• New confusion over whether 20mph speed limit in Royal Parks applies to

    From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 17 23:05:01 2023
    The Royal Parks have re-opened the controversy over whether the 20mph speed limit for cars on roads through Richmond Park also applies to cyclists.

    The issue has re-emerged following the creation of a number of so-called traffic calming measures in Richmond Park, including 'courtesy crossings' and a contra-flow chicane, which critics say risk creating accident blackspots.

    The Royal Parks has promised a safety review of the measures following complaints from cycling groups and an accident last week where a cyclist went over his handlebars.

    The cyclist braked quickly after a car in front suddenly stopped because the driver was unsure whether he had right of way at a new contraflow at the bottom of Sawyers Hill, near the Roehampton Gate.

    Rights of way and safety on roads through Richmond and Bushy Parks have become a source of increasing conflict between pedestrians, cyclists and motorists.

    Cyclists repeatedly complain that 'bully' drivers are putting them at risk through close-passes, while pedestrians complain Richmond Park has been turned into a velodrome with angry cyclists, many racing to complete laps, accused of abusing those on foot.

    There is no legal speed limit on cyclists on public roads and – on the face of it – there is no byelaw that allows the Royal Parks to impose one in Richmond, Bushy Park, or any others it is responsible for.

    However, the organisation issued a press statement to Nub News stating categorically that there is a 20mph speed limit for cyclists.

    Talking about the accident last week, a Royal Parks spokesperson said: "We are very sorry to hear that a cyclist was injured when he braked ahead of a courtesy crossing point, and we wish him a speedy recovery.

    "Safety is our priority, and the courtesy crossing point was installed to improve pedestrian safety so that people, especially children using the nearby sports pitches, could cross the Beverly Brook Bridge safely, and no longer need to walk in the road
    to do so."

    Promising a review, the spokesperson said: "We worked with consultants to design the measures and conduct a safety audit. The measures are also compliant with national best practice. In addition, we are conducting a safety review following the
    installation of these measures, to consider if adjustments are needed.

    "Several signs either side of the courtesy crossing indicate that road users must slow down and give way, and 'rumble strips' are incorporated to slow traffic in advance."

    On the issue of speed limits, the spokesperson added: "We welcome all considerate road users, however pedestrians have priority as they make up the majority of park visitors.

    "Therefore, a 20mph speed limit is in place for all road users to maintain a safe environment for pedestrians of all ages, and to protect road users, as well as wildlife - particularly as wild deer may behave unpredictably and run across park roads.

    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies and is enforced under the Highways Act."

    This statement is at odds with one issued by the Royal Parks in 2021, which said: "There is no speed limit for cycling on Britain's roads as cyclists are not required to have a speedometer.

    "It is the same in the Royal Parks, although we do ask that cyclists observe the motor vehicle speed limit for the park, the road or path in question. This varies from 5mph to 20mph."

    Asked to confirm whether the 20mph speed limit applies to cyclists, the spokesperson insisted that it does. The Royal Parks has been asked to provide a copy of the byelaw that identifies this speed limit.

    https://teddington.nub.news/news/local-news/new-confusion-over-whether-20mph-speed-limit-in-royal-parks-applies-to-cyclists-184522

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Thu May 18 08:22:25 2023
    The moral of this story is that if you’re on a bicycle, don’t follow the vehicle in front at a closer distance than one in which you can safely come
    to a stop.

    It’s a bit difficult for self-entitled cyclists to grasp this simple truth, as this story shows.

    They also need to develop a sense of anticipation with regard to road conditions ahead, but that is asking a lot.

    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Royal Parks have re-opened the controversy over whether the 20mph
    speed limit for cars on roads through Richmond Park also applies to cyclists.

    The Royal Parks has promised a safety review of the measures following complaints from cycling groups and an accident last week where a cyclist
    went over his handlebars.

    The cyclist braked quickly after a car in front suddenly stopped because
    the driver was unsure whether he had right of way at a new contraflow at
    the bottom of Sawyers Hill, near the Roehampton Gate.

    […]

    https://teddington.nub.news/news/local-news/new-confusion-over-whether-20mph-speed-limit-in-royal-parks-applies-to-cyclists-184522




    --
    Spike

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 18 01:42:51 2023
    QUOTE: Asked to confirm whether the 20mph speed limit applies to cyclists, the spokesperson insisted that it does. The Royal Parks has been asked to provide a copy of the byelaw that identifies this speed limit. ENDS

    In other words - put up or shut up.
    Let's see the law on paper first.

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Thu May 18 10:02:07 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    QUOTE: Asked to confirm whether the 20mph speed limit applies to
    cyclists, the spokesperson insisted that it does. The Royal Parks has
    been asked to provide a copy of the byelaw that identifies this speed limit. ENDS

    In other words - put up or shut up.
    Let's see the law on paper first.

    One rather thinks that Royal Parks can make their own laws. And they don’t have to follow the Parliamentary route to do so.

    --
    Spike

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 18 03:27:57 2023
    QUOTE: There is no legal speed limit on cyclists on public roads and – on the face of it – there is no byelaw that allows the Royal Parks to impose one in Richmond, Bushy Park, or any others it is responsible for. ENDS

    I'm sure someone from the council will clear this up, like with the Auriel Grey cycle path.

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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Thu May 18 11:41:25 2023
    On 18/05/2023 07:05 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

    The Royal Parks have re-opened the controversy over whether the 20mph speed limit for cars on roads through Richmond Park also applies to chav-cyclists.
    The issue has re-emerged following the creation of a number of so-called traffic calming measures in Richmond Park, including 'courtesy crossings' and a contra-flow chicane, which critics say risk creating accident blackspots.
    The Royal Parks has promised a safety review of the measures following complaints from cycling groups and an accident last week where a cyclist went over his handlebars.

    Oh, come off it!

    That's *impossible*!

    You and others here have reassured us of that *many* times, haven't you?

    The chav on the bike braked quickly after a car in front suddenly stopped because the driver was unsure whether he had right of way at a new contraflow at the bottom of Sawyers Hill, near the Roehampton Gate.

    So the chav-cyclist failed to keep a proper look-out (how can you when
    you are staring at the ground?) while travelling too fast for the
    conditions and too close to the vehicle in front.

    A common fault and a significant cause of road traffic accidents.

    Rights of way and safety on roads through Richmond and Bushy Parks have become a source of increasing conflict between pedestrians, chavs on bikes and motorists.

    They shouldn't be.

    Chav-cyclists repeatedly complain that 'bully' drivers are putting them at risk through close-passes, while pedestrians complain Richmond Park has been turned into a velodrome with angry chavs on bikes, many racing to complete laps, accused of abusing
    those on foot.

    That latter has the ring of truth, doesn't it?

    There is no legal speed limit on chav-cyclists on public roads and – on the face of it – there is no byelaw that allows the Royal Parks to impose one in Richmond, Bushy Park, or any others it is responsible for.
    However, the organisation issued a press statement to Nub News stating categorically that there is a 20mph speed limit for chav-cyclists.

    And the Royal Parks could not POSSIBLY know their own business best,
    could they?

    For authoritative pronouncements on Royal Park byelaws, one has to ask a
    chav on a bike. They're the only ones who really know.

