Don't get caught out Brian. Talk Radio (and for that matter GB News
Radio) is DAB+ (DAB PLUS) but at different rates. Talk is 32 kilobits in stereo, GB News is 24 kilobits mono.

I have also noted that both stations (although more noticeably GB News)
seem to have some sort of muting system so that there is no noise
between speakers or between separate bits of the same speaker. It often
results in loss of the first syllable when the speaker starts talking
and the mute or whatever it is seems to have a relatively slow attack.

I don't notice any issues with grittiness as you report it, but could I
suggest that it may be something to do with distribution? We out here in
the frozen north seem to get clear quality - perhaps there is just too
much infrastructure or distribution noise in London?


On Sun 28/01/2024 17:26, Brian Gaff wrote:

I was just flipping through the stations on my DAB the other day, and was struck by an underlying grotty feel to many stations. I am speaking of the gritty sound that many, most often talk stations, Have now. Talk radio, to pick one at random, sounds like one of the lower quality long play modes on
a minidisc. AM was better in my view, assuming you were close to the transmitter. I'm just guessing that it is part of a reduction in bitrate or increase in errors inherent in the system.
Even music stations, be they plus or otherwise are not totally immune, but then I have no way to know what sort of encoding is in use.This distortion though, seems to also affect other outlets of the same station, as if they are all distributed in the worst possible system.

I just can't listen to the talk stations any more due to this gritiness. However its worse I think if you are an ethnic minority, as their stations even try to play music over it as well. Bah humbug.
Brian

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On 28/01/2024 20:22, Woody wrote:

I don't notice any issues with grittiness as you report it, but could I suggest that it may be something to do with distribution? We out here in
the frozen north seem to get clear quality - perhaps there is just too
much infrastructure or distribution noise in London?

I can't imagine the distribution degrading the quality?

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On 28/01/2024 20:28, JMB99 wrote:

On 28/01/2024 20:22, Woody wrote:

I don't notice any issues with grittiness as you report it, but could
I suggest that it may be something to do with distribution? We out
here in the frozen north seem to get clear quality - perhaps there is
just too much infrastructure or distribution noise in London?

I can't imagine the distribution degrading the quality?

Of course it doesn't, and the stations are encoded and muxed together centrally. So the quality is exactly the same whether you're using
Crystal Palace or Bressay.

It has to be that way, because muxes are SFNs

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On 29/01/2024 12:15, Mark Carver wrote:

On 28/01/2024 20:28, JMB99 wrote:

I can't imagine the distribution degrading the quality?

Of course it doesn't, and the stations are encoded and muxed together centrally. So the quality is exactly the same whether you're using
Crystal Palace or Bressay.

It has to be that way, because muxes are SFNs

Do all the stations use the same bit rate on all the transmitters?

I can see no technical reason for that to be the case, and in Brian
Gaff's area, there is a lot more demand for setting up a station than
there is here in the Black Country, which gives an excuse for dropping
the bit rates there.

It may also be the case that Brian has more sensitivity to audio
artifacts than many sighted people.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

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On 29/01/2024 13:00, John Williamson wrote:

On 29/01/2024 12:15, Mark Carver wrote:

On 28/01/2024 20:28, JMB99 wrote:

I can't imagine the distribution degrading the quality?

Of course it doesn't, and the stations are encoded and muxed together
centrally. So the quality is exactly the same whether you're using
Crystal Palace or Bressay.

It has to be that way, because muxes are SFNs

Do all the stations use the same bit rate on all the transmitters?

The same bit rate has to be used on all transmitters that carry the same
mux. In fact the entire encoded transport stream has to be IDENTICAL on
all transmitters, or else the SFN won't work.

If you're taking about the same station on different local muxes, then
that's a different matter, although taking a quick look on Wohnort, even
then the bit rates are the same (probably because the station only wants
to encode itself 'once')

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In message <l1pj7aFu98cU1@mid.individual.net> at Mon, 29 Jan 2024
12:15:30, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> writes

On 28/01/2024 20:28, JMB99 wrote:

On 28/01/2024 20:22, Woody wrote:

I don't notice any issues with grittiness as you report it, but
could I suggest that it may be something to do with distribution? We
out here in the frozen north seem to get clear quality - perhaps
there is just too much infrastructure or distribution noise in London?

