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  • In northern Europe, a backlash against English is under way

    From ltlee1@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 14 06:39:23 2023
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has also prompted
    controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not die out, since
    new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven University of
    Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "

    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot.
    AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to bmoore on Mon Aug 14 08:15:15 2023
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:57:59 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 6:39:26 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has also prompted
    controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not die out,
    since new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven University of
    Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "
    So the "backlash" is against the lack of use of the native language. It's disingenuous to call it "against English".
    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot.
    AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?
    It's already converged.

    Obvious a split between the average people and the elites.
    Elites are benefited by their knowledge of the English language. Many average people, in contrast,
    experience the lost of culture and identity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bmoore@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 14 07:57:57 2023
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 6:39:26 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has also prompted
    controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not die out, since
    new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven University of
    Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "

    So the "backlash" is against the lack of use of the native language. It's disingenuous to call it "against English".

    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot. AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?

    It's already converged.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bmoore@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 14 08:23:50 2023
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 8:15:17 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:57:59 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 6:39:26 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has also prompted
    controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not die out,
    since new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven University of
    Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "
    So the "backlash" is against the lack of use of the native language. It's disingenuous to call it "against English".
    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot.
    AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?
    It's already converged.
    Obvious a split between the average people and the elites.
    Elites are benefited by their knowledge of the English language.

    Nothing wrong with learning another language.

    Many average people, in contrast, experience the lost of culture and identity.

    Evidence?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to bmoore on Mon Aug 14 10:53:33 2023
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 11:23:52 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 8:15:17 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:57:59 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 6:39:26 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has also
    prompted controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not die out,
    since new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven University of
    Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "
    So the "backlash" is against the lack of use of the native language. It's disingenuous to call it "against English".
    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot.
    AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?
    It's already converged.
    Obvious a split between the average people and the elites.
    Elites are benefited by their knowledge of the English language.
    Nothing wrong with learning another language.
    Many average people, in contrast, experience the lost of culture and identity.
    Evidence?

    Currently, “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch.”
    What next?

    Why white Americans don't want a brown America?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bmoore@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 14 18:00:04 2023
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:53:36 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 11:23:52 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 8:15:17 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:57:59 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 6:39:26 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has also
    prompted controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not die out,
    since new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven University of
    Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "
    So the "backlash" is against the lack of use of the native language. It's disingenuous to call it "against English".
    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot.
    AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?
    It's already converged.
    Obvious a split between the average people and the elites.
    Elites are benefited by their knowledge of the English language.
    Nothing wrong with learning another language.
    Many average people, in contrast, experience the lost of culture and identity.
    Evidence?
    Currently, “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch.”
    What next?

    Why white Americans don't want a brown America?

    What on earth are you talking about? It's quite unclear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to bmoore on Tue Aug 15 03:10:33 2023
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:00:07 PM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:53:36 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 11:23:52 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 8:15:17 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:57:59 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 6:39:26 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has also
    prompted controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not die
    out, since new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven University
    of Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "
    So the "backlash" is against the lack of use of the native language. It's disingenuous to call it "against English".
    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot.
    AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?
    It's already converged.
    Obvious a split between the average people and the elites.
    Elites are benefited by their knowledge of the English language.
    Nothing wrong with learning another language.
    Many average people, in contrast, experience the lost of culture and identity.
    Evidence?
    Currently, “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch.”
    What next?

    Why white Americans don't want a brown America?
    What on earth are you talking about? It's quite unclear.

    Please specify what you don't understand or don't agree.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bmoore@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 15 07:58:53 2023
    On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:10:35 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:00:07 PM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:53:36 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 11:23:52 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 8:15:17 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:57:59 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 6:39:26 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has also
    prompted controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not die
    out, since new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven
    University of Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "
    So the "backlash" is against the lack of use of the native language. It's disingenuous to call it "against English".
    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot.
    AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?
    It's already converged.
    Obvious a split between the average people and the elites.
    Elites are benefited by their knowledge of the English language.
    Nothing wrong with learning another language.
    Many average people, in contrast, experience the lost of culture and identity.
    Evidence?
    Currently, “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch.”
    What next?