    Talking about the accident last week, a Royal Parks spokesperson giggled and said: "We are very sorry to hear that a chav-cyclist was injured when he braked ahead of a courtesy crossing point, and we wish him a speedy recovery. Honest we do, guv.
    "Safety is our priority, and the courtesy crossing point was installed to improve pedestrian safety so that people, especially children using the nearby sports pitches, could cross the Beverly Brook Bridge safely, and no longer need to walk in the road
    to do so."

    Promising a review, the spokesperson said: "We worked with consultants to design the measures and conduct a safety audit. The measures are also compliant with national best practice. In addition, we are conducting a safety review following the
    installation of these measures, to consider if adjustments are needed.

    "Several signs either side of the courtesy crossing indicate that road users must slow down and give way, and 'rumble strips' are incorporated to slow traffic in advance."

    But SURELY that cannot possibly apply to chavs riding bikes?

    On the issue of speed limits, the spokesperson added: "We welcome all considerate road users, however pedestrians have priority as they make up the majority of park visitors.
    "Therefore, a 20mph speed limit is in place for all road users to maintain a safe environment for pedestrians of all ages, and to protect road users, as well as wildlife - particularly as wild deer may behave unpredictably and run across park roads.
    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies and is enforced under the Highways Act."
    This statement is at odds with one issued by the Royal Parks in 2021, which said: "There is no speed limit for fairy-cycling on Britain's roads as chav-cyclists are not required to have a speedometer.
    "It is the same in the Royal Parks, although we do ask that chav-cyclists observe the motor vehicle speed limit for the park, the road or path in question. This varies from 5mph to 20mph."

    What Mad Mason and others seem not to know is that older mopeds were not required to have a speedometer either, but the speed limits still
    applied to them.

    Asked to confirm whether the 20mph speed limit applies to chav-cyclists, the spokesperson insisted that it does. The Royal Parks has been asked to provide a copy of the byelaw that identifies this speed limit.

    https://teddington.nub.news/news/local-news/new-confusion-over-whether-20mph-speed-limit-in-royal-parks-applies-to-cyclists-184522

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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Thu May 18 11:43:18 2023
    On 18/05/2023 11:27 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

    QUOTE: There is no legal speed limit on chav-cyclists on public roads and – on the face of it – there is no byelaw that allows the Royal Parks to impose one in Richmond, Bushy Park, or any others it is responsible for. ENDS

    I'm sure someone from the council will clear this up, like with the Auriel Grey cycle path.

    Which "council"?

    And what does it have to do with them?

    And the council in the Grey case did not confirm that the footway was a chav-cycle velodrome.

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 18 03:49:53 2023
    QUOTE: The Royal Parks has been asked to provide a copy of the byelaw that identifies this speed limit. ENDS

    In other words - show your working out.

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Thu May 18 13:32:53 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    QUOTE: The Royal Parks has been asked to provide a copy of the byelaw
    that identifies this speed limit. ENDS

    In other words - show your working out.

    Here’s your Starter For Ten:

    “The public does not have any legal right to use the parks, as public
    access depends on the grace and favour of the Crown”

    Over to you…

    --
    Spike

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 18 08:18:02 2023
    QUOTE: This statement is at odds with one issued by the Royal Parks in 2021, which said: "There is no speed limit for cycling on Britain's roads as cyclists are not required to have a speedometer. ENDS

    No - it's because the limit only applies to motor vehicles.

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 18 12:36:04 2023
    QUOTE: Under Park regulations it is an offence to: Drive above the 20 mph speed limit. Drop or leave litter. ENDS

    "DRIVE" - NOTED

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Thu May 18 19:26:55 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    QUOTE: This statement is at odds with one issued by the Royal Parks in
    2021, which said: "There is no speed limit for cycling on Britain's roads
    as cyclists are not required to have a speedometer. ENDS

    No - it's because the limit only applies to motor vehicles.

    That’s on public roads

    But in the Royal Parks, the laws are whatever they say they are, and might
    not differentiate between vehicles and motor vehicles.

    Do you know what they are?

    --
    Spike

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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to Spike on Thu May 18 22:11:38 2023
    On 18/05/2023 08:26 pm, Spike wrote:
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    QUOTE: This statement is at odds with one issued by the Royal Parks in
    2021, which said: "There is no speed limit for cycling on Britain's roads
    as cyclists are not required to have a speedometer. ENDS

    No - it's because the limit only applies to motor vehicles.

    That’s on public roads

    But in the Royal Parks, the laws are whatever they say they are, and might not differentiate between vehicles and motor vehicles.

    Do you know what they are?

    Dunno.

    How many syllables do they have?

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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Thu May 18 22:12:26 2023
    On 18/05/2023 08:36 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: Under Park regulations it is an offence to: Drive above the 20 mph speed limit. Drop or leave litter. ENDS

    "DRIVE" - NOTED

    Wasn't "No Brakes" Alliston convicted of wanton driving?


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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Thu May 18 22:11:02 2023
    On 18/05/2023 04:18 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

    QUOTE: This statement is at odds with one issued by the Royal Parks in 2021, which said: "There is no speed limit for chav-cycling on Britain's roads as chavs on bikes are not required to have a speedometer. ENDS

    That was then.

    This is now.

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 18 22:41:33 2023
    QUOTE: Do speed limits apply to cyclists Richmond Park?

    Speed limits in Richmond Park do not apply to cyclists, according to the Royal Parks, which manages the southwest London beauty spot as well as several other parks in the capital and Windsor Great Park.1 Oct 2021 ENDS

    Still looking for some evidence - none found yet.

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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Fri May 19 12:15:42 2023
    On 19/05/2023 06:41 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

    QUOTE: Do speed limits apply to cyclists Richmond Park?

    "cyclists Richmond Park"?

    What are you trying to talk about?

    Did you mean chavs in bikes IN Richmond Park?

    Speed limits in Richmond Park do not apply to chav-cyclists, according to the Royal Parks, which manages the southwest London beauty spot as well as several other parks in the capital and Windsor Great Park.1 Oct 2021 ENDS

    Wrong.

    The Royal Park has since issued an edict [look it up, Mason] that chavs
    on bikes like you are just as subject to speed limits there as any other vehicle user.

    Still looking for some evidence - none found yet.

    You've already posted it.

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 19 04:29:13 2023
    QUOTE: Speed limits in Richmond Park do not apply to cyclists, according to the Royal Parks, which manages the southwest London beauty spot as well as several other parks in the capital and Windsor Great Park.

    The confirmation, in response to a question raised on Twitter last month, will hopefully put an end to confusion on the issue, with a number of cyclists having been fined in the past for riding in excess of a speed limit which applies only to motor
    vehicles.ENDS

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to JNugent on Fri May 19 18:38:21 2023
    JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
    On 19/05/2023 06:41 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

    QUOTE: Do speed limits apply to cyclists Richmond Park?

    "cyclists Richmond Park"?

    What are you trying to talk about?

    Did you mean chavs in bikes IN Richmond Park?

    Speed limits in Richmond Park do not apply to chav-cyclists, according
    to the Royal Parks, which manages the southwest London beauty spot as
    well as several other parks in the capital and Windsor Great Park.1 Oct 2021 ENDS

    Wrong.

    The Royal Park has since issued an edict [look it up, Mason] that chavs
    on bikes like you are just as subject to speed limits there as any other vehicle user.

    Still looking for some evidence - none found yet.

    You've already posted it.

    Don’t spoil a deeply-held belief by mentioning facts.

    --
    Spike

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 19 11:43:35 2023
    Police have stated that the 20mph speed limit in London's Richmond Park does not apply to cyclists after Royal Parks confirmed that the restrictions only applied to motor vehicles.

