XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d
On 1/17/2025 7:00 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
Bi-valve Mollusk <Bi-valve_Mollusk@riptear.com> wrote in news:vmec8k$6e0e$1@dont-email.me:
On 1/17/2025 2:29 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
Bi-valve Mollusk <Bi-valve_Mollusk@riptear.com> wrote in
news:vme5nr$3ieq $2@dont-email.me:
On 1/17/2025 12:46 PM, Lee wrote:
Should Federal Minimum Wage Be Raised
Above $7.25? Trump's Treasury Pick:
'No Sir'
He's right.
Conservatives: Young people should save
money for college like I did.
True statement.
Also Conservtives: Keep the wages for
young people so low they cannot possibly
save any money for anything.
The only person I hear saying that is you.
Conservatives complain about high
prices that prevent saving money AND
complain that young people aren't
saving money.
At the same time.
Do explain.
Just stop with this bullshit. Labor economists are virtually unanimous that an effective (*) minimum wage reduces employment among the young and/or low-skilled. [(*) "effective" means the legal minimum wage is above what would otherwise be the market-determined wage for covered workers.] If the market-determined average wage for low-skilled young people would be, say, $15 per hour, but a legal minimum wage of $20 is set by the government, what happens? Answer: fewer young low-skilled people have jobs. Employers stop hiring
any new people, and they lay off a lot of the people to whom they were paying $15 – $19.99. That's what happens. How are those young people better off with a
fictional minimum wage of $20, when they're now earning *zero* dollars per hour?
But here's the part that the bleeding hearts don't realize: only a very tiny number of people are actually impacted by the minimum wage. The BLS — the very
same BLS that produces overall employment numbers under Biden that Holman and Lee *justifiably* extol — also produces statistics on minimum wage workers. It's
in a set of reports called "Characteristics of minimum wage workers." The latest
figures are for 2023. The data are collated into various tables, all of which can be found here:
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2023/ Before looking at individual tables, we first need to note that there are categories for "At or below minimum wage," broken down additionally into "at" and "below." But how can there be "below" minimum wage, if it's a minimum wage? Answer: all kinds of businesses are exempt from minimum wage laws, by legislative intent. Among them are small farms, seasonal amusement/recreational businesses, various nonprofits, and others.
Now let's look at some of the individual tables.
Table 1. Wage and salary workers paid hourly rates with earnings at or below the
prevailing federal minimum wage, by selected characteristics, 2023 annual averages
_Numbers in thousands_
Total, age 16 and older, paid hourly wage: 80,538
Total paid at or below minimum: 869
Total age 16-24 paid hourly wage: 16,591
Total age 16-24 at or below minimum: 386
_Percentages of hourly workers at or below minimum_
Total, 16 years and older: 1.1%
16 years and older, at minimum: 0.1%
16 years and older, below minimum: 1.0%
Total, age 16-24: 2.3%
16-24, at minimum: 0.3%
16-24, below minimum: 2.0%
So, what does this tell us? First, very few people as a percentage of the labor force are earning at or below the minimum wage. Second, of those who are, they are *predominantly* young people with low skill levels who are just starting out
working. Their wages will rise as they acquire skills and education. It is simply *not* the case that there are lots of people age 30+ who are earning minimum wage. Now, watch: Holman or Lee or both will produce some "anecdotes" about people in their late 30s and older working two minimum wage jobs in order to "feed a family." Don't fall for it.
Now, on to the next point. Those numbers above are for the country as a whole. In fact, there are 34 states that have minimum wages set *higher* than the federal minimum wage. As you would expect, those are mostly the blue (civilized)
states. So now we'll look at:
Table 3. Wage and salary workers paid hourly rates with earnings at or below the
prevailing federal minimum wage, by state, 2023 annual averages
Before getting into the numbers, I will note that there are five shithole states
that do not have a state minimum wage; the minimum wage in those states is the federal minimum. So my methodology is to select two shithole states with no state minimum; two shithole states with a minimum above the federal minimum; and
two civilized states with a minimum above the federal minimum. In the first group, I have Mississippi and South Carolina ($7.25, federal); in the second, I have Florida ($13) and Missouri ($13.75); and in the third, I have California ($16.50) and Colorado ($14.81). Note: the state numbers are not broken down by age (or sex or race/ethnicity). Note 2: for states with a minimum exceeding the federal minimum, the numbers apply to the higher state minimum.
_Numbers in thousands_
_Mississippi_
Total paid hourly wage: 686
Total paid at or below minimum: 9 pct of total: 1.3%
Total at minimum: 2
Total below minimum: 7
_South Carolina_
Total paid hourly wage: 1,222
Total paid at or below minimum: 17 pct of total: 1.4%
Total at minimum: 5
Total below minimum: 12
_Florida_
Total paid hourly wage: 4,975
Total paid at or below minimum: 44 pct of total: 0.9%
Total at minimum: 0
Total below minimum: 44
_Missouri__
Total paid hourly wage: 1,687
Total paid at or below minimum: 18 (rounded) pct of total: 1.0%
Total at minimum: 2
Total below minimum: 17
_California_
Total paid hourly wage: 9,455
Total paid at or below minimum: 48 pct of total: 0.5%
Total at minimum: 4
Total below minimum: 44
_Colorado_
Total paid hourly wage: 1,336
Total paid at or below minimum: 11 pct of total: 0.8%
Total at minimum: 0
Total below minimum: 11
_Percentages of hourly workers at or below minimum_
_Mississippi_
Total at or below minimum: 1.4%
at minimum: 0.3%
below minimum: 1.1%
_South Carolina_
Total at or below minimum: 1.4%
at minimum: 0.4%
below minimum: 1.0%
_Florida_
Total at or below minimum: 0.9%
at minimum: 0.0%
below minimum: 0.9%
_Missouri_
Total at or below minimum: 1.1%
at minimum: 0.1%
below minimum: 1.0%
_California_
Total at or below minimum: 0.5%
at minimum: 0.0%
below minimum: 0.5%
_Colorado_
Total at or below minimum: 0.8%
at minimum: 0.0%
below minimum: 0.8%
What does all this tell us? First and foremost, it tells us that only a very small percentage of workers, nearly all of them young and low-skilled, depend on
minimum wage jobs. Second, it tells us that in more civilized states, most hourly workers are *already* earning well above the federal minimum, so raising that will have negligible impact.
So now what are we going to see? We're going to see confirmation that my posts about ideologues preferring cheap easy fiction (falsehoods) to complex, costly truth, applies to both left and right. We're going to see the group leftists continuing to insist that the minimum wage does good (it does not), and that *millions* of poor, downtrodden adults are having to work two minimum wage jobs late into their adult lives to support their families (they are not). Ideologues
on both sides prefer fiction to truth; it's just more prevalent among right-wingnuts.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)