    Why white Americans don't want a brown America?
    What on earth are you talking about? It's quite unclear.
    Please specify what you don't understand or don't agree.

    What does lack of Dutch speakers have to do with white/brown Americans?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ltlee1@21:1/5 to bmoore on Tue Aug 15 11:46:37 2023
    On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 10:58:56 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:10:35 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:00:07 PM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:53:36 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 11:23:52 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 8:15:17 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:57:59 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 6:39:26 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has
    also prompted controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not
    die out, since new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven
    University of Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "
    So the "backlash" is against the lack of use of the native language. It's disingenuous to call it "against English".
    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot.
    AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?
    It's already converged.
    Obvious a split between the average people and the elites.
    Elites are benefited by their knowledge of the English language.
    Nothing wrong with learning another language.
    Many average people, in contrast, experience the lost of culture and identity.
    Evidence?
    Currently, “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch.”
    What next?

    Why white Americans don't want a brown America?
    What on earth are you talking about? It's quite unclear.
    Please specify what you don't understand or don't agree.
    What does lack of Dutch speakers have to do with white/brown Americans?

    Universal truth about human nature.
    Culture based identity is universal. Language is the front and center of most cultures. Besides language,
    ethnicity also loom large in cultural identity.

    In Dutch, more than one third of courses were taught with non-Dutch, or foreign languages. Hence the
    announcement that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in
    Dutch. Similarly White American do not want too many non-White. In the US, non-white population is
    projected to become the majority. In response, many white Americans do not like the situation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bmoore@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 16 07:25:50 2023
    On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:46:39 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 10:58:56 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:10:35 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 9:00:07 PM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:53:36 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 11:23:52 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 8:15:17 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:57:59 AM UTC-4, bmoore wrote:
    On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 6:39:26 AM UTC-7, ltlee1 wrote:
    "CALL IT, AS the Danes do, a luksusproblem, a luxury problem. Many citizens of Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden are fluent in English and often impress tourists with their command of the language. This aptitude has
    also prompted controversy, however, as universities have become excellent, international institutions offering courses taught mostly—or even entirely—in English.

    Some citizens of the Netherlands and Nordic countries wonder what space will be left for their national languages if their flagship universities increasingly do not teach in it. Linguists call it “domain loss”. The language does not
    die out, since new generations of children continue to be brought up with it, but speakers use it in fewer academic contexts.

    In June Robbert Dijkgraaf, minister of education in the Netherlands, announced that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in Dutch. University leaders took it badly. The head of the Eindhoven
    University of Technology has said that “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch,” citing artificial intelligence as an example. (The Dutch government subsequently fell, leaving the policy in limbo.) "
    So the "backlash" is against the lack of use of the native language. It's disingenuous to call it "against English".
    National languages and hence national identities would be the trouble spot.
    AI is far from perfect instant translation. Hence the dream of EU as a unified political and cultural entity is far from realizing.

    Could the world converge on one language?
    It's already converged.
    Obvious a split between the average people and the elites. Elites are benefited by their knowledge of the English language.
    Nothing wrong with learning another language.
    Many average people, in contrast, experience the lost of culture and identity.
    Evidence?
    Currently, “for a number of courses we can’t even find professors who can speak Dutch.”
    What next?

    Why white Americans don't want a brown America?
    What on earth are you talking about? It's quite unclear.
    Please specify what you don't understand or don't agree.
    What does lack of Dutch speakers have to do with white/brown Americans?
    Universal truth about human nature.
    Culture based identity is universal. Language is the front and center of most cultures. Besides language,
    ethnicity also loom large in cultural identity.

    In Dutch, more than one third of courses were taught with non-Dutch, or foreign languages. Hence the
    announcement that at least two-thirds of teaching in undergraduate programmes would have to be in
    Dutch. Similarly White American do not want too many non-White. In the US, non-white population is
    projected to become the majority. In response, many white Americans do not like the situation.

    That's a stretch, comparing the two situations.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)