    The Metropolitan Police has confirmed that cyclists can not be prosecuted for going faster than 20mph around Richmond Park and other areas managed by Royal Parks, thus bringing an end to a long-running dispute between cyclists and police over the issue.

    According to Twickenham Nub News (opens in new tab), the Met has prosecuted multiple cyclists for speeding in the parks by using speed guns while hiding behind trees as well as making categorical statements saying cyclists should stick to the speed limit.


    However, Royal Parks, the organisation that looks after Richmond Park, has said that the speed limit does not apply to cyclists meaning that any legal action by the police against cyclists over this issue may have been unlawful.

    This would mean that any convictions may be overturned and, in some cases, compensation will be given if the prosecuted person saw damage to their reputation as well as inconvenience and cost.

    A Royal Parks spokesperson said: "There is no speed limit for cycling on Britain’s roads as cyclists are not required to have a speedometer.

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  • From Nick Finnigan@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 10:04:59 2023
    On 18/05/2023 20:36, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: Under Park regulations it is an offence to: Drive above the 20 mph speed limit. Drop or leave litter. ENDS

    "DRIVE" - NOTED

    However, the actual act read:

    "Speeds at which vehicles may be driven or ridden on a Park road"


    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1639/schedule/2/part/II/made

    that was amended in 2012, and only then was 'vehicle' defined, for the
    new regulations:

    1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces (Amendment) etc. Regulations 2010 and shall come into force for the purposes of regulations 1 to 4 on 6th April 2010 and for all other purposes
    on 1st October 2010.

    (2) In these Regulations–

    “parking permit” means a permit issued by or on behalf of the Secretary of State for the parking of a vehicle;

    “parking place” means a place shown on a notice exhibited by or on behalf of the Secretary of State as being appointed under these Regulations as a
    place where a person may park a vehicle; and

    “vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on a road.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/1194/regulation/1/made

    The latest regulations do not clarify which vehicles they apply to, so
    could cover pedal cycles: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1027/regulation/2/made

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 20 02:11:32 2023
    QUOTE: However, Royal Parks, the organisation that looks after Richmond Park, has said that the speed limit does not apply to cyclists meaning that any legal action by the police against cyclists over this issue may have been unlawful. ENDS

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  • From Nick Finnigan@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 10:28:24 2023
    On 20/05/2023 10:11, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: However, Royal Parks, the organisation that looks after Richmond Park, has said that the speed limit does not apply to cyclists meaning that any legal action by the police against cyclists over this issue may have been unlawful. ENDS


    Can you provide a reference (which is clearly from Royal Parks) ?

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Nick Finnigan on Sat May 20 02:40:41 2023
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 10:30:53 AM UTC+1, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 20/05/2023 10:11, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: However, Royal Parks, the organisation that looks after Richmond Park, has said that the speed limit does not apply to cyclists meaning that any legal action by the police against cyclists over this issue may have been unlawful. ENDS


    Can you provide a reference (which is clearly from Royal Parks) ?

    "There has long been controversy and dispute over the behaviour of cyclists and whether the speed limits that apply to cars, which range from 5mph to 20mph in Richmond Park, apply to those on two wheels.

    This appeared to be settled two years ago when the Royal Parks issued a statement saying there is no speed limit for cyclists in the Royal Parks, which mirrors the situation on normal public roads."

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 09:58:34 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 10:30:53 AM UTC+1, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 20/05/2023 10:11, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: However, Royal Parks, the organisation that looks after Richmond
    Park, has said that the speed limit does not apply to cyclists meaning
    that any legal action by the police against cyclists over this issue
    may have been unlawful. ENDS


    Can you provide a reference (which is clearly from Royal Parks) ?

    "There has long been controversy and dispute over the behaviour of
    cyclists and whether the speed limits that apply to cars, which range
    from 5mph to 20mph in Richmond Park, apply to those on two wheels.

    This appeared to be settled two years ago when the Royal Parks issued a statement saying there is no speed limit for cyclists in the Royal Parks, which mirrors the situation on normal public roads."

    Now answer the question posed above by Nick Finnigan, which for your convenience was:

    “Can you provide a reference (which is clearly from Royal Parks)?”

    --
    Spike

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 20 03:27:32 2023
    QUOTE: There is no legal speed limit on cyclists on public roads and – on the face of it – there is no byelaw that allows the Royal Parks to impose one in Richmond, Bushy Park, or any others it is responsible for. ENDS

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 10:38:20 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    QUOTE: There is no legal speed limit on cyclists on public roads and – on the face of it – there is no byelaw that allows the Royal Parks to impose one in Richmond, Bushy Park, or any others it is responsible for. ENDS

    So your response to Nick Finnigan’s question is “No I can’t provide a reference, but I’ll repeat the claim that gave rise to it”.

    IOW, your answer is “No”.


    --
    Spike

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 20 03:46:23 2023
    QUOTE: Royal Parks in 2021, which said: "There is no speed limit for cycling on Britain's roads as cyclists are not required to have a speedometer. ENDS

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  • From Simon Mason@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 20 04:58:21 2023
    QUOTE:
    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies. ENDS

    The HC specifically does not include bicycles in rules concerning speed limits.

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 11:52:30 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    QUOTE: Royal Parks in 2021, which said: "There is no speed limit for
    cycling on Britain's roads as cyclists are not required to have a speedometer. ENDS

    This is merely a trimmed version of the claim you quoted in this thread on
    18 May at 16:18.

    HTH

    --
    Spike

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to Simon Mason on Sat May 20 13:10:52 2023
    Simon Mason <swldxer2022@gmail.com> wrote:
    QUOTE:

    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies. ENDS

    The HC specifically does not include bicycles in rules concerning speed limits.

    Unfortunately, as much as cyclists might wish it, the Highway Code is not ‘the law’ in relation to speed limits.

    HTH

    --
    Spike

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  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Simon Mason on Sat May 20 08:22:55 2023
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:58:23 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
    QUOTE:
    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies. ENDS

    The HC specifically does not include bicycles in rules concerning speed limits.

    That's why they have to rely on "wanton and furious driving of carriage".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Nick Finnigan@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 17:42:22 2023
    On 20/05/2023 11:27, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: There is no legal speed limit on cyclists on public roads and – on the face of it – there is no byelaw that allows the Royal Parks to impose one in Richmond, Bushy Park, or any others it is responsible for. ENDS


    However, the Crown Estate Act allows speed limits to be imposed by the Secretary of state, as happened in 1997. Which was before the Royal Parks charity was estabalished to support and manage the parks - nevertheless, it would be interesting to have their official view.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 10:32:51 2023
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:22:57 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:58:23 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
    QUOTE:
    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies. ENDS

    The HC specifically does not include bicycles in rules concerning speed limits.
    That's why they have to rely on "wanton and furious driving of carriage".

    "Wanton and furious driving is an offence arising from 19th century legislation used by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to prosecute offenders who do not fit the criteria of the more commonly used road traffic offences pursuant to more modern
    legislation."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 17:34:36 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:22:57 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:58:23 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
    QUOTE:
    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies. ENDS

    The HC specifically does not include bicycles in rules concerning speed limits.
    That's why they have to rely on "wanton and furious driving of carriage".

    "Wanton and furious driving is an offence arising from 19th century legislation used by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to prosecute offenders who do not fit the criteria of the more commonly used road
    traffic offences pursuant to more modern legislation."

