XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.society.liberalism, alt.atheism
XPost: alt.fun, alt.politics.democrats.d
On 2/21/2025 12:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-02-21 12:03, AlleyCat wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 23:28:14 -0700, Gronk says...
AlleyCat wrote:
Fourteenth Amendment
Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the
jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State
wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor >> shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due
process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the
equal protection of the laws.
No mention of the words "black" or "slave"
No mention of lawn mowers and maids, either. So... who DID it pertain to? >>> "All persons born or naturalized in the United States"
Nope.
Ex-slaves, ONLY.
Indians?
Nope.
Yup.
Nope... not when it was written, faggot.
Stay in context, or stay in "ignore The Faggots" bin.
Aaaah fuck it.
Back you go.
The AUTHOR of the 14th said:
'This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I
regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits
of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural
law and national law a citizen of the United States.'
Why did you omit the rest of the quote? Here is what Jacob Howard, author of the
citizenship clause, said:
This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I
regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within
the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction,
is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United
States. *This will not, of course, include persons born in the United*
*States who are foreigners, aliens,* who belong to the families of
ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the
United States, but will include every other class of persons.
You left it off because you're dishonest.
Here's what Lyman Trumbull, chairman of the senate judiciary committee where the
amendment was being debated, had to say:
The provision is, that 'all persons born in the United States, and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.' That means
'subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.' What do we mean by
'complete jurisdiction thereof?' Not owing allegiance to anybody
else. That is what it means.
An alien who enters the U.S. illegally and gives birth here is *not* subject to the complete jurisdiction of the United States, and therefore her U.S.-born child is not as well.
The citizenship clause of the amendment replaced that of the Civil Rights Act of
1866, which had a slightly different wording:
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled, That all persons
born in the United States and *not subject to any foreign power*,
excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of
the United States.
An alien in the U.S. who just happens to give birth here *is* subject to a foreign power, and *therefore* so is her U.S.-born child.
Automatic /jus soli/ birthright citizenship is bad policy and is not what the adopters of the citizenship clause of the 14th amendment intended. The only reason we have it is due to a Supreme Court in 1898 that didn't know what the fuck they were bullshitting about, especially the justice, Horace Gray, who wrote the atrocity of an opinion.
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc_22_2/tsc_22_2_buchanan.shtml
Gray simply did not know what the fuck he was doing, and he contradicted *himself* in his opinion in Elk v. Wilkins. This is what Gray wrote in Elk:
This section [citizenship clause of 14th amendment] contemplates two
sources of citizenship, and two sources only: birth and
naturalization. The persons declared to be citizens are 'all persons
born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the
jurisdiction thereof.' The evident meaning of these last words is,
not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of
the United States, but completely subject to their political
jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance.
http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/getcase/us/112/94.html
*Completely* subject to the United States' political jurisdiction, not merely subject to the laws. A foreign tourist here has to obey our laws, but is *not* subject to military service or jury duty. A tourist is not subject to the *complete* political jurisdiction of the country, and nor is an unlawfully present alien. And nor is the U.S.-born child of such an alien.
The U.S.-born children of aliens not lawfully present in the U.S. should not be considered citizens, under a correct reading of the amendment and what the amendment author and ratifiers intended.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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