• Israel does not have a right to exist

    From Rudy Canoza@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 27 14:29:58 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d

    States Don’t Have a Right to Exist. People Do.
    By Peter Beinart
    Jan. 27, 2025, 5:01 a.m. ET

    In today’s Washington, which seethes with partisan acrimony, Democrats and Republicans at least agree on this: Israel has a right to exist. This right has been affirmed by the Republican House speaker, Mike Johnson, and his Democratic antagonist, the House minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries; by the Biden administration’s secretary of state, Antony Blinken, and his Republican successor, Marco Rubio; by Donald Trump’s new secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, and by the Senate Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer. In 2023, the House affirmed Israel’s right to exist by a vote of 412-1.

    This is not the way Washington politicians generally talk about other countries.
    They usually start with the rights of individuals, and then ask how well a given
    state represents the people under its control. If America’s leaders prioritized
    the lives of all those who live between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, it would become clear that asking if Israel has a right to exist is the wrong question. The better question is: Does Israel, as a Jewish state, adequately protect the rights of all the individuals under its dominion?

    The answer is no.

    Consider this scenario: If Scotland legally seceded, or Britons abolished the monarchy, the United Kingdom would no longer be united nor a kingdom. Britain as
    we know it would cease to exist. A different state would replace it. Mr. Rubio, Mr. Schumer and their colleagues would accept this transformation as legitimate because they believe that states should be based on the consent of the governed.

    America’s leaders make this point most emphatically when discussing America’s
    foes. They often call for replacing oppressive regimes with states that better meet liberal democratic norms. In 2017, John Bolton, who later became a national
    security adviser in the first Trump administration, argued that “the declared policy of the United States should be the overthrow of the mullahs’ regime in Tehran.” In 2020, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called the People’s Republic of
    China a “Marxist-Leninist regime” with a “bankrupt totalitarian ideology.”These
    U.S. officials weren’t urging these countries just to replace one particular leader, but to change their political system — thus, in essence, reconstituting
    the state. In the case of the People’s Republic of China, which signifies Communist Party dominance, or Islamic Republic of Iran, which denotes clerical rule, this would most likely require changing the country’s official name.

    In 2020, Secretary Pompeo declared in a speech that America’s founders believed
    that “government exists not to diminish or cancel the individual’s rights at the
    whims of those in power, but to secure them.” Do states that deny individual rights have a “right to exist” in their current form? The implication of Mr.
    Pompeo’s words is that they do not.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/27/opinion/israel-state-jewish.html?searchResultPosition=1

    Israel does not have a "right" to exist. No state does. The U.S. does not have an interest in preserving a genocidal state.

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  • From Rudy Canoza@21:1/5 to Dawn Flood on Mon Jan 27 20:06:02 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d

    On 1/27/2025 4:46 PM, Dawn Flood wrote:
    On 1/27/2025 4:29 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
    States Don’t Have a Right to Exist. People Do.

    Israel does not have a "right" to exist. No state does. The U.S. does not have
    an interest in preserving a genocidal state.

    This is just nuts.  It's like asking if one should live in Illinois versus Iowa;
    what difference does such make?

    It's not the least bit like that.


    It's just a bunch of land, a large segment of which is going to be sea-bottom in
    a century or two anyways.  What is there to fight over here??  The religious
    musings of iron age peoples???

    What there is to fight over is Israel engaging in genocide.

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  • From Skeeter@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 28 05:01:02 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d

    In article <KIYlP.1440996$oR74.567753@fx16.iad>, rudy@phil.hendrie.con
    says...

    On 1/27/2025 4:46 PM, Dawn Flood wrote:
    On 1/27/2025 4:29 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
    States Don?t Have a Right to Exist. People Do.

    Israel does not have a "right" to exist. No state does. The U.S. does not have
    an interest in preserving a genocidal state.

    This is just nuts. It's like asking if one should live in Illinois versus Iowa;
    what difference does such make?