    And?

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 17:26:28 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:58:23 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
    QUOTE:
    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies. ENDS

    The HC specifically does not include bicycles in rules concerning speed limits.

    That's why they have to rely on "wanton and furious driving of carriage".

    …but not in Royal Parks…

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 10:37:32 2023
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:32:52 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:22:57 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:58:23 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
    QUOTE:
    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies. ENDS

    The HC specifically does not include bicycles in rules concerning speed limits.
    That's why they have to rely on "wanton and furious driving of carriage".
    "Wanton and furious driving is an offence arising from 19th century legislation used by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to prosecute offenders who do not fit the criteria of the more commonly used road traffic offences pursuant to more modern
    legislation."

    It was my life's ambition to get fined for that "offence".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 18:44:38 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:


    "Wanton and furious driving is an offence arising from 19th century
    legislation used by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to prosecute
    offenders who do not fit the criteria of the more commonly used road
    traffic offences pursuant to more modern legislation."

    It was my life's ambition to get fined for that "offence".

    Wow! You did aim high, didn’t you.

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 20 12:31:07 2023
    "Because bikes aren’t fitted with speedometers, cyclists can’t be charged with speeding offences. HOWEVER, if they are considered to be going too fast for the conditions, they could be charges with ‘wanton or furious cycling’ which is a
    criminal offence under section 35 of the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861 (as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 1948 s1(2)2

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sat May 20 21:44:30 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    "Because bikes aren’t fitted with speedometers, cyclists can’t be charged with speeding offences. HOWEVER, if they are considered to be
    going too fast for the conditions, they could be charges with ‘wanton or furious cycling’ which is a criminal offence under section 35 of the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861 (as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 1948 s1(2)2

    I think we all knew that…

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 20 22:26:21 2023
    QUOTE: Speaking to Sky News, Mr Briggs said: "A week after Kim died I received a call from the police to say there was an issue with the bike and they were considering bringing charges but they didn't know which charges they could bring because these
    laws weren't there. ENDS

    They're still not there.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sun May 21 08:43:09 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    QUOTE: Speaking to Sky News, Mr Briggs said: "A week after Kim died I received a call from the police to say there was an issue with the bike
    and they were considering bringing charges but they didn't know which
    charges they could bring because these laws weren't there. ENDS

    They're still not there.

    To everyone’s shame.

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sun May 21 01:52:41 2023
    On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 8:36:06 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: Under Park regulations it is an offence to: Drive above the 20 mph speed limit. Drop or leave litter. ENDS

    "DRIVE" - NOTED

    Drivers are responsible for any littering from their vehicles. Use ashtrays for cigarettes and litter bags for trash while riding in motor vehicles. Empty ash trays and litter bags only into trash cans. LITTERING IS A CRIME

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sun May 21 09:52:16 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 8:36:06 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: Under Park regulations it is an offence to: Drive above the 20
    mph speed limit. Drop or leave litter. ENDS

    "DRIVE" - NOTED

    Drivers are responsible for any littering from their vehicles. Use
    ashtrays for cigarettes and litter bags for trash while riding in motor vehicles. Empty ash trays and litter bags only into trash cans. LITTERING IS A CRIME

    'Selfish cyclists' slammed for dropping empty gel packs in Richmond park, risking the lives of deer

    “Selfish cyclists” in Richmond Park have been blamed for dropping litter which can kill deer by clogging their stomachs.

    A new warning from park conservationists has slammed the “dangerous” new phenomenon of cyclists discarding gel packs during recent races held at the park.

    Litter is one of the major threats facing grazing deer in the park, with an estimated five deer killed by eating discarded rubbish each year, wildlife officers at the park say.

    The warning comes after two major cycling events, the London Duathlon and
    Ride London, saw hundreds of gel packs left lying at the nature reserve.

    Gruesome: Wildlife officer John Bartram holding up the stomach contents of
    a deer which died because of litter.

    <https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/selfish-cyclists-slammed-for-dropping-litter-after-richmond-park-deer-deaths-a3350046.html>

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 21 11:06:41 2023
    On 20/05/2023 06:37 pm, swldx...@gmail.com...

    ..pretending not to answer Spike, said:

    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 6:32:52 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com...

    ..pretending not to answer Spike, said:

    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:22:57 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com...

    ..pretending not to answer Spike, said:

    On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:58:23 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
    QUOTE:
    "On park roads, the Highway Code applies. ENDS
    The HC specifically does not include bicycles in rules concerning speed limits.

    That's why they have to rely on "wanton and furious driving of carriage".

    "Wanton and furious driving is an offence arising from 19th century legislation used by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) to prosecute offenders who do not fit the criteria of the more commonly used road traffic offences pursuant to more modern
    legislation."

    It was my life's ambition to get fined for that "offence".

    It is extremely unlikely that you have not committed it many times.
    Watching the ground beneath the pedals rather than looking where you're
    going - a very common action of chavs on bikes like yourself - would count.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 21 11:09:49 2023
    On 21/05/2023 09:52 am, swldx...@gmail.com...

    ..pretending not to answer Spike, said:

    On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 8:36:06 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: Under Park regulations it is an offence to: Drive above the 20 mph speed limit. Drop or leave litter. ENDS

    "DRIVE" - NOTED

    Drivers are responsible for any littering from their vehicles.

    That is yet another chavvy lie from Mad Mason.

    Whereas chavs-on-bikes like to "think" that they own and are in control
    of other people, actually, nobody does.

    Use ashtrays for cigarettes and litter bags for trash while riding in motor vehicles.

    Don't smoke in a motor vehicle.

    Be civilised instead.

    Empty ash trays and litter bags only into trash cans. LITTERING IS A CRIME...

    ... and it is the duty of the individual not to do it. Not someone esle.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sun May 21 03:30:18 2023
    On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 9:52:43 AM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 8:36:06 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    QUOTE: Under Park regulations it is an offence to: Drive above the 20 mph speed limit. Drop or leave litter. ENDS

    "DRIVE" - NOTED
    Drivers are responsible for any littering from their vehicles. Use ashtrays for cigarettes and litter bags for trash while riding in motor vehicles. Empty ash trays and litter bags only into trash cans. LITTERING IS A CRIME

    Littering on motorways across the UK has become a serious issue for drivers and locals – and the problem is apparently getting worse.

    It is got to the point where the RAC Foundation fears the nation is approaching a 'point of no return' due to uncollected litter piling up on the side of the roads, and becoming embedded in the landscape.

    Steve Gooding, Director of the foundation, said: “In 1,000 years, we risk archaeologists digging up the past and identifying the 21st-century road network not by the buried tarmac but by the lines of litter that bordered it.”

    Responsibility for maintaining the motorways and keeping them free of litter falls on National Highways.

    Freda Rashdi, of National Highways, said: “Littering is a social problem and we’re working hard to tackle it on our roads.

    “It includes using CCTV in A-road lay-bys to gather evidence to provide to local authorities, who can carry out enforcement.

    “We’re also carrying out a trial to understand how message signs resonate with drivers to reduce motorway littering.”

    Drivers can report littering on the roads to National Highways.

    With the issue escalating, in March this year, 25 MPs signed a motion to raise awareness of littering on the motorways.

    The motion stated: “That this House deplores the huge amount of litter on motorways, access road, junctions and verges; notes that there is a crystal clear legal obligation on National Highways to ensure roads are kept clear of litter; and calls on
    National Highways to act on this obligation, use motorway gantries to promote anti-littering messaging, ensure staff and contractors remove signs, sandbags and cones following roadworks in a timely manner and ensure contracts include financial penalties
    for not doing so.”