I can't imagine the distribution degrading the quality?

Of course it doesn't, and the stations are encoded and muxed together >centrally. So the quality is exactly the same whether you're using
Crystal Palace or Bressay.

It has to be that way, because muxes are SFNs

By "distribution noise", I think Woody meant noise from _other_
distribution networks - such as the mains electricity supply - rather
than the one the listener is trying to receive. In other words, signal degradation, not coding errors in the first place.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I'm too lazy to have a bigger ego. - James May, RT 2016/1/23-29

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On 29/01/2024 18:08, Pamela wrote:

I have also noted that both stations (although more noticeably GB
News) seem to have some sort of muting system so that there is no
noise between speakers or between separate bits of the same speaker.
It often results in loss of the first syllable when the speaker starts talking and the mute or whatever it is seems to have a relatively slow attack.

Isn't that common with automated presenter operated sources?

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In message <upa7dn$t0j9$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:47,
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> writes

On 29/01/2024 18:08, Pamela wrote:

I have also noted that both stations (although more noticeably GB
News) seem to have some sort of muting system so that there is no
noise between speakers or between separate bits of the same speaker.
It often results in loss of the first syllable when the speaker starts
talking and the mute or whatever it is seems to have a relatively slow
attack.

Isn't that common with automated presenter operated sources?

AGC to mute background noise when the speaker is not speaking has been
around for decades; however, you'd think that today it would be trivial
to insert a slight delay - half a second ought to be more than enough in
most cases - so that the chopping-off-of-the-first-syllable that Pamela
has noticed could be avoided. Could be either at the presenter end or
the studio end. But obviously isn't being done.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Grammar is there to help, not hinder."
-- Mark Wallace, APIHNA, 2nd December 2000 (quoted by John Flynn 2000-12-6)

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On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:18:01 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

On 29/01/2024 13:00, John Williamson wrote:

On 29/01/2024 12:15, Mark Carver wrote:

On 28/01/2024 20:28, JMB99 wrote:

I can't imagine the distribution degrading the quality?

Of course it doesn't, and the stations are encoded and muxed together
centrally. So the quality is exactly the same whether you're using
Crystal Palace or Bressay.

It has to be that way, because muxes are SFNs

Do all the stations use the same bit rate on all the transmitters?

The same bit rate has to be used on all transmitters that carry the same
mux. In fact the entire encoded transport stream has to be IDENTICAL on
all transmitters, or else the SFN won't work.

If you're taking about the same station on different local muxes, then
that's a different matter, although taking a quick look on Wohnort, even
then the bit rates are the same (probably because the station only wants
to encode itself 'once')

Until very recently Gold in London was 40 kbps and Gold UK was 32
kbps. Now they seem to be equalised.

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"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message news:S7+ukbbjkNulFwOv@255soft.uk...

In message <upa7dn$t0j9$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:47,
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> writes

On 29/01/2024 18:08, Pamela wrote:

I have also noted that both stations (although more noticeably GB
News) seem to have some sort of muting system so that there is no
noise between speakers or between separate bits of the same speaker.
It often results in loss of the first syllable when the speaker starts
talking and the mute or whatever it is seems to have a relatively slow
attack.

Isn't that common with automated presenter operated sources?

AGC to mute background noise when the speaker is not speaking has been
around for decades; however, you'd think that today it would be trivial to insert a slight delay - half a second ought to be more than enough in most cases - so that the chopping-off-of-the-first-syllable that Pamela has noticed could be avoided. Could be either at the presenter end or the
studio end. But obviously isn't being done.

Almost as bad is when AGC mutes significant background noise in a drama,
where the noise is ambient sound (eg birdsong, traffic noise) which is
*wanted* to give atmosphere. There is an episode of Inspector Morse that was fine on its original ITV broadcast but every time it is shown on ITV3 the
sound is very poor (maybe ITV3's copy was badly copied from the master) and
the background noise in some exterior scenes pulsates every time anyone
speaks - you see the characters walking along talking, and there is absolute silence except when someone speaks when you suddenly get a blast of birdsong
as well which is not there when no-one is talking - very unnerving.

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