    It's not the least bit like that.


    It's just a bunch of land, a large segment of which is going to be sea-bottom in
    a century or two anyways. What is there to fight over here?? The religious
    musings of iron age peoples???

    What there is to fight over is Israel engaging in genocide.

    Nope, just pay back.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Edward McGuire@21:1/5 to Dawn Flood on Tue Jan 28 18:58:22 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d

    On 2025-01-28, Dawn Flood <Dawn.Belle.Flood@gmail.com> wrote:
    It's like asking if one should live in Illinois versus Iowa; what difference does such make?

    Two feuding farmers lived across the Iowa-Illinois border from one another.

    One day, the Illinois farmer threw a stick of dynamite over the border into the Iowa farmer's yard. The Iowa farmer picked it up, lit it, and threw it back.

    That's the difference right there.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Rudy Canoza@21:1/5 to Dawn Flood on Tue Jan 28 12:15:08 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d

    On 1/28/2025 11:38 AM, Dawn Flood wrote:
    On 1/27/2025 10:06 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
    On 1/27/2025 4:46 PM, Dawn Flood wrote:
    On 1/27/2025 4:29 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
    States Don’t Have a Right to Exist. People Do.

    Israel does not have a "right" to exist. No state does. The U.S. does not >>>> have an interest in preserving a genocidal state.

    This is just nuts.  It's like asking if one should live in Illinois versus >>> Iowa; what difference does such make?

    It's not the least bit like that.


    It's just a bunch of land, a large segment of which is going to be sea-bottom
    in a century or two anyways.

    That is bullshit.

      What is there to fight over here??  The religious musings of iron age peoples???

    What there is to fight over is Israel engaging in genocide.

    Not starting a war by murdering innocent civilians may be an incentive to avoid
    the other side retaliating, at least until the point where third parties start
    accusing the initial aggressor of being the recipient of genocidal actions by the responding armies of the initial victims.
    Israel has been engaged in genocide against Palestinians starting decades before
    the Hamas attack in October 2023.

    You're fleeing from addressing the principal point: that Israel has no "right" to exist as a state — in particular, as an expressly Jewish state.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Siri Cruise@21:1/5 to Dawn Flood on Tue Jan 28 12:09:04 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d

    Dawn Flood wrote:
    Not starting a war by murdering innocent civilians may be an
    incentive to avoid the other side retaliating, at least until the
    point where third parties start accusing the initial aggressor of
    being the recipient of genocidal actions by the responding armies
    of the initial victims.

    Anyone who has been paying attention is well aware of Israelis
    murderring Palestinians. I have never been burned by WP. I have
    heard it is quite nasty.

    --
    Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
    'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
    The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.2 / \
    of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

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  • From jojo@21:1/5 to Siri Cruise on Wed Jan 29 01:21:33 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d

    Siri Cruise wrote:
    Dawn Flood wrote:
    Not starting a war by murdering innocent civilians may be an
    incentive to avoid the other side retaliating, at least until
    the point where third parties start accusing the initial
    aggressor of being the recipient of genocidal actions by the
    responding armies of the initial victims.

    Anyone who has been paying attention is well aware of Israelis
    murderring Palestinians. I have never been burned by WP. I have
    heard it is quite nasty.


    wp? wordpress?

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  • From NoBody@21:1/5 to chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com on Wed Jan 29 07:19:06 2025
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d

    On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 12:09:04 -0800, Siri Cruise
    <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> wrote:

    Dawn Flood wrote:
    Not starting a war by murdering innocent civilians may be an
    incentive to avoid the other side retaliating, at least until the
    point where third parties start accusing the initial aggressor of
    being the recipient of genocidal actions by the responding armies
    of the initial victims.

    Anyone who has been paying attention is well aware of Israelis
    murderring Palestinians. I have never been burned by WP. I have
    heard it is quite nasty.

    If only Hamas hadn't taken those hostages...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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