    Conservative MP for Hemel Hempstead, Sir Mike Penning, is the primary for the calls for change.

    He branded the current levels of littering on the motorways as a ‘national disgrace’ and is urging the Government to issue stronger penalties for those caught and for National Highways to clean up the mess.

    Penning also believes that National Highways are failing in their duty to keep roads free of rubbish.

    He said: “Some of our motorways go through the most beautiful parts of the country. It is like driving through a rubbish tip. We have the technology to prosecute and we’re not doing it.”

    The group leading the calls for change believe that motorway cameras should be used to catch litter louts alongside their usual tasks for speeding and illegal activities on the roads.

    Earlier this year, anti-litter campaign group Clean Up Britain launched an action plan calling for the introduction of £1,000 littering fines (up from £150) and for six penalty points on the driver’s licence.

    John Read, the group's Founder, said: "We go around the country, and we film motorways and major A roads just to show the public because this is the important thing - the British public need to see what a disgusting, filthy, rancid country they live in.
    It's really sad to say that but it's true.

    "And we seem to lost our pride and respect in Britain. We need desperately to get it back because at the moment the country looks like an open cast tip. It really does, it looks like a rubbish bin. We can do so much better than that, but we need to start
    really understanding it's a major problem."

    Have you noticed more littering on UK roads recently? Should the punishments for being caught be more severe? And should motorway cameras be used to catch litter louts? Leave your comments below.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sun May 21 12:10:23 2023
    RUBBISH - From Cyclists
    Post 29 May 2022, 3:24pm

    Before I start does anyone know if Ride London do a rubbish pick up after
    the event? If so forget the rest.

    I did ask a Marshall and she said the wagons go round to pick up the signs,
    but didn't think there was anyone doing the rubbish.

    I was camping just off the Ride and the Women's route. Coming back from my private ride today, I rode a short section of the Ride London 100 route. In about 3kms, I saw 30 or so energy sachets discarded on the road. There were also a couple of water bottles and a few banana skins. Plus other sweet wrappers.

    Strange where the sachets were as it was only a few Kms before a feeding station, so maybe people who don't stop to feed.

    I fully support all cycling and was pleased to see these 2 events, but what arrogant t*ssers some of the riders must be to think they can dump their rubbish on our lovely Essex roads.

    Are there any rules about throwing rubbish in these type events?

    Re: RUBBISH - From Cyclists
    Post 30 May 2022, 6:51pm

    Living in the Surrey Hills cycling litter such as gel wrappers and
    discarded inner tubes are constant.
    It is far worse when Sportives are run, to the degree locals organise
    litter picks as we are fed up with it.

    Re: RUBBISH - From Cyclists
    Post 30 May 2022, 10:57pm

    A few years ago there was a cycling event on my commuting route over the weekend. On the Monday there was one spot with rather a lot of little, air bottles. It took me a couple of days to realise that they weren't in fact
    part of a puncture repair kit but the remains of a legal high. I was
    initially most unfair to sportive riders but on the whole it is fair to
    assume the worst of mass participation sporting events such as cycling sportive, marathons and fun runs. There are certainly good and bad ones.


    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 9:52:43 AM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 8:36:06 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote: >>> QUOTE: Under Park regulations it is an offence to: Drive above the 20
    mph speed limit. Drop or leave litter. ENDS

    "DRIVE" - NOTED
    Drivers are responsible for any littering from their vehicles. Use
    ashtrays for cigarettes and litter bags for trash while riding in motor
    vehicles. Empty ash trays and litter bags only into trash cans. LITTERING IS A CRIME

    Littering on motorways across the UK has become a serious issue for
    drivers and locals – and the problem is apparently getting worse.

    It is got to the point where the RAC Foundation fears the nation is approaching a 'point of no return' due to uncollected litter piling up on
    the side of the roads, and becoming embedded in the landscape.

    Steve Gooding, Director of the foundation, said: “In 1,000 years, we risk archaeologists digging up the past and identifying the 21st-century road network not by the buried tarmac but by the lines of litter that bordered it.”

    Responsibility for maintaining the motorways and keeping them free of
    litter falls on National Highways.

    Freda Rashdi, of National Highways, said: “Littering is a social problem and we’re working hard to tackle it on our roads.

    “It includes using CCTV in A-road lay-bys to gather evidence to provide
    to local authorities, who can carry out enforcement.

    “We’re also carrying out a trial to understand how message signs resonate with drivers to reduce motorway littering.”

    Drivers can report littering on the roads to National Highways.

    With the issue escalating, in March this year, 25 MPs signed a motion to raise awareness of littering on the motorways.

    The motion stated: “That this House deplores the huge amount of litter on motorways, access road, junctions and verges; notes that there is a
    crystal clear legal obligation on National Highways to ensure roads are
    kept clear of litter; and calls on National Highways to act on this obligation, use motorway gantries to promote anti-littering messaging,
    ensure staff and contractors remove signs, sandbags and cones following roadworks in a timely manner and ensure contracts include financial
    penalties for not doing so.”

    Conservative MP for Hemel Hempstead, Sir Mike Penning, is the primary for
    the calls for change.

    He branded the current levels of littering on the motorways as a
    ‘national disgrace’ and is urging the Government to issue stronger penalties for those caught and for National Highways to clean up the mess.

    Penning also believes that National Highways are failing in their duty to keep roads free of rubbish.

    He said: “Some of our motorways go through the most beautiful parts of
    the country. It is like driving through a rubbish tip. We have the
    technology to prosecute and we’re not doing it.”

    The group leading the calls for change believe that motorway cameras
    should be used to catch litter louts alongside their usual tasks for
    speeding and illegal activities on the roads.

    Earlier this year, anti-litter campaign group Clean Up Britain launched
    an action plan calling for the introduction of £1,000 littering fines (up from £150) and for six penalty points on the driver’s licence.

    John Read, the group's Founder, said: "We go around the country, and we
    film motorways and major A roads just to show the public because this is
    the important thing - the British public need to see what a disgusting, filthy, rancid country they live in. It's really sad to say that but it's true.

    "And we seem to lost our pride and respect in Britain. We need
    desperately to get it back because at the moment the country looks like
    an open cast tip. It really does, it looks like a rubbish bin. We can do
    so much better than that, but we need to start really understanding it's a major problem."

    Have you noticed more littering on UK roads recently? Should the
    punishments for being caught be more severe? And should motorway cameras
    be used to catch litter louts? Leave your comments below.




    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 21 05:46:58 2023
    We have your Number. Our roads are not one giant litter bin. The registered keeper of a vehicle is liable to a fine of £75 if litter is thrown from their vehicle. This is the case even if they were not in the vehicle or did not throw the litter.


    One in seven drivers admit to chucking rubbish out of their car. The result is our roadsides covered with everything from coffee cups to cigarette ends, dirty nappies to old newspapers. According to the environmental charity, Keep Britain Tidy, it costs
    the taxpayer more than £850million a year to clear up roadside rubbish.

    To help combat roadside litter, new regulations were introduced in April 2018. These regulations mean local councils may issue a penalty notice to the registered owner of a car if it can be proved litter had been dumped from their vehicle, even if
    someone else discarded the rubbish.

