibility, while a time or two I've delegated it to one of my
department managers.
I am normally at the HOSC for the launches, and I was for 51-L.
And I have been here near continuously since then. I've been home
once.
MALEY: Okay.

... ... ...

MR. BRINTON: ... And in all the discussions that I've been
involved in -- and maybe these are some of the things that I have
learned since the investigation, but all of the discussions that I have
ever been in -- and it was my firm belief before the incident, and I understand I'm not alone in this, but it was my firm belief that if there were an O-ring problem, it would occur immediately on ignition or
during the first half second or less, and that there would have been
the failure at that time.
And so it was -- looking back on it, it was my belief that we had
a redundant seal, and that I couldn't imagine or hadn't thought about,
one of the two, the possibility that the seal -- that an O-ring would
seal and then at some --
MR. MALEY: Later point.
MR. BRINTON: -- later point fail. And all of the discussions that
I was in as part of the O-ring redesign reviews and that sort of thing
was all addressing what was happening or what would happen in the
first few hundred milliseconds.

... ... ...

MR. BRINTON: As we saw continued erosion both in the case
to nozzle joint and the case joints, this was addressed at every flight readiness review before every flight. There were some quite detailed analyses done to determine the mechanism, you know, what was
going on.
These analyses said that it was a self-limiting type phenomenon.
That is -- in order to have -- do you understand what I said?
MR. MALEY: No, I was about to --
MR. BRINTON: I could tell by your face, I wasn't sure that I was communicating with you.
MR. MALEY: Self-limiting phenomenon.
MR. BRINTON: What the analysis said and still does, is that if
an O-ring erodes it has to erode because hot gas impinges on it and
erodes it. And in order for that hot gas to impinge on it, there has to
be a flow of hot gas. And if there is a flow of hot gas, there has to
be some place for that gas to flow. And so at motor ignition, there
is a small volume around the O-ring, and only enough gas will flow
and impinge on the O-ring to fill that small volume, and so there will
not be a lot of gas that passes.
MR. MALEY: Just enough?
MR. BRINTON: Well, there will be enough gas that might flow
through a hole in the putty and impinge on the O-ring to fill the
volumes that are behind it.
MR. MALEY: Okay.
MR. BRINTON: And those volumes are small.
MR. MALEY: All right.
MR. BRINTON: And as soon as those volumes are filled --
MR. MALEY: It equalizes.
MR. BRINTON: -- the pressure equalizes and there's no more
flow.
MR. MALEY: Okay.
MR. BRINTON: And so it's self-limiting. And there were
analyses done and dimensions taken to see how large that volume
possibly could be.
And I wish I knew what happened on 51-L, but that analysis
was at least partially right, because if there was initial blow-by and erosion it did in fact seal, just like the analysis said. It was self- limiting.
Maybe it had done enough damage that it broke out 58 seconds
later. Maybe something else happens at 58 seconds. I sat in
meetings all day yesterday while a lot of people discussed that, and
there wasn't anybody that stood up and said, this is what happened.

... ... ...

MR. MALEY: So there are a lot of theories as to what happened
later in flight.

... ... ...

MR. BRINTON: ... in the early 1985 time period ...
... ...
MR. BRINTON: But at that time period I was the manager of
space booster project engineering. I had just started. Roger
Boisjoly was a department manager, and he had total responsibility
for the case and the joints.
MR. MALEY: Okay.
MR. BRINTON: And he was working on it at that time.
MR. MALEY: All right.
MR. BRINTON: Then, let's see, in about August Roger had
gone back to design engineering then, and he came to me and I
think went to Bob Lund about the same time and indicated that he
felt we ought to get a group of people together and start looking at
the design, and again the nozzle design. ... ... ...

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Posted by John Thomas Maxson - www.mission51l.com

Do you know where I could find the original from this interview? Boyd Brinton was my Grandfather.

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