    Dover District Council has adopted these powers and is now issuing penalty notices for this type of littering offence. Owners of cars witnessed to have had litter thrown from them will be served with a £75 penalty notice payable within 28 days. Should
    no payment be received then the penalty amount doubles to £150.

    If no payment is received during the payment period then Dover District Council may register the debt at County Court and a Warrant issued for Bailiffs to recovery the debt.

    Littering remains a criminal offence under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 and our Environmental Enforcement Officers continues to enforce this legislation across the Dover District. Under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 the Council needed to
    prove who the person, responsible for depositing litter from a vehicle, was. These new regulations remove this requirement and the registered keeper of a vehicle is liable for a civil penalty.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sun May 21 13:26:28 2023
    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

    We have your Number. Our roads are not one giant litter bin. The
    registered keeper of a vehicle is liable to a fine of £75 if litter is thrown from their vehicle. This is the case even if they were not in the vehicle or did not throw the litter.

    That’s a lie. An outright lie. This is the actual position, taken from the same report:

    “These new regulations remove this requirement and the registered keeper of
    a vehicle is liable for a civil penalty”.

    A ‘civil penalty’ IS NOT ‘fine’.

    Why the desperate need to tell lies in this way?

    One in seven drivers admit to chucking rubbish out of their car. The
    result is our roadsides covered with everything from coffee cups to
    cigarette ends, dirty nappies to old newspapers. According to the environmental charity, Keep Britain Tidy, it costs the taxpayer more than £850million a year to clear up roadside rubbish.

    To help combat roadside litter, new regulations were introduced in April 2018. These regulations mean local councils may issue a penalty notice to
    the registered owner of a car if it can be proved litter had been dumped
    from their vehicle, even if someone else discarded the rubbish.

    Dover District Council has adopted these powers and is now issuing
    penalty notices for this type of littering offence. Owners of cars
    witnessed to have had litter thrown from them will be served with a £75 penalty notice payable within 28 days. Should no payment be received then
    the penalty amount doubles to £150.

    If no payment is received during the payment period then Dover District Council may register the debt at County Court and a Warrant issued for Bailiffs to recovery the debt.

    Littering remains a criminal offence under the Environmental Protection
    Act 1990 and our Environmental Enforcement Officers continues to enforce
    this legislation across the Dover District. Under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 the Council needed to prove who the person,
    responsible for depositing litter from a vehicle, was. These new
    regulations remove this requirement and the registered keeper of a
    vehicle is liable for a civil penalty.


    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sun May 21 15:53:55 2023
    On 21/05/2023 01:46 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

    We have your Number. Our roads are not one giant litter bin. The registered keeper of a vehicle is liable to a fine of £75 if litter is thrown from their vehicle. This is the case even if they were not in the vehicle or did not throw the litter.

    That's very harsh on companies supplying cars to their employees or
    car-rental companies.

    One in seven drivers admit to chucking rubbish out of their car. The result is our roadsides covered with everything from coffee cups to cigarette ends, dirty nappies to old newspapers. According to the environmental charity, Keep Britain Tidy, it
    costs the taxpayer more than £850million a year to clear up roadside rubbish.

    The dirty nappies must surely be something to do with chav-cyclists
    caught short nowhere near a village green, surely?

    To help combat roadside litter, new regulations were introduced in April 2018. These regulations mean local councils may issue a penalty notice to the registered owner of a car if it can be proved litter had been dumped from their vehicle, even if
    someone else discarded the rubbish.

    "...if it can be proved..."

    NB: "proved" does not mean "alleged".

    Dover District Council has adopted these powers and is now issuing penalty notices for this type of littering offence. Owners of cars witnessed to have had litter thrown from them will be served with a £75 penalty notice payable within 28 days. Should
    no payment be received then the penalty amount doubles to £150.

    If no payment is received during the payment period then Dover District Council may register the debt at County Court and a Warrant issued for Bailiffs to recovery the debt.

    Grammar, Timothy!

    Littering remains a criminal offence under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 and our Environmental Enforcement Officers continues to enforce this legislation across the Dover District. Under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 the Council needed
    to prove who the person, responsible for depositing litter from a vehicle, was. These new regulations remove this requirement and the registered keeper of a vehicle is liable for a civil penalty.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 21 08:28:02 2023
    Drivers could face an on the spot fine of £150 if they are caught throwing litter out of their car window while driving, LeaseCar.uk has warned.

    Many drivers may see this as a minor offence however, the act is classed as littering and is a criminal offence on the roads - even if the litter is biodegradable.

    A lot of drivers do not realise that some seemingly innocent driving acts could actually see them disqualified in extreme cases.

    The motoring experts at LeaseCar.uk have compiled together a list of common things some motorists do often which could actually land them in hot water.

    All of these driving acts can be seen out on UK roads daily, but more and more motorists are getting caught out by these Highway Code breaches - so it is important to be aware of them.

    Smoking

    Although the act of smoking whilst driving itself is not illegal, motorists who are distracted behind the wheel whilst smoking could be fined £100 for "careless or inconsiderate" driving with three points on their licence.

    It is against the law, however, to smoke in the car whilst carrying passengers under the age of 18 - this ban was introduced in 2015 to protect young people from second hand smoke.

    Swearing

    Most motorists can admit they are guilty of a tad bit of road rage, but getting excessively angry whilst driving may be classified as disorderly conduct under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.

    This includes both verbal swearing and offensive hand gestures.

    If you are caught being hot headed behind the wheel you could potentially see in a hefty fine of up to £1,000.

    Alongside this, you could also be fined for "not being in full control of a vehicle" if you take your hands off the wheel.

    This rule particularly applies to those who choose to throw aggressive gestures toward other road users.

    Driving with pets

    Many drivers will happily travel around with their pets in the passenger seat, footwell or in the boot - but this could land them a £5,000 fine.

    Rule 57 of the Highway Code says that all animals must be suitably restrained to not distract the driver.

    If your pet is moving around the vehicle, they could get in the way of the steering wheel and pedals, which could cause an accident which could result in the most severe "careless" driving fine.

    If you do have an accident, a pet running loose in the car is more likely to be badly injured, as well as being a danger to everyone else in the car

    So if you do have a pet, it's best if you buy it a crate or carrier that keeps your pet safely contained whilst you're in the car.

    Flashing your lights at vehicles in an attempt to warn others about speed cameras or police up ahead, is commonly seen on UK roads every day - but this act could carry a penalty of £1,000.

    This is because headlights should only be flashed to warn other cars of your presence.

    So legally you should flash your headlights to indicate the intention to overtake or pass another driver, or to signal a driver who has just overtaken that they can now return to the original lane.

    You can also use them to signal or insist that a leading driver speed up or change lanes to get out of the way of a faster following driver.

    Rules 110 and 111 of the Highway Code outline when motorists should and shouldn't use their headlights.
    Holding your mobile

    Most of us are aware that it is illegal to use and touch our mobile phones whilst behind the wheel, which comes with a fine of up to £1,000 and a driving ban.

    However, some drivers are unaware that the law actually extends to even holding any device which can connect to the internet, even if not actually using it.

    The law still applies if a driver is stopped at traffic lights, queuing in traffic, supervising a learner driver, or using a car that has a start/stop engine when you're not moving.

    The RAC says: "If your engine is running, your phone shouldn’t be in your hands".

    This sometimes can cause an issue if a driver is using their phone or tablet as a satnav for their journey.

    If you are doing this, you need to fix the phone to the windscreen or dashboard, so it’s in clear view while driving - but not obstructing your view - without requiring you to hold or interact with it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sun May 21 16:43:41 2023
    On 21/05/2023 04:28 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

    Drivers could face an on the spot fine of £150 if they are caught throwing litter out of their car window while driving, LeaseCar.uk has warned.

    Really?

    Many drivers may see this as a minor offence however, the act is classed as littering and is a criminal offence on the roads - even if the litter is biodegradable.

    Throwing an apple core into a rural hedge is an "offence", is it?

    A lot of drivers do not realise that some seemingly innocent driving acts could actually see them disqualified in extreme cases.
    The motoring experts at LeaseCar.uk have compiled together a list of common things some motorists do often which could actually land them in hot water.
    All of these driving acts can be seen out on UK roads daily, but more and more motorists are getting caught out by these Highway Code breaches - so it is important to be aware of them.
    Smoking
    Although the act of smoking whilst driving itself is not illegal,

    If the UK took justice seriously, it *would* be.

    motorists who are distracted behind the wheel whilst smoking could be fined £100 for "careless or inconsiderate" driving with three points on their licence.

    "could be"

    It is against the law, however, to smoke in the car whilst carrying passengers under the age of 18 - this ban was introduced in 2015 to protect young people from second hand smoke.

    And quite right too. It should be an offence to smoke in any moving
    vehicle of any description, anywhere within the jurisdiction.

    Swearing
    Most motorists can admit they are guilty of a tad bit of road rage, but getting excessively angry whilst driving may be classified as disorderly conduct under the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.

    Haha!

    This includes both verbal swearing and offensive hand gestures.
    If you are caught being hot headed behind the wheel you could potentially see in a hefty fine of up to £1,000.

    Really?

    Alongside this, you could also be fined for "not being in full control of a vehicle" if you take your hands off the wheel.
    This rule particularly applies to those who choose to throw aggressive gestures toward other road users.

    Does it apply to chavs on bikes?

    Driving with pets
    Many drivers will happily travel around with their pets in the passenger seat, footwell or in the boot - but this could land them a £5,000 fine.

    Rule 57 of the Highway Code says that all animals must be suitably restrained to not distract the driver.

    I'd have said that that being in the boot will achieve that.

    The trouble is always trying to get the cat to keep the seatbelt fastened.

    If your pet is moving around the vehicle, they could get in the way of the steering wheel and pedals, which could cause an accident which could result in the most severe "careless" driving fine.

    Gerraway!

    Who's making that crap up?

    A fairy-cyclist?

    If you do have an accident, a pet running loose in the car is more likely to be badly injured, as well as being a danger to everyone else in the car
    So if you do have a pet, it's best if you buy it a crate or carrier that keeps your pet safely contained whilst you're in the car.

    Flashing your lights at vehicles in an attempt to warn others about speed cameras or police up ahead, is commonly seen on UK roads every day - but this act could carry a penalty of £1,000.

    Tarot, crystal ball or tea-leaves?

    This is because headlights should only be flashed to warn other cars of your presence.

    Quote the Act and Regulations, please.

    Here's the space for it: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    So legally you should flash your headlights to indicate the intention to overtake or pass another driver, or to signal a driver who has just overtaken that they can now return to the original lane.

    Tarot, crystal ball or tea-leaves?

    Or were you the seventh son of some local gypsy woman?

    You can also use them to signal or insist that a leading driver speed up or change lanes to get out of the way of a faster following driver.

    Can you?

    Rules 110 and 111 of the Highway Code outline when motorists should and shouldn't use their headlights.

    "should"

    "shouldn't"

    Quote the Act and Regulations, please.

    Holding your mobile
    Most of us are aware that it is illegal to use and touch our mobile phones whilst behind the wheel,

    No, it isn't.

    which comes with a fine of up to £1,000 and a driving ban.

    Only in certain circumstances.

    However, some drivers are unaware that the law actually extends to even holding any device which can connect to the internet, even if not actually using it.
    The law still applies if a driver is stopped at traffic lights, queuing in traffic, supervising a learner driver, or using a car that has a start/stop engine when you're not moving.
    The RAC says: "If your engine is running, your phone shouldn’t be in your hands".
    This sometimes can cause an issue if a driver is using their phone or tablet as a satnav for their journey.
    If you are doing this, you need to fix the phone to the windscreen or dashboard, so it’s in clear view while driving - but not obstructing your view - without requiring you to hold or interact with it.

    Gerraway!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 21 09:02:14 2023
    Artificial intelligence cameras will soon be issuing motorway litterers with fines.

    National Highways say it will install the hi-tech cameras in lay-bys in the coming weeks as part of a trial to detect littering.

    Unlike traditional CCTV cameras which require enforcement officers to look through hours of footage to find offenders, the AI version will pick out offences, automatically sending them to an enforcement control room.

    Then, images will be immediately reviewed and fixed penalty charges of up to £100 will be issued to the person registered to the vehicle's number plate.

    To roll out the pioneering technology, National Highways has partnered with East Hampshire county council subsidiary, EHCS, who will manage the cameras.

    East Hampshire county council will issue the fines as the highways body does not have the power to take enforcement action.

    National Highways has comes under increasing pressure to clean up the country’s road network.

    Last month, Richard Holden, from the Department for Transport, revealed that just under 40% of National Highways roads were graded below B for litter, meaning significant levels of rubbish were found.

    Freda Rashdi, head of customer journeys at the National Highways, said: “Littering is a social problem across the country and we’re working hard to tackle it on our roads.

    “It includes using CCTV in A-road lay-bys to gather evidence to provide to local authorities, who can carry out enforcement.

    “We’re also carrying out a trial to understand how message signs resonate with drivers to reduce motorway littering.”

    The RAC last month said it fears the nation is reaching a "point of no return" due to uncollected litter piling up on the side of the roads.

    Steve Gooding, Director of the foundation, said: “In 1,000 years, we risk archaeologists digging up the past and identifying the 21st-century road network not by the buried tarmac but by the lines of litter that bordered it.”

    In March this year, 25 MPs signed a motion to raise awareness of littering on the motorways.

    The motion stated: “That this House deplores the huge amount of litter on motorways, access road, junctions and verges; notes that there is a crystal clear legal obligation on National Highways to ensure roads are kept clear of litter; and calls on
    National Highways to act on this obligation, use motorway gantries to promote anti-littering messaging, ensure staff and contractors remove signs, sandbags and cones following roadworks in a timely manner and ensure contracts include financial penalties
    for not doing so.”

    Drivers can report littering on the roads to National Highways.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Sun May 21 21:19:21 2023
    This is yet another report, that appears to have been written by an
    ignoramus who does not understand the difference between a ‘fine’ and a ‘penalty’.

    County Councils can not issue fines.

    Perhaps whoever wrote this rubbish should run it past an AI bot, unless it
    was produced by one - in which case it should have been reviewed by a human with a modicum of education.

    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

    Artificial intelligence cameras will soon be issuing motorway litterers with fines.

    National Highways say it will install the hi-tech cameras in lay-bys in
    the coming weeks as part of a trial to detect littering.

    Unlike traditional CCTV cameras which require enforcement officers to
    look through hours of footage to find offenders, the AI version will pick
    out offences, automatically sending them to an enforcement control room.

    Then, images will be immediately reviewed and fixed penalty charges of up
    to £100 will be issued to the person registered to the vehicle's number plate.

    To roll out the pioneering technology, National Highways has partnered
    with East Hampshire county council subsidiary, EHCS, who will manage the cameras.

    East Hampshire county council will issue the fines as the highways body
    does not have the power to take enforcement action.

    National Highways has comes under increasing pressure to clean up the country’s road network.

    Last month, Richard Holden, from the Department for Transport, revealed
    that just under 40% of National Highways roads were graded below B for litter, meaning significant levels of rubbish were found.

    Freda Rashdi, head of customer journeys at the National Highways, said: “Littering is a social problem across the country and we’re working hard to tackle it on our roads.

    “It includes using CCTV in A-road lay-bys to gather evidence to provide
    to local authorities, who can carry out enforcement.

    “We’re also carrying out a trial to understand how message signs resonate with drivers to reduce motorway littering.”

    The RAC last month said it fears the nation is reaching a "point of no return" due to uncollected litter piling up on the side of the roads.

    Steve Gooding, Director of the foundation, said: “In 1,000 years, we risk archaeologists digging up the past and identifying the 21st-century road network not by the buried tarmac but by the lines of litter that bordered it.”

    In March this year, 25 MPs signed a motion to raise awareness of
    littering on the motorways.

    The motion stated: “That this House deplores the huge amount of litter on motorways, access road, junctions and verges; notes that there is a
    crystal clear legal obligation on National Highways to ensure roads are
    kept clear of litter; and calls on National Highways to act on this obligation, use motorway gantries to promote anti-littering messaging,
    ensure staff and contractors remove signs, sandbags and cones following roadworks in a timely manner and ensure contracts include financial
    penalties for not doing so.”

    Drivers can report littering on the roads to National Highways.




    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 21 21:44:40 2023
    More than 13 million drivers are littering on Britain’s roads, risking fines and putting other drivers at risk, new research shows.

    UK drivers were polled by car leasing company Leasing Options on their attitudes to littering, with 35% admitting to throwing rubbish out of their car window.

    The results show younger drivers were the worst culprits, with a huge 64% of 18 to 24 year olds polled admitting to littering, compared to just 10% of drivers aged over 65.

    There were also huge regional differences exposed in the research, with drivers much more likely to litter in Scotland than England or Wales.

    More than half (52%) of motorists in Edinburgh and Glasgow admitted to throwing their rubbish out of the window, compared to 34% in London and 33% in Cardiff.

    The research also revealed that male drivers are more likely to litter than female drivers, with 41% of men polled confessing to dumping their rubbish, compared to 29% of women.

    New measures announced by the Government earlier this year could mean local councils will have the power to fine vehicle owners if litter is thrown from it as part of a nationwide effort to reduce the amount of rubbish on Britain’s major roads.

    Civil Enforcement Officers in London already have the power to issue a penalty charge notice if they have reason to believe litter was thrown from a vehicle and the Litter Strategy for England puts forward proposals to extend this to the rest of the
    country.

    Mike Thompson, Brand Manager at Leasing Options, said: “From the state of many roads and motorways across the country, it’s clear that penalties are not harsh enough to deter motorists from littering.

    “It’s concerning to see young drivers are the worst culprits for littering as these drivers are likely to be on the roads for many years to come.

    “Although it will always be difficult to identify those who throw litter from their cars, greater powers should be given to local councils to fine drivers to make them think twice before they drop rubbish out their window.”

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spike@21:1/5 to swldx...@gmail.com on Mon May 22 07:53:47 2023
    This is yet another report, that appears to have been written by an
    ignoramus who does not understand the difference between a ‘fine’ and a ‘penalty’.

    County Councils can not issue fines.

    Perhaps whoever wrote this rubbish should run it past an AI bot, unless it
    was produced by one - in which case it should have been reviewed by a human with a modicum of education.


    swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
    More than 13 million drivers are littering on Britain’s roads, risking fines and putting other drivers at risk, new research shows.

    UK drivers were polled by car leasing company Leasing Options on their attitudes to littering, with 35% admitting to throwing rubbish out of their car window.

    The results show younger drivers were the worst culprits, with a huge 64%
    of 18 to 24 year olds polled admitting to littering, compared to just 10%
    of drivers aged over 65.

    There were also huge regional differences exposed in the research, with drivers much more likely to litter in Scotland than England or Wales.

    More than half (52%) of motorists in Edinburgh and Glasgow admitted to throwing their rubbish out of the window, compared to 34% in London and 33% in Cardiff.

    The research also revealed that male drivers are more likely to litter
    than female drivers, with 41% of men polled confessing to dumping their rubbish, compared to 29% of women.

    New measures announced by the Government earlier this year could mean
    local councils will have the power to fine vehicle owners if litter is
    thrown from it as part of a nationwide effort to reduce the amount of
    rubbish on Britain’s major roads.

    Civil Enforcement Officers in London already have the power to issue a penalty charge notice if they have reason to believe litter was thrown
    from a vehicle and the Litter Strategy for England puts forward proposals
    to extend this to the rest of the country.

    Mike Thompson, Brand Manager at Leasing Options, said: “From the state of many roads and motorways across the country, it’s clear that penalties
    are not harsh enough to deter motorists from littering.

    “It’s concerning to see young drivers are the worst culprits for littering as these drivers are likely to be on the roads for many years to come.

    “Although it will always be difficult to identify those who throw litter from their cars, greater powers should be given to local councils to fine drivers to make them think twice before they drop rubbish out their window.”




    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From swldxer1958@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 22 02:14:47 2023
    A neighbourhood row exploded when a fast food delivery driver threw rubbish out of his car window, infuriating residents of a Derbyshire village.

    Mobile phone footage shown to a court captured the driver and resident involved in a foul-mouthed quarrel as the parties exchanged heated insults with each other in Hilton.

    During the argument, Abdul Anwar is told "pick it up you dirty b*****d, we live here, you don't, it's your rubbish, pick it up".

    On the short clip, the 43-year-old dad-of-two responds by getting out of his car, collecting the trash and trying to put it down a storm drain leading to a further confrontation.

    During that, as the male resident involved stands in front of the defendant's silver people carrier, Anwar drives it slowly forwards making connection with the victim.

    His solicitor told Southern Derbyshire Magistrates' Court : "It was a gesture rather than a deliberate attempt to cause injury.

    "There was an element of hostility and he perhaps lost his temper.

    "The incident is difficult to fathom but he acted in a completely out of character way."

    The hearing was told how the event took place in Marston Brook, Hilton, on May 6, last year.

    At the time Anwar, of Birmingham, was working as a delivery driver for a takeaway in nearby Hatton.

    Peter Bettany, prosecuting, said: "The defendant was parked up on a break and was seen to drop rubbish out of his car.

    "From there what happened is captured on mobile footage.

    "It shows the argument and then the defendant driving towards the man who is shouting at him and standing in front of his vehicle.

    "He later said he felt pain where contact was made.

    "The complainant was insistent the defendant picked up the rubbish which he did before shoving it down a drain and shouting 'f*** you, f*** off' and then driving away."

    Mr Bettany then showed the footage to the court.

    After Anwar is seen to drive off, one of the complainants shouts "you're a disgrace, get on your bike," to which the defendant shouts back "f*** off".

    Anwar, of Duddeston Manor Rad, Duddeston, failed to turn up for his court appearance and was found guilty of common assault and a public order offence in his absence.

    Magistrates fined him £297 and ordered him to pay £50 compensation, £100 costs and a £34 victim surcharge.

    They said: "This is all because you threw some rubbish out of